Alternative Facts in Elk Hunting?

[Elkduds]

Was there something you always viewed as gospel about elk hunting, then you learned otherwise and it majorly changed your hunting?

I've had many of these, a recent one was this: The true anatomy of an elk shoulder. I always thought the shoulderblade and upper leg bone came straight down, blocking heart and fronts of lungs. But no! Both bones angle toward the neck and brisket, leaving a very shootable target forward of the back of the leg.

Anyone else?

[Swede]

The first thing that comes to mind is the old idea that a badly wounded animal goes downhill to water. That is too often not the case. Mortally wounded elk and deer are likely to go uphill. Elk especially like to follow the herd, but even lone elk will sometimes go uphill.

[ElkNut1]

Mark, you mean like this! (grin)

ElkNut1

[Elkduds]

Mark, you mean like this! (grin)

ElkNut1

Zactly, perfect illustration. Good shot! Only ribs there, no thick leg or shoulder bones. Maybe someone will post up an anatomical view.

[N2mywake]

[
Zactly, perfect illustration. Good shot! Only ribs there, no thick leg or shoulder bones. Maybe someone will post up an anatomical view.

this one's not terrible...

[Swede]

Elk do not look up, so concealment in a tree stand is usually not important.

I have found they do look up and they can catch movement. They can see an odd blob against a tree. I am not sure that they don't become leery of some water holes even when scent is not an issue. I see evidence that makes me think some do.

[RAMMONT]

Was there something you always viewed as gospel about elk hunting, then you learned otherwise and it majorly changed your hunting?

I've had many of these, a recent one was this: The true anatomy of an elk shoulder. I always thought the shoulderblade and upper leg bone came straight down, blocking heart and fronts of lungs. But no! Both bones angle toward the neck and brisket, leaving a very shootable target forward of the back of the leg.

Anyone else?

I got in to a discussion recently where I tried to explain this and was told that it's only a lucky shot hitting the heart, the guy that said that is like a lot of others that believe a double lung shot is the only good shot for an elk. My elk this year was a good heart shot at 110 yards with open sights. I just aim for a point that is above and slightly forward of the "elbow".

[six]

Only use cow calls because elk are wise to bugles.

[ElkNut1]

Six, my favorite one yet! (grin) It's so true these days!

ElkNut1

[Swede]

Deer and elk are afraid when they smell human urine.

I have written about this several times, but it is a hunters tale. I am convinced it is not the urine that frightens them. They smell you. Years ago I had a hunter take over where I had my tree stand. He even relocated my ladder. After moving it back an forth trying to reclaim it, I decided I would teach him a different lesson. For over a week I urinated into cleaned milk jugs. The afternoon before the season opened I took those containers of urine, and poured out several gallons around his stand, the water hole he was near and the trails leading in. The next day he killed a bear there and a few days later he got his elk too. So much for urine scaring off wildlife. Since then I just relieve myself on the ground from my stand. I have had deer, elk, and bears come around with no sign they were concerned. I have even watched them forage on some bushes I peed on.

[otcWill]

The idea that any one way is best or that anyone really has it figured out.

I'm lucky enough have a close circle of friends who are very accomplished elk killers. What I've noticed is how very different our approaches are. It seems everyone has honed their particular skill set. There are quite a few ways to be an effective elk hunter but the best hunters I know have fine tuned tactics that they were already good at if that makes sense.

[Elkduds]

Another big game changer for me, gutless method. And a packframe.

[WapitiTalk1]

My biggest has to be "elk don't really have a language, they're just hollering at each other similar to dogs barking". I kind of held this theory for many years until a buddy introduced me to Elknut1 (Paul Medel) a handful of years ago. What an eye opener! I've said this a hundred plus times, "if I knew back then what I know now about elk speak, many more bulls noses would have hit the dirt"! Complete game changer for me and countless others I'm sure.

[WapitiTalk1]

I've had many of these, a recent one was this: The true anatomy of an elk shoulder. I always thought the shoulderblade and upper leg bone came straight down, blocking heart and fronts of lungs. But no! Both bones angle toward the neck and brisket, leaving a very shootable target forward of the back of the leg.

Yes sir, this fine gentleman was actually quartering ever so slightly towards me and I was still able to hit the inside of the ">". The bull went less than 30 yards and died within 30 seconds.

IMG_0076%20(1024x768).jpg (200.77 KiB) Viewed 13815 times

[Swede]

I agree RJ, but I believe we can nuance elk sounds too much.
E.g. I have heard the bark and the nervous grunt multiple times. I can detect no difference in the sound. I think they are exactly the same and the only thing that changes is the information the elk has. If the critter sees or smells you they panic and leave. If they don't know what is out there, they stay nervous until they become more nervous or are satisfied they is nothing to be alarmed about.

Another alternative fact is that I must say just the right thing to the elk, from a long list of possible sounds, or they will panic and leave. If you understand the basic sounds as explained by Paul and others, an educated and reasonable response, including personal movement, is based on sizing up the situation. E.g. it is not reasonable to try to threaten a bull that has sent out a location bugle 1/4 mile away, and if you stay there and respond with like calls he will answer your calls a very long time, but nothing happens. Getting within 100 yards of a bull is usually pretty simple too. What you do to close that distance to under 50 yards, where the bull is exposed enough for a shot, is what makes the difference between an exciting hunt and a successful one.

