Scoring Bulls in The Field

[dogboss]

Does anyone know of a system or helpful process to estimate antler score in the field on live bulls. The whitetail guys have gotten some pretty accurate rules of thumb.

[Swede]

The best system I have is to listen to hunters tell me the score of an elk they saw and subtract 50 to 70+ points depending on the teller. Newer hunter reduce 70 points-- older hunter reduce the score 50 points.
It is a big bull if the brow tines are as long as the nose. It is also a big bull if the royal tines are long, and the thirds are too. It is not big if the whale tail ends look like crab pinchers.

[Swede]

Dogboss welcome to the forum. I just noticed this thread was your first post. It is good to have you in camp. I don't know if I helped answer your question. I am sure there are more ways to get a handle on the size of a trophy, but that has been my experience. Keep posting. It is good to have you in the W.T. camp.

[saddlesore]

If the 4th point looks over 20 inches long and the main beams extend back to the end of the loins, you'd best kill it Unless it is a freak that elk will surpass 325 at least and probably be closer to 350

[dogboss]

Thanks for the welcome. Been a fan of Elknut for several years and I've followed these posts for a long time. Never been real particular about 6pts before (I've only killed one) but I drew a good unit and hope to have the opportunity to evaluate a few good bulls.
Thanks for the info too!

[Swede]

Mike Eastman wrote a book, Elk Hunting The West, The Eastman Way. There is a chapter called Quick & Easy Field Judging. The book is good as well as that chapter.

[Roosiebull]

I don't have anything useful to add (my judging of bulls consists of...does it have more than 1 point on each side?) some days one on each side is good enough

I do want to wish you luck on your hunt, and hope to read about the details here when it happens.

[saddlesore]

I don't have anything useful to add (my judging of bulls consists of...does it have more than 1 point on each side?) some days one on each side is good enough

I do want to wish you luck on your hunt, and hope to read about the details here when it happens.

Mine usually are 4 pointers,but they hang down between the back legs

[Rangerz]

Give this a try

https://gothunts.com/field-judging-elk/

[Indian Summer]

To help you out as much as I can how about telling me what size bull you are hoping for? What is the top end potential for the area? If you are thinking 300 minimum it's one thing. But if you draw the line at say 320 or better I'll give you a different answer.

Welcome aboard brother!!!

[TimeOnTarget]

To help you out as much as I can how about telling me what size bull you are hoping for? What is the top end potential for the area? If you are thinking 300 minimum it's one thing. But if you draw the line at say 320 or better I'll give you a different answer.

Welcome aboard brother!!!

Well since DogBoss hasnt came back to answer your question lets say i want a 300" bull. What am i looking for?


Now lets say I want a 340 or better bull. What am i looking for.

Do you have pictures of examples of each that i can use for reference to your response?

[Indian Summer]

For comparison I'll start with a bull that just makes the Pope and Young minimum. This bull nets 260 3/8. To concur with Swede's comments I used to take this bull to outdoor shows when booking hunting clients. A few hundred guys pointed at it and said "Id be happy if I could shoot a 300 incher like that". Deer hunters who are unaccustomed to elk antlers always seem to over estimate them. In this case commonly by 40 inches. They would be shocked to learn that it doesn't even come close to the magic 300 inch mark but very happy to know that is it is a realistic goal for a first time elk hunter.

There is nothing that stands out on this bull but if you look at it from top to bottom it doesn't lack anywhere. It actually has just a bit of everything. The 4ths 5ths and 6ths are nothing to write home about but it doesn't fall short in the front end. For it's size it has very respectable 3rds. I've seen monster bulls with stubby 3rd points. The 4ths are about a foot long which is easy for most guys to field judge. The 2nds are about the same length which is awesome and the 1st brow tines are a good 10 inches or so. The 5th and 6ths aren't big at all but an indicator that it is a mature bull so you can expect decent beam length, mass and spread. There is such a thing as a "raghorn 6 point" but most representative 6 point bulls will go 260 inches.

