Props to Paul! [and a confession of failure]

[wrkg4gd]

So I have to say -- the ElkNut field guide helped me get way ahead of the learning curve and call in a bull that I gathered (from my theoretical knowledge based on Paul's guru-like education) was hung up with his own small harem. The rest of the story is anticlimatic, but the first half was exhilirating:

In the military, i'm sorta new to this area and unfamiliar with the lay of the land. It was toward the end of day three of early archery (WA). About 1800+. I let go with one last bugle before beginning our tactical withdrawal, but a faint answer comes back -- I guess about 1000 yards away; turned out to be closer to 1500. We begin pushing down an old CAT trail through thick SW Washington foliage toward the too-perfect bugle-with-chuckles. Both of us think may be a hunter screwing with us. We press forward about a half mile down a ridge when the timber ends at a large section of tall grass. The bull sounds like he's moving away a little -- bugling but not budging. I begin with the pleading cow routine, a la "ElkNut's Playbook." Then I put on my best "I'm a bull over here stealing your hot girlfriend that you don't have the man parts to rescue" routine. That did it. A nice herd bull starts raking all sorts of stuff and comes at me bugling. This is a first for me. Absolutely exhilarating. And I'm thinking "no way i would have thought to do this without that field guide!"

So, FIRST -- huge props to Paul! Thanks for making this novice hunter successful. Awesome field guide, brother.

Unfortunately, now comes the 'rest of the story'. Stop reading here if you just want to hear the good stuff...

The bull moves toward a loud noise in front of me to my right [note: i later realize i should have paid more attention to this; tracks the next day told me this was human]. I laterally traverse the hill with the bull -- about 10 feet above him and 34 yards away. My buddy doesn't have a shot. I do. Perfect sight picture. The trees and branches make a box that will allow my arrow's trajectory to sail right down into him. Mentally check the pin placement, the form, the bow's level, pull back harder as the trigger finally clicks, and hear a beautifully solid "thud" that sounds like a nice broadside impact. He runs about 50 yards away, stops as I mew at him, then slowly walks behind a small group of trees and high grass. It's 7:06 p.m.

We mark the spot. Fall back to eat, hydrate, get the field dressing gear, and allow the bull to expire without pressure. I wasn't 100% sure where the arrow hit him, but everything seemed solid.

The tall grass turned out to be a flooded marsh. Should have known. While i didn't relish tracking him at night through that kind of terrain, we were ready to do whatever it took to recover this animal. We started around 9 p.m., moving to where we saw him last. After only finding about 16 drops of blood, we follow a spiral search pattern at the last known site. And do it again. And again. My buddy was remarkably positive and relentless. Finally, by 1:15 a.m., I say "The night will be cold -- that's a good thing. We need daylight. Let's get back, sleep a few hours, and get on it come first light." On the way back I find the arrow. My Slick Trick 125 punched through him, covered in blood from tip to nock. No purple or bile, no stomach contents, and a decent amount of blood on the ground. This gives me a little bit of hope that i may yet find the animal.

While we're trying to catch a few hours of rest, I'm physically tired but cannot sleep at all. I'm feeling sick about this. I don't want to wound an animal and have it wander away; that feeds into the stereotype that non-hunters put out there. I want to recover the animal to be a good steward of creation -- even if the coyotes we heard had gotten to him first. And i don't want to come home empty-handed again, as my wife and daughter are gracious enough to give me personal time away to hunt despite being gone with deployments and training exercises so much this last decade. The weight of how horrible i feel surprises me.

We try searching again from daybreak until about 2:30 p.m. the next day through all sorts of hills, rivers, creeks, etc. I never recovered him. I still feel a sinking feeling in my stomach when I think about it, but maybe that somehow reinforces the sense of sobriety and sanctity around what we do -- something non-hunters will simply never understand because they never experience. And it will drive me to be a better hunter next year.

On a pragmatic note, i have some very specific reasons to think the bull made it to water that night and was harvested by some locals just on the other side of the river. Yes, it's possible he survived. It's also possible we started looking too early that night and pushed him deep into the hills to die. But there are several data points (including some horribly conflicting stories the next afternoon from a few locals on the other side of the river) that lead me to believe someone else found him before i did. Who knows.