[RAMMONT]

Winter migration

While it's true that elk will migrate in some places, it's equally true that I've never lived in a place where they did.

I live along the Continental Divide in Southwestern Montana and I guess the elk in my area are just too far north for a Yellowstone migration and too far south for a move to the Bob Marshall. I'm still seeing elk on the tops of the peaks around here. I went snow shoeing yesterday and saw elk on the tops of the local peaks which run around 6500 feet (the highest peaks within a half dozen miles are no more than about 8000 feet high).

In the past years I lived just south of Flagstaff Az. and I always saw elk on top of the same mountains in the winter snows that I hunted them on during the fall hunting season, there was never a mass migration out of the area. Even when I lived in Utah I saw no mass movement to one area or another. In all those places the elk would move to places where there was more feed or better protection from storms but usually within a couple of miles of where I would normally expect them to be during hunting season.

The elk I saw yesterday were bedding on the north side of the mountain (in the heavy timber; another thing that I've been taught to believe that they wont do during the cold/snowy winter season) during the day. As the sun was setting they moved over to the south side of the mountain (wind swept grass), pretty much the same thing that they did during the other 3 seasons. I will admit that I've seen animals down in the river and creek beds but even then they were moving out of the lowlands in the evening and headed uphill toward the grass as the sun was going down. I have seen elk move, as a group, for short distances but never more than 10 or 20 miles and then it was to protected private winter parks where the animals are fed hay for the winter by private or governmental agencies.

[Elkduds]

"30-06 is the minimum caliber for effectively dispatching elk." My last elk dropped @ the shot. 270 win. Late Nov I saw a 17 year old newb hunter drop a middling cow w 1 shot from his 7-08. Modern bullets expand fully and stay in one piece @ a wide range of velocities. So accurate shot placement is more important than magnum power or large calibers in killing elk.

[snowbank]

I find more elk migrate from sub-zero temps than snow depth and a crust on the snow moves them everytime.However this year the elk showed up in my field in Feb. with sub-zero temps, snow and a crust- first time in 30 years. There is what happens normally and then what elk do. It keeps you on your toes.

[wawhitey]

Deer and elk are afraid when they smell human urine.

I have written about this several times, but it is a hunters tale. I am convinced it is not the urine that frightens them. They smell you. Years ago I had a hunter take over where I had my tree stand. He even relocated my ladder. After moving it back an forth trying to reclaim it, I decided I would teach him a different lesson. For over a week I urinated into cleaned milk jugs. The afternoon before the season opened I took those containers of urine, and poured out several gallons around his stand, the water hole he was near and the trails leading in. The next day he killed a bear there and a few days later he got his elk too. So much for urine scaring off wildlife. Since then I just relieve myself on the ground from my stand. I have had deer, elk, and bears come around with no sign they were concerned. I have even watched them forage on some bushes I peed on.

Lot of guys think this. I use my own urine to make mock scrapes and deer come in and work the scrape. Ive peed right next to an elk wallow, no problem. But if people want to pack around a gatorade jug to pee in while theyre in a treestand i say let em. Better make sure to screw that cap on tight before you put it in your pack

[Indian Summer]

That a person can't afford to go elk hunting "until next year".

You only live once. Putting life on hold is not necessary. Like anything else if you plan in advance anything is possible. If you hunt DIY your only costs are a license, gas, and meat processing which you can do yourself too. If you have a partner or two gas become minimal. I never factor in food costs because you eat even if you're sitting home thinking about elk hunting instead of doing it right.

Sometimes I see posts that say "Planning to go elk hunting in 2 or 3 years" and I think that guy is NEVER going elk hunting..... and I cry.

Life: Just do it!

[hike2hunt]

Back in the 90's my buddy borrowed my 30-06 for deer season, and broke my pin, and didn't tell me, my back up was my 25-06, which everyone in my camp said couldn't put an elk down.

A nice friendly argument ensued for the remainder of camp, and politely kept reminding them, it's shot placement! And it held true, on the bull I took at 250yds through the heart.

[six]

You only live once. Putting life on hold is not necessary. Like anything else if you plan in advance anything is possible. If you hunt DIY your only costs are a license, gas, and meat processing which you can do yourself too. If you have a partner or two gas become minimal. I never factor in food costs because you eat even if you're sitting home thinking about elk hunting instead of doing it right.

So true. $25 dollars a week goes into a savings account direct deposit. I don't even miss it. Its more than enough for a DIY elk hunt. I know guys who spend twice that on beer and cigarettes.

[Swede]

Sometimes I see posts that say "Planning to go elk hunting in 2 or 3 years" and I think that guy is NEVER going elk hunting

Well said I.S..

If you count the cost of elk hunting in meat, it is not worth it. If you count the price in enjoyment, learning and adventure, it is very cheap. On my calculator it sure beats Disneyland, Viking Cruises or trips to watch the Seahawks.

[Beendare]

The idea that any one way is best or that anyone really has it figured out.

I'm lucky enough have a close circle of friends who are very accomplished elk killers. What I've noticed is how very different our approaches are. It seems everyone has honed their particular skill set. There are quite a few ways to be an effective elk hunter but the best hunters I know have fine tuned tactics that they were already good at if that makes sense.

^^^ great post
Ive seen too many cases where either nothing works ..... or anything works to think that there is any 100% strategy.