Setup, Timing, and Execution of the Nervous/Popping Grunt!

[WapitiTalk1]

Elk don’t always come in to calling in the classic upwind fashion (nose to the wind) but oftentimes they do (they rely on their snouts as much as their eyesight to figure out what’s making that challenging or seductive sound in their neighborhood). They also don’t always come in screaming their heads off, in fact, a good portion of the time depending on many factors (including the stage of the rut, hunting pressure, predator pressure, etc.), they ninja in and are on top of you before you get a chance to react accordingly (caller or shooter), particularly, when you drop your guard. Let’s talk about setups and timing of the nervous/popping grunt to maximize your shot opportunities. Let’s say the caller, is set up around 40 yards from where the elk stands now and the shooter, is right at 25 yards from where the bull stands (both caller/shooter sitting in the direction of their arrows). This bull was silent coming in but the caller was on his game (using both his ears and eyes) and ID’ed Bullwinkle as he ninjaed in. The caller also gave his shooter a hand signal that the bull was coming in a few seconds before he threw out a popping grunt (the shooter could not see the approach route of the bull from his position). NOW, at this point in time…. The bull stops in his tracks from the grunt and the shooter draws and……………………….
OK, let’s discuss this..
1. Was the setup staged correctly considering the wind direction and strategic positioning of the caller/shooter?
2. Was the nervous/popping grunt (used to stop an elk his tracks/demands a positive ID), used at the appropriate time to stop the bull?
3. Lastly of course, as the shooter, are you shooting?

If you're shooting, save the picture to your desktop and open in MS Paint, then place a spot, X, or whatever on the critter before you save it back to a jpg or png and add the marked up pic with your post.

[ElkNut1]

With a decent setup the shooter generally sees or hears an elk's approach first. A good setup is determined by the structure of terrain & where the elk is (by sound or sight) previous to choosing a good setup. Too, the caller in a tag team situation should avoid in nearly every situation to stop the elk for the shooter. The shooter sees his shooting lanes best & generally knows when to draw his bow & when not too. If the caller stops this oncoming elk prematurely it could alert the elk while the shooter has no shot or is nor ready with bow drawn. The caller may feel he's stopped the elk in a great spot from his position but there could be things blocking the shooter from a clear opening & that's why he hasn't stopped him himself yet! I've been guilty of this very act as the caller! (grin)

ElkNut1

[Lefty]

makes a great shot!!


I had a similar situation with a down wind buck two years ago,.. side stepping for a more clear shot and the buck turned and trotted off.

We wont know the answers.
The tree appears close enough for a clear arrow flight.
But is the bulls overwhelming desire to find a rival or lady friend more important than that nasty stink of a human? Is he alert? or just anxious, but in all likely ready to book it, at 25 I would take it if it felt right,.. at 40 he gets a pass

[Dr. Rx]

Rory.. your first question "was the setup staged correctly considering the wind direction" and I just want to make sure if the caller and shooter are downwind or upwind of the elk?

If they are up wind, I don't like the fact the the caller is right in the flight of the elk's wheel house of scent...

If they are downwind, I would have liked the caller to be so that the wind came off the callers cheeks rather than his face and set the shooter off 15-25 yards downwind

but like you said the elk came in silent.. so you may not have had a chance to set up...

Which brings the point that before you set your pack down... be at 90 degrees to the wind...

Just my 2 cents


Kris

[>>>---WW---->]

Shoot him NOW! He needs to be taken out of the gene pool. This elk is either just plain stupid or has a bad cold and can't smell. According to the arrows on the picture, he has already walked past the scent line of the shooter and has just entered the scent line of the caller.

Reverse the wind arrow and you have a slam dunk. The nervous bark will stop him in his tracks for the shot.

[WapitiTalk1]

Allrighty, let's take this a step further. When you set up for a cold calling, advertising, or breeding sequence setup.... how do you set up considering the prevailing wind? Unless you're close to known herd bull with cows, aren't you gonna set up so anything coming into your calls will be circling to get your wind? Now if you've moved in on a herd bull with cows, knowing that eyes and noses are already on full alert to danger from predators (including stinky hunters) are you gonna set up the same as you would as mentioned above? Keep it going folks, this topic is worthy of further discussion!

[ElkNut1]

First off, yes, I'd shoot that bull where he stands now! 2nd, not sure why the caller/shooter are setup with wind at their backs per say? Did this bull in photo bugle to let them know of his where abouts? If so weird setup with bad wind. Maybe this was another bull & caught hunters by surprise & showed from no where?

As far as recent question I find it is rare for a bull or cows to come in downwind in a calling situation. I would guesstimate that for every 25 bulls called in 2 come in downwind but still within bow range. Most elk come basically straight to our calling. We rarely use Blind/Cold calling sequences these days so as to avoid cows & spikes showing first & blowing our cover as they approach in search mode for the elk they heard. The biggest reason I've noticed over the years for elk to either hang-up or come in downwind is suspicion! They feel something isn't right or they've gotten to a spot where they should see something physical & do not, thus raising suspicion & now rely on their trusty snouts to detect possible danger because of us, this right here can produce an uneasiness within them & start circling, remove that from the equation & you'll find nearly every elk will come straight to your calling when calling is needed!

ElkNut1

[>>>---WW---->]

Good post Elknut! Also, for those elk that are suspicious and choose to circle, it is a good idea to keep a close eye off to both sides in order to catch them before they get down wind. Silent calling or cold calling is a great tool for two hunters. One watching the front door and the other several yards away watching the back. But as always, the wind can be your best friend or your worse enemy!

[WapitiTalk1]

Ya, I know I don't always offer/explain these scenarios crystal clear, and, oftentimes throw in some info that may or may not ring true in an effort to spark some elky discussion. In a true cold calling setup (trolling for unknown elk so to speak, in an area that we honestly don't if there are elk within earshot), a setup as shown in the picture isn't a bad course of action. I've found that elk will oftentimes come in as shown in the image, particularly in the early part of the rut during herding up activity when there isn't a lot of vocalization going on, and, they oftentimes come in quiet as a mouse with their snouts leading the way. For the majority of setups though, hunters "should" set up with the wind in their favor. The caller/hunter setup in the image, considering the prevailing wind, is certainly not the best . That said, I offer the following considering the initial post questions:

1. Was the setup staged correctly considering the wind direction and strategic positioning of the caller/shooter? Not really in the classic sense although this type of directional setup may be used in a true cold calling setup with success.
2. Was the nervous/popping grunt (used to stop an elk his tracks/demands a positive ID), used at the appropriate time to stop the bull? Ya, pretty much but the nervous grunt/bark was given perhaps a mili-second too early (by whoever, caller or shooter, saw the elk come into the shooting lane).
3. Lastly of course, as the shooter, are you shooting? Yep, how does this spot look to you folks?

Stop%20mark%20up.png (843.14 KiB) Viewed 5384 times

[Swede]

RJ, your shot placement looks perfect. I would shoot whenever the elk presents me an opportunity. If the bull comes in downwind, for whatever reason, it is too late to worry about that now. Stop the bull immediately here and shoot. We will analyze over coffee in December.

[ElkNut1]

WW, thanks! Good points about keeping your head on a swivel watching for the silent ones!

As far as shot on photo I would be more comfortable shooting 3"-4" to the right of the red X.

ElkNut1