Lessons Learned: What would you do differently in that situation ?

[Beendare]

Yeah, that Elknut stuff can really shorten a guys learning curve. That said, you still have to get out there and do it.

I'm a little confused....so was there another hunter between you and the bull when you shot?

FYI, its too easy to armchair QB these scenarios after the fact. I wouldn't beat yourself up too bad. Use it as a learning experience and move on.

a couple comments [that are NOT a criticism]

It doesn't sound like you did anything WRONG....I would do a few things different.

Did you see where the shot hit? Calling your shot is a skill all bowhunters benefit from. You should be able to remember the exact spot you were aiming at and most times see the arrow hit. If not then the shot conditions were bad or you haven't practiced this as your follow through. Its a big advantage to knowing where that shot went. You might have just put your pin on him and shot in the heat of the moment...a lot of guys do. Knowing where that shot hit is a skill...and it really helps on what to do after the shot.

I bugle like crazy after the shot. It sounds silly....but it sure keeps them there longer...which can sometimes mean the difference.

Equipment; I did that whole thread on my arrow and setup that many are thinking "Overkill" and saying it doesn't matter yatta yatta. In my experience...it has mattered...many times its the difference between a kill or a loss.

Well I can tell you that my setup outperforms yours in this scenario by a lot...no matter the shot location.

[saddlesore]

I know this can happen to anybody, but it is the primary reason that I do not hunt evenings

[wrkg4gd]

Yeah, that Elknut stuff can really shorten a guys learning curve. That said, you still have to get out there and do it.

So true! I learn so much better by doing it, but i was amazed how the ElkNut Playbook stuff came back to me in the moment. Worth the price of the book alone!

I'm a little confused....so was there another hunter between you and the bull when you shot?

All i can say for certain is that at one point i heard loud movement that implied a 'mammal' was down by some cattails. When i looked down and to the right where the noise was, i saw nothing; it was definitely not an elk. I actually heard a loud 'snap' to my left after that -- again, not an elk. I'd been working that bull for at least 20 minutes by that point, so i'm guessing that the noise might have drawn in a person or two. [I saw footprints later that morning and ran in to a couple locals hunting there later that week. They were a bit glassy eyed and said they'd already punched their tags ..despite the fact they were clearly still hunting. So i can guess as to how they roll. I have a hunch they were down in that same area the day i shot the bull, but it's speculation.]

Did you see where the shot hit? Calling your shot is a skill all bowhunters benefit from. You should be able to remember the exact spot you were aiming at and most times see the arrow hit. If not then the shot conditions were bad or you haven't practiced this as your follow through. Its a big advantage to knowing where that shot went. You might have just put your pin on him and shot in the heat of the moment...a lot of guys do. Knowing where that shot hit is a skill...and it really helps on what to do after the shot.

No i did not, which has bugged me everytime i've thought about it since Sept. I agree - it's definitely something i need to continue working on. I do when i shoot in practice. I think that with everything going on in that moment, i may have just lost my focus on the fletching about 1/2 way through the flight.

I bugle like crazy after the shot. It sounds silly....but it sure keeps them there longer...which can sometimes mean the difference.

Good suggestion. I did some mewing but stopped when he went behind some cover. Should've done some bugling for a while. In retrospect, i also would've staying in the area a lot longer and just watched. If there were 'vultures' hanging around the area, even moreso.

Equipment; I did that whole thread on my arrow and setup that many are thinking "Overkill" and saying it doesn't matter yatta yatta. In my experience...it has mattered...many times its the difference between a kill or a loss. Well I can tell you that my setup outperforms yours in this scenario by a lot...no matter the shot location.

Given your experience, i'll bet you're right. What is your setup? I'll have to take a closer look at your thread later (assume it's "Hunting Arrow- My thoughts" viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8504&p=95267#p95267 ). Thanks!!!

