A wapiti in the hand is worth......

[WapitiTalk1]

Scenario: 22 September. The day before yesterday, you got into a very nice (vocal) bull with a handful of cows and two satellites (very vocal upstarts). You worked in close, had the wind after you stalled and waited for it to switch so your shooter would have the advantage, to make a play at the herd bull. You sent your partner down and across the last 120 yards of the steep little ID alder draw to try to shoot this honker. You follow your partner part way, stop, and commence to really make a scene using both verbal and non-verbal elk noises (moving left to right, down, up, and back down towards the bull). Your buddy drew back several times on the big 6 point but due to alder hell, he didn't touch off an arrow. The bull dislodged from his cows several times and your partner, staying mobile, was set up in a few spots as best he could in the jungle, had some close calls, but again, no shot. You decide to let this area rest a few days as you have others to hunt but this morning, you're back after the big boy.

Back to today, you head out across, near the top, of a very large, very steep draw to try and meet up with the big guy once again. After 1/2 mile on the trail (orange lines) you hear and see a smaller 4 point screaming his head off and pawing the ground at the spot below you I put the yellow X (little bull). I have called these little bare ridge, benchy spots "bugle points" over the years as I've heard and seen many satellites singing their guts out trying to locate other elk (and advertise their elkness) from them. Thermals are still going down (it's barely daylight).. and your scent is obviously too far above the small bull for him to detect. Here's my question. Do you break off from your original plan to go another 1 1/4 miles on the side hill pack trail and try your hand at the big guy, or, is this "bull in the hand" too tempting to not go after? No right or wrong answers here folks, just stimulating some elky conversation. What would you do (true story by the way)....?

Additional information: Bull only area.

[ORelksniper]

I never pass on a legal elk. I'm going after the little guy.

[olympushunt]

Uhhhh.....is it to greedy to dump the silly over active 4 (as you said just breakin light) then return to bidness and go take down Mr. Big? That's my choice. If the 4 is all sorts of bent he should ripe for aggressively pursuing him. If it fails...oh well. But if it works.... Then I split off hoping to get my buddy to join up later after he at least skinned and got the quarters off the 4pt. Maybe I'm just greedy. I say kill both!

[WapitiTalk1]

You may think the area is "pretty open" by the SAT image. Not so. It is very steep (as shown by the 40' contour lines), and, almost anything with vegetation showing is 15' high alder hell, and, waste deep huckleberry brush. Now, with this additional information let's continue with our regularly scheduled program .......

Choices2.png (1.04 MiB) Viewed 12062 times

[Swede]

If I see and hear a 4 point, I am going after him. That other bull may or may not be there and I don't care. If the 4 point is down, then I'm with Oly. Is there a hurry on the herd bull? Maybe we both skin and gut the 4X4 then both go after the herd bull. If my partner shot the herd bull, he should be set to call now.

[Roosiebull]

going after Mr 4 point, better chance to look good as the caller

[>>>---WW---->]

I'm going for the big guy. Only 140' climb to him. The 4 pt. appears to be over 400 foot climb. In this case, good old topo trumps aireal photo.

By the way, RJ. What does the little yellow dot below the big bull represent?

[N2mywake]

I don't pass a legal bull (especially when i'm the caller ), since it's early and the thermals are falling I try to see if I can get a gameplan to get down on his level (since i'm above him already I may try to pass on by and then drop), you're going to have to drop before the big guy anyhow right?

[WapitiTalk1]

I'm going for the big guy. By the way, RJ. What does the little yellow dot below the big bull represent?

Bill, that was a reference point I marked on the map to help me plot the ballpark game trail in. The yellow dot is actually a natural mineral lick.

[Swede]

Bill if you head uphill you are going the wrong direction for either bull. The pack out could be terrible for the small bull in a wet Alder choked area. I estimated the that bull is 600 feet below the trail. If he goes downhill after being shot, who knows what the pack would be.

[saddlesore]

I never pass up a legal elk generally. Two times in my life I did. One was a guided elk hunt in Alberta, and the other was when I pulled a tag for unit 201 in CO that took me 21 years to draw.