[Indian Summer]

For all practical purposes this is a 300 inch bull. It actually goes about 295 but it fell short in the very back end. it might have not scored even that well but for it's size it has exceptional 4th points. The average to fairly consistent elk hunter will say "shooter" the second he lays eyes on a 300 inch bull. At a glance you realize it is a 6 point bull but it doesn't bring the word monster to mind. But if you really want a 300 inch bull you best make sure the front end has what it takes. This is a good piece of advice when judging any bull because it doesn't take a rocket scientist or the worlds best spotting scope to see that a bull has good 4ths 5ths and 6ths. Those points are the obvious ones. This bull is actually a bit short on overall beam length but makes up for it with those 4ths as well as pretty good mass throughout. Again the 4ths and 2nds are very similar in length at about 15 inches. The thirds aren't lacking at all. if it had just a bit more going on in the 5ths/6ths it would have been around 305 or so. A good rule of thumb for 300 inchers is that the 5th and 6th should be about half the length of the 4ths. And as always no stubby brow tines which is the demise of most score sheets in my opinion. I'd shoot this bull on public land with a general license every year with no complaints.

[Indian Summer]

This guy goes 321 and change. It's probably not the best bull to depict a 320 incher because it has shorter 5ths and 6ths than most 320s but way bigger 3rds to make up for that. A 320 incher will make any public land hunter even with experience mumble "shooter". It has some very noticeably lengthy 4th points. Again if it weren't for the thirds this bull would need 5th and 6th points to be half the length of the 4th. But instead this bad boy has 3rds that are nearly as long as the 4ths which is very unusual. His brows are average for his size. I've seen bulls this big with stubby brows but at a glance you can see he doesn't lack in that area. So again.... he is a solid representative 6 point bull, much larger than that 260 obviously and the difference between him and a 300 is obvious. At a half mile a guy wouldn't have to even use binoculars to know it was a good bull whereas that 295 bull above would take some glassing to make that call at that distance. The other thing about a 320 bull is the beam length. A side view will tell you he is definitely above and beyond a 300 incher because his rack ends further back above the front of his rump. If I see a bull like that on public land I will do anything I have to including wait a day to get a shot at him. He is a nice big bull but again.... he doesn't make an experienced elknut yell "monster!!!".

[Indian Summer]

To answer your question this is a 340 bull. He will make most guys blurt our the word monster unless you are in a draw area where bulls like this aren't a big surprise. But you won't be. He has it all really. Right off the bat you notice a solid back end or "whale tail" that not only has well established 5th and 6th point length BUT they also have good mass. A 340 plus bull with have to have some heavy horns from top to bottom. The 4ths on a monster bull might not stand out as overly lengthy but that's because they are usually very heavy or even bladed. The 3rds jump right out at you being not only decent in length but also in mass. I wouldn't spend to much time dwelling on the brow tines if a bull has that much to look at from the 4ths back but I would glance at them to make sure they aren't lacking somehow if making 330 or 340 is where you are drawing the line. If I see this bull on public land in a general license area I will call my boss and wife and tell them my return date is up in the air!

[Elkhunttoo]

I would only change one thing Indian summer said, I think not only do deer hunters misjudge elk but I always hear elk hunters talk about the 350 bull they saw. I think most elk hunters misjudge by around 40 inches too. Some are really good at judging but I think most guys just throw out big numbers. We find lots of elk sheds and there just aren't to many bull after years of sheds that go much over 350, in our area anyway. Yet we run into hunters every year that see "350" bulls.

Another thing to think about when field judging, several years ago my cousin and uncle both killed big bulls. One scored 338, and the other was just over 340. Yet when holding them side by side you would of shot the 338 bull every time, mass and width made him look way bigger then the other bull yet he was just a little shorter in tine length on almost every point. Just some thing to think about.

One last thought.... I have a friend that is a good hunter, a few years ago he and I both killed small 6 point bulls, I scored mine at 250 and went over to look at his. His bull was quite a bit smaller than mine, I asked him what it scored and he said they taped it out at 280. ... when we got back in the car my wife asked how his scored so much bigger then mine, I told her it didn't, and there was no way his bull was over 240 (when he saw my bull he thought it was close to 300 and had a puzzled look when I told him 250) I finally got to tape his out last year and it was 233. Some guys that are really good hunters just don't have much experience with judging or taping. I know I have learned a lot on the subject in the last ten years and I use to always miss judge.