[WapitiTalk1]

No failure in my mind on your hunt Emile. You were in the elk woods, ELK hunting, threw out one final locator out before you lost shooting light, got an answer, headed to the bull w/o making any more sounds till you got close, and got a shot at a bull! You're one of the few in the world that ever get to experience that. Like Beendare mentioned, really hard to armchair QB these scenarios but a good AAR can go a long way sometimes (I figured you'd like that acronym; I'm retired Army myself). Just a couple of my thoughts. How close were you when you deployed "the threat"; just a note that this usually only works when you're right in the bull's boiler room, within 70 or even less yards dependent on terrain. You mentioned "a nice herd bull starts raking and comes at you bugling"... It's certainly possible but I would venture a guess you may have pulled a SAT bull off the fringes of the herd (did you hear more than one bull bugling as you approached?). Sure could have been a hunter up to your right but who knows for sure, there are a lot of human tracks in the WA elk woods, in sometimes remote places. You'd mentioned you were on a skid road (cat trail) so ya, maybe. It's kind of a turd move if another hunter heard you working a bull and moved in to try and get a shot. How far was your shot at the bull? In retrospect, do you feel you used the correct pin/yardage after you spent some time at the location after the shot and the next day? LIke Beendare mentioned, calling your shot is HUGE before you determine how long to let the animal alone before you track. Gotta say, after only finding a few drops of blood (never a good sign) it may have been best to back out around 2100 instead of continuing on. Did you find any more sign the next day, beyond what you found the night before? Just curious. At any rate, not all encounters end with a harvest and yes, there will be a few (we can all hope for only a very few) results that are not good. It happens. Thanks for sharing your story and yes sir, that Elknut guy can sure cut a hunter's learning curve way down! RJ

[Swede]

I am wondering, if there were other humans in with you and your friend when you shot, did they push the elk across the river. Did they move in when you backed away? If that happened, all you did was give them a head start and a huge advantage. It is a rotten stunt if that is what happened, but I too have had people cut in when I was working a herd. It has happened several times.

[wrkg4gd]

How close were you when you deployed "the threat"; just a note that this usually only works when you're right in the bull's boiler room, within 70 or even less yards dependent on terrain. You mentioned "a nice herd bull starts raking and comes at you bugling"... It's certainly possible but I would venture a guess you may have pulled a SAT bull off the fringes of the herd (did you hear more than one bull bugling as you approached?).

I saw him walking in at about 60+ yards. Not exactly sure where he was when i started the routine -- too thick to see initially. He was a nice 5X5 -- big bodied. You're right -- very possibly a Sat. Would've taken a 3-pt, honestly!

How far was your shot at the bull? In retrospect, do you feel you used the correct pin/yardage after you spent some time at the location after the shot and the next day?

34 yds, about 10 ft elevation = very minor adjustment. I was regularly hitting a w/in 4 inches at that range with my broadheads. Everything looked and felt remarkably solid -- right pin; no shaking or rushing. Given that the arrow and large blood flow was right at the 35 yd mark (double checked next day), it all seemed gtg. I think you're right thought --possibly disturbed him too early.

I am wondering, if there were other humans in with you and your friend when you shot, did they push the elk across the river. Did they move in when you backed away?

Swede, there's more to the story that i didn't share here that leads me to wonder if your speculation is on target. There was an extremely loud pack of coyotes near [what i later discovered] an elk crossing in the river just before 0100 that morning; the party terminated after about 30 seconds. I didn't explore it that night for a couple reasons -- including my unfamiliarity with the marsh area. The next day i drove around to the point across the river and discovered it was close to some property. A couple people that work/live there said they'd never heard a pack so loud there before. An owner of a home about 30 yds from the crossing said he didn't hear a thing that night. He let me walk all over the property and i never saw any sign of blood, so who knows what happened.

[Beendare]

wrking,
I have a lot of respect for a guy that admits failures and has an open mind such as yourself.

One thing I want to clarify on the 'shot followthru' you actually don't want to watch you're arrow....thats a bad habit called peeking. Its a little hard to describe what I mean but the 'Calling the Shot' has to do with your form on the follow thru...your shot sequence and your focus. I can try to explain better offline if you like.