[WapitiTalk1]

Ok, before you left in the dark, you could hear the big bull and a few satellites spouting off right below where the big bull marker is (about a mile across the huge draw as the crow flies). From your knowledge of the big guy, you're pretty sure he'll move due E into a small, thick, steep draw to bed right after sunrise. IF you're able to drop down and get a lethal arrow in the four point, the terrain below him is very steep and drops a mile to the bottom with no pack out ability that way, only back up to the game trail you're standing on. Does this info affect anybody's game plan this fine morning?

[Swede]

Ya, it is a very marginal situation as it is, unless you and Larry will go fetch my bull and bring it back to camp for me. I will have dinner waiting for you. Promise.

Really I don't like the sound of this situation. Lets go find another bull. Is a drive by shooting an option?

[WapitiTalk1]

Ya, it is a very marginal situation as it is, unless you and Larry will go fetch my bull and bring it back to camp for me. I will have dinner waiting for you. Promise.

Really I don't like the sound of this situation. Lets go find another bull. Is a drive by shooting an option?

Only for Blue Grouse . Oh, that reminds me...we need to bring a few cans of cream of mushroom soup for the grouse meal.

[Swede]

RJ, is that 4x4 the smallest bull you can find? Blue grouse are great and I think I can pack one out of most holes I get myself into.

[Roosiebull]

Bill if you head uphill you are going the wrong direction for either bull. The pack out could be terrible for the small bull in a wet Alder choked area. I estimated the that bull is 600 feet below the trail. If he goes downhill after being shot, who knows what the pack would be.

at least he's smaller

so am I understanding this correct? the small bull is 600 ft below you, and the big bull is another mile? I would rather pack 800 ft vertical than a mile and however the big bull runs downhill to get back to where you are standing...plus, I don't care, i'm the caller, so my buddy will be packing the hind quarters

I would still swing down and make a run at the small bull, if it doesn't work, I would go ruin the big bulls nap time....and how these things work out, we don't exactly have the choice to go kill that bull, in reality, we can try....historically, I mess it up more than I get it right....those are just 2 bulls to go after, hard to say how many it will take to kill one...after all, we are still hunting on the 22nd....

[DBLGBL]

I don't know about you guys but I wouldn't share camp with a guy who mixes Blue Grouse and canned soup......

[Tigger]

So this really boils down to big unknown-activity-level bull vs little worked-up bull that is also a tougher pack out. Damn you Rory! I don't know! I can't make up my mind! Am I the shooter or the caller? that would play into it as if I am the caller, then it is his decision. I guess if you make me choose, I would go with the hot bull. Dang tough call though.

[>>>---WW---->]

Bill if you head uphill you are going the wrong direction for either bull. The pack out could be terrible for the small bull in a wet Alder choked area. I estimated the that bull is 600 feet below the trail. If he goes downhill after being shot, who knows what the pack would be.

OOPS! I looked at it up side down. Either way, I'd still go for the big bull. He is basically on the same contour as the trail you are on. And most likely, that trail would be the easiest way to pack out. Also, the thermals would be more in your favor for the big guy. At least, you could get much closer to him before you had to make a swing to get the wind right.

[WapitiTalk1]

I don't know about you guys but I wouldn't share camp with a guy who mixes Blue Grouse and canned soup......

You're missing out if you haven't tried this at camp. Filet a couple of grouse breasts, dip em in flour and put in deep skillet with a bit of olive oil, salt/pepper, brown all sides well, pour in 2 small cans of cream of mushroom soup (and a bit of water or milk), let that cook for 30-40 minutes, serve with rice or taters (the CoM soup makes an excellent gravy for the rice/tatos).

[Swede]

Blue grouse and mushroom soup should be great. After packing out a bull, I have a hard time thinking of something I would enjoy more.

[Charina]

I'm analyzing this as if I'm solo, since that's how I hunt. Otherwise, I'd more likely than not ro acquiesce to my buddy if he had any strong feelings.

I'm going for the little bull. As big boy is headed downwind into a draw just after sunrise, I don't see my position as being favorable for getting to him prior to thermal shift (presuming that it's a sunny day without prevailing winds). The advantage I see to pushing forward another mile is to keep tabs on him as he heads to bed. If, as it seems from the description, I have a fairly decent idea where bed is, then I've got all mid-day to go after him if the little bull doesn't pan out.