[Elkhunttoo]

Great pictures and break downs Indian summer

[Roosiebull]

To answer your question this is a 340 bull. He will make most guys blurt our the word monster unless you are in a draw area where bulls like this aren't a big surprise. But you won't be. He has it all really. Right off the bat you notice a solid back end or "whale tail" that not only has well established 5th and 6th point length BUT they also have good mass. A 340 plus bull with have to have some heavy horns from top to bottom. The 4ths on a monster bull might not stand out as overly lengthy but that's because they are usually very heavy or even bladed. The 3rds jump right out at you being not only decent in length but also in mass. I wouldn't spend to much time dwelling on the brow tines if a bull has that much to look at from the 4ths back but I would glance at them to make sure they aren't lacking somehow if making 330 or 340 is where you are drawing the line. If I see this bull on public land in a general license area I will call my boss and wife and tell them my return date is up in the air!

if I find a 340" bull on the coast, I will call my boss and tell him "see you in October"

[TimeOnTarget]

Thanks for the response with those great pictures.
I'm that deer hunter you speak of for sure. I can judge a whitetail within a few inches usually. But elk, HA! they're all 300+ to me

For all practical purposes, at this point, give me a 6x6 of any sort and ill be smiles ear to ear.....for days.

Judging from the pictures, I've got about a 265ish as my biggest (and only) bull so far.

Thanks again Indian Summer!

[Old school]

Joe - Thanks for the pictures and explanation to go with them. I've got a 6x6 that I shot a few years ago in Montana and I've always guessed it to be right around 250". I may post up a pic and see what you think.

--Mitch

[saddlesore]

Here is a bull I killed in 2009 in a trophy area 201,CO that tooks 21 points to get.

I know guys will tell me that it is BS, but I measured this bull twice and got 343, 341. Another friend measured it and got about the same. When I first saw it, I could only see that one long beam as everything else was beyond the brow of a hill.



That is n 8 ft wall and his brisket is 27 " from the floor and the antler on the right is 3 " from the ceiling. You can't
see the 6th and 7th point on that antler because of the angle of the photo


The bull on the wall to the left of this one was killed in Alberta and the guides measured it as 290.I think they were trying to make me feel good since I paid them for the hunt, as I think it is considerable less.

[cohunter]

The bull in the profile pic is 290 1/8 gross, 276 even net. I know... he looks bigger, but his tine length is really not all that stellar - makes a big difference.

The bull in the post here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8004 is 251 7/8 gross and 240 4/8 net. It's got a heavy, narrow 5x5 frame. The crazy thing to me is if each point were only one inch longer, he'd make the Pope and Young minimum. But the way the scoring system rewards even-ness, if every point were as long as the longest on one side or the other (both 1sts as long as the longest 1st for example) he'd score 263 3/8 - the Pope and Young minimum... the point? Be super-critical of weaknesses if you're really chasing a score. Weaknesses can really ding ya!

[Roosiebull]

some very good comparison pics guys!

[TimeOnTarget]

The bull in the profile pic is 290 1/8 gross, 276 even net. I know... he looks bigger, but his tine length is really not all that stellar - makes a big difference.

The bull in the post here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8004 is 251 7/8 gross and 240 4/8 net. It's got a heavy, narrow 5x5 frame. The crazy thing to me is if each point were only one inch longer, he'd make the Pope and Young minimum. But the way the scoring system rewards even-ness, if every point were as long as the longest on one side or the other (both 1sts as long as the longest 1st for example) he'd score 263 3/8 - the Pope and Young minimum... the point? Be super-critical of weaknesses if you're really chasing a score. Weaknesses can really ding ya!

Excellent point! I use gross score for my purposes, Nets are for fishing!!!

[Old school]

Ok - I'm going to attach a couple pictures of a bull I killed in Montana a few years back. I've never scored an elk and I figured he was 240-250. What do you guys with scoring experience think?

--Mitch

IMG_1696p.jpg (161.49 KiB) Viewed 21361 times

IMG_1695p.jpg (102.75 KiB) Viewed 21361 times

[Swede]

Mitch, I think you might be just a shade on the low side with your 240 score. I would guess 250-255. You have a nice bull and worthy of mounting.

[Elkhunttoo]

I would say right in the 250 range too.