Its an essential skill IMO....and it has helped me many times in low light situations....knowing where my arrow hit.

[wrkg4gd]

Beendare
Would love to hear more. Always learning. I really enjoy bowhunting elk. Whatever I can do to ensure I become more proficient at every part of the kill chain until I can piece it all together and actually harvest an elk.

Let me know what works best -- email, pm, phone call.

[ElkNut1]

Emile, thanks for sharing your story, it was an honest assessment of what happened, no sugar coating there! In my opinion you didn't do anything that most of us haven't experienced at one time or another. I agree losing an animal sucks & we have a tendency to beat ourselves up over it & we should to a certain degree but then it's time to move on. It sounds like your setup is just fine, your arrow passed completely through & into the ground at 34 yards. Your head of choice (slick trick) will certainly put elk down, my son & I have put a 1/2 dozen bulls down with them with zero issues. Like any animal regardless of broadhead used you Must hit an animal where it lives, heart/lungs for a quick humane kill. Outside of that kill area elk can go along ways whether they end up dying or not.

My guess is at the shot you moved your bowarm in hopes to see the arrow impact the elk, this is a very common error that many of us have been guilty of especially early in our elk hunting careers. It's easy to be rattled on our first elk as we just want everything to go perfect. Moving your bowarm just a smidgen can redirect your arrow a foot at the 34 yard distance. My guess is this is what possibly took place taking a seemingly good shot & turning into a poor shot & hit. It happens bud & it's happened to me as well.

One thing that has helped me immensely to overcome wanting to see the arrow in flight is to practice during the year on targets & 3D shoots exactly how I would on a live animal. Don't think that you can shoot one way at targets & 3D shoots & then when it comes to live animals you will focus better. It doesn't work that way, our mind will build memory into our shot sequence. When done properly month after month it becomes ingrained in us so we go on auto pilot on the range & in the field during our actual hunts. Train yourself one way & it will carry over into YOUR shooting style.

For what it's worth I will share how I over came a similar issue. My main focus these days is to keep my right hand while at full draw firmly to my right cheek, (I'm right handed) I focus on keeping it pinned there against my face through the release of my trigger on my string loop, I do not move my right hand at all until I know the arrow is down range, this automatically keeps my bowarm from moving, all I do is focus on the spot I'm trying to hit. I do not concern myself at seeing where the arrow hits. (that's the hard part to over come) With tons of practice it can be achieved, you will build that muscle memory that your right hand stays quietly against your cheek well after the arrow is gone, it will become automatic!

Look at this short clip of an elk hunt I was on, pay special attention to where my right hand is once I pulled the trigger, it stays quiet & against my cheek well after the arrow is gone! Maybe something similar can work for you? Good luck bud!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzYMiTW3AHQ

ElkNut1

[wrkg4gd]

Paul,
Thanks for taking the time to offer some great tips. I'll definitely focus on maintaining that form after release to ensure everything stays anchored. The video was helpful to visualize what you were describing.

This forum is great. What a blessing to have experienced guys giving me my own clinic online!!!

Here's hoping year #4 is the charm. Can't wait to get back out there.

[Lefty]

I have a lot of respect for a guy that admits failures ,.....

That has been a hard way for me to earn respect

Some time soon it will all come together for us. Everyone needs learning experiences

[CurlyTail]

A very similar experience happened to my brother two years ago. Solid hit for sure, but he was not able to say the exact anatomic location. We ended up bumping the bedded Elk after giving him one hour to die - clearly should have given him overnight in retrospect, and it just may have not been a fatal location. We don't know.

Due to this experience, I now use Nocturnal lighted nocks (I like green). When I shot my Spike this season, in very early morning low light, it was easy to determine that the shot placement was right on. When I missed the Bull of a lifetime 2 weeks later in another state, it was easy to see that I had shot high and missed cleanly. I love lighted nocks for this reason - even though they are kind of pricey and lifespan is not amazing. Something to consider.