Now, I've never been in this "alder hell" spoken of, but I suppose its similar to 12-15 ft young aspen patches I've found myself trapped in a few times. Wife now refuses to follow me into such a patch EVER again. My arm-chair play is to head down to the open patches on the same level as, but to the WSW of the little bull, and cow call from there. I'm thinking he just might be willing to move over if he hears a lonely available cow. Perhaps a cow call or two as I'm making my way down, thinking I'm not going to be quiet getting there, but the real passionate calling wouldn't start until I find a good setup - presumably near that open spot I can see on the satellite image.

[Swede]

Thick Alder is horrible. Some of it grows up, some grows sideways and there is everything in between. There is fairly large Alder, some twigs and everything in between. A sea of Alder is nothing to trifle with. Throw a full meat pack on your back, some Devils club, and a 700 foot vertical climb and you have the makings of serious problem.

[Charina]

So, you are saying, no one in their sane mind goes after the 4pt because of vegetative barriers? Where's the fun in scenario consideration in that? I've busted through some pretty nasty shaspen regrowths and scrub foak brush, and have literal scars to show for it. I'm game to dive in and make my way through if there's a ready-to-be-killed bull on the other side. Remember Rory's recent bad-a bunny thread? A few decades back, dad and I didn't have dogs to flush the bunnies for the hawks. We were the flushers. And I suppose you know what the briar patches in W. OR are like. 5-6 ft tall, 30 ft wide, 60 ft long, and tons of sharp piercing thorns. Didn't stop me. Just needed two pairs of jeans, welders gloves, and a needle/tweezers later in the evening. More drive than sensibility at times.

[Cbb]

I'm going to say I would go after the 4pt. Can't pass up a bull that wants to die. If I have to just about kill myself gettimg him out so be it. I'm not going for a trophy, Im going to hunt and kill an elk. First legal bull within range is getting it!!

[DBLGBL]

What swede said! Any food is great after packing a bull out!

2GBL

[saddlesore]

So, you are saying, no one in their sane mind goes after the 4pt because of vegetative barriers? Where's the fun in scenario consideration in that? I've busted through some pretty nasty shaspen regrowths and scrub foak brush, and have literal scars to show for it. I'm game to dive in and make my way through if there's a ready-to-be-killed bull on the other side. Remember Rory's recent bad-a bunny thread? A few decades back, dad and I didn't have dogs to flush the bunnies for the hawks. We were the flushers. And I suppose you know what the briar patches in W. OR are like. 5-6 ft tall, 30 ft wide, 60 ft long, and tons of sharp piercing thorns. Didn't stop me. Just needed two pairs of jeans, welders gloves, and a needle/tweezers later in the evening. More drive than sensibility at times.

Little different story when you look down into a hole where the elk are and it is 500-800 down with a 80% slope,or the blow down is so thick,you walk100 yards without touching the ground. Age does give so wisdom so you don't do that kind of stuff any more.

[Lefty]

I'm going to say I would go after the 4pt. Can't pass up a bull that wants to die. If I have to just about kill myself gettig him out so be it. I'm not going for a trophy, Im going to hunt and kill an elk. First legal bull within range is getting it!!

Those that Ive hunted with will kill a 4 point.

I would let my daughter chose which elk,.. She has the same arrogance and optimism as her dad Were going after the big boy first

Me. If dummy 4x4 gives me the easy shot,..Ill take it
Otherwise I have another Saturday to hunt

For me Its a lot about the hunt I"ll fill the freezer one way or another. Big bull, rifle deer or geese,.

[Swede]

So, you are saying, no one in their sane mind goes after the 4pt because of vegetative barriers?

This is the 4th time I started to reply to the excellent post of Charina's, but my internet service has been going down. Hopefully it is up for a little longer than before. I agree with what Saddlesore wrote. The problem I have is that I am crazy enough to go after a bull if there is any reasonable expectation I can get it out. I figure I have a year to heal up after the pack out. At Saddlesore's and my age we have to think things through pretty well before we shoot. There is no point in going after one if you can't be sure you can retrieve it. That is where RJ can come in handy if I am in his territory.

[saddlesore]

I gave up hunting in this type of mess a longtime ago. This was the last time I carried an elk out of that stuff.