Layering systems vs. Hunting suits

[VT Sasquatch]

I have been hunting in Pennsylvania and other northeastern states for close to 25 years. Out here the style of hunting is often hiking into a stand location and waiting on the deer. (Not always, of course). The circumstances here (hunting pressure, often smaller plots of land, leaf noise, etc.) often mean that that style of hunting is the most productive. As a result, a majority of my hunting clothing has always been heavy sets of insulated camo for long sits in the cold. As an example, I have a couple sets of the Cabela's MT050 Whitetail Extreme pants and parks. These and similar have been very good for me for stand hunting for whitetails in cold weather.

When I first started becoming interested in Western hunting, I noticed that this kind of hunting suit is rarely if ever discussed in the context of Western Hunting. I started get suggestions for Sitka style gear and when I handled it I came away thinking "how the heck is this thin, light clothing going to keep me warm on an all-day sit in 15-20 degree F Vermont weather?" It took me a while to see that these systems filled different niches.

I do wear the 3-layer system for certain hunting conditions in the east. Mostly for backpack hunts and hunts where I am going to be moving a lot and covering a lot of ground. When I am only hiking a mile in for a long sit, I still use the bulky and heavy suits.

The one thing that does still puzzle me a bit is that the layering systems like Sitka, First Lite, Kuiu, etc. seem great for relatively mild condition and situations where hunters are mobile and generating body heat. Still, I cannot imagine how the stuff would keep a hunter comfortable in truly cold weather - say single digits fahrenheit or less.

Maybe I am just not rugged enough. Does a merino base + light puffy + shell really keep you guys warm in serious cold or are you doing something else in the late seasons? Is there a place for the heavy camo suits and IWOMs in the Rockies and Alaska? What am I missing?

(I'm sorry about the dumb questions but I am just trying to understand gear and how to best use it).

[If you read that whole long-winded post you must have a good attention span]

[>>>---WW---->]

The answer is a big NO! It was 35 below here this morning. LOL! You won't find many hunters out there when the weather gets truly cold like that. But for normal cold, layering is the best answer. And it doesn't have to be all that hi priced gear. What works for you in the Midwest and northeast will also work out west.

Cold is cold no matter where you are. But damp cold back east will cut through you much faster than the dry cold we have in most of the western states.

[Elkduds]

I'm old enough I don't want to put up w being cold. I hunted after Thanksgiving this year @ 9K elevation in CO, temps 5-40 degrees, wind. I wore thin polypro longhandles under Core4 softshell pants (think Sitka). Merino socks, uninsulated leather/gore boots. Merino shirt, microfleece shirt, puffy jacket, softshell jacket. Fleece hat, sometimes fleece balaclava or neck gaiter. Warm gloves. I was comfortable when it was cold/windy, easily adjusted as the day warmed. Hunting was mostly sitting/standing and glassing. Hope that helps.

[VT Sasquatch]

I think I would have been freezing but I'll have to give it a shot. In those conditions I would have been in my MT050 Extreme Whitetail suit unless I was moving a lot. I would take it off while hiking and put a fleece or softshell on.

The one thing that I have overlooked somewhat is the mid-layer in the layering systems. I have always either worn a fleece mid-layer or a puffy. My fleece mid-layers (Cabela's Alaskan Guide 1/2 zip) are too loose in the body to feel real comfortable under a puffy). I am looking at buying a couple KUIU Ultra Merino 210 mid-layers. I am thinking that have in that between my merino base and the puffy might help.

[saddlesore]

I hunted this past week in near zero temps in eastern CO. I had on poly long johns, wranglers,insulated bibs, heavy fleece shirt, a two coat parka, full foot chemical foot warmers, hand warmers and mittens . I still froze my butt off. I did get sweaty one time walking to the other side of a 1/4 section corn pivot.

[VT Sasquatch]

What you needed was a 12 ounce puffy.

[Indian Summer]

I grew up hunting the same stuff the same way. Like all Pa hunters back in the day I had my blaze orange one piece suit. Now looking back I find it rather hilarious. But now I'm all about layers even on stand in Pennsylvania. I have a down puffy for a mid layer that works great for long cold sits. But I am a big fan of Sitka and just last I asked a friend with a guide license to enroll in their guide/outfitter program so I can get a Sitka Incinerator coat for half off. Can't wait to try it.

[VT Sasquatch]

Yeah, I have a blaze orange set of bibs and parka that was the cat's ts back in the day. I also have an insulated fleece coverall in a blaze camo pattern. I haven't worn them in 10 years but I can't bring myself to throw them out.

The parka and bibs are useable if it os dry out. They have a Goretex lining but a cotton outter layer that soaks up water. I tried to drag a deer wearing that set and almost died of heat stroke.

I do like the MT050 sets when it is cold. It's hard to beat for a stand hunt on a day like today.

[RAMMONT]

My fleece mid-layers (Cabela's Alaskan Guide 1/2 zip) are too loose in the body to feel real comfortable under a puffy)

I'm not sure what you mean by "too loose" but maybe it's an issue of your layers being too tight, you need dead air space to keep warm.

[husky390]

I'll use my Heater Body Suit here in Colorado for elk season. It just depends on the weather and how I'm going to hunt. If I'm moving a lot, then the suit stays at camp and I layer.


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[Indian Summer]

I'll use my Heater Body Suit here in Colorado for elk season. It just depends on the weather and how I'm going to hunt. If I'm moving a lot, then the suit stays at camp and I layer.


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Love my Heater Body Suit but elk hunting is always a mobile game for me so I've never taken it elk hunting.

[VT Sasquatch]

Rammont: I find that Cabelas clothes (and other companies too) seem to make their clothes for huskier people. I am not skinny by any means (6'1" and about 195). If I size down too far, Cabelas clothes won't fit my chest or shoulders. They are almost always baggy around the abdomen. As a result my fleeces bunch up around the waist/abdomen under my puffies. A bigger puffh would probably help but I think I would feel like the Michellin Man.

Fortunately, some companies clothes fit me bery comfortably. I recently bought a KUIU puffy in XL and it fits great. Size Large in First Lite seems to fit me well too.

What I decided to do was buy a couple Icebreaker Realfleece layers (http://www.icebreaker.com/en/midlayers/ ... _color=901) to wear over a merino base and under a puffy when it is cold. I may also buy a Kuiu Superdown jacket. I have a few synthetic insulation layers but I'' thinking the goos down might be warmer.

As for the heater suit? I have heard they are good. I have an IWOM and like it but don't use it often.

[VT Sasquatch]

I'll add here rather than start a new thread. I am looking to but a packable warm jacket. Something to keep in my pack until I am sitting/glassing that will keep me warm. I am looking at the KUIU SuperDown jacket and pants. They are light and pack small but don't appear to have much insulation. I want something very warm but still packable. I have been carrying an LL Bean Down jacket but it is not very packable. There are a lot of packable down jackets on the market but not designed for hunters (i.e. not camo). Have any of you used the KUIU SuperDown? Is it warm? Worth the money? Any other suggestions? Thanks

[husky390]

First Lite Uncompaghre is what I use for my backpack hunts and for the exact scenario you mentioned. Bring a rain jacket for extra protection from the wind and of course rain/snow.

I also have the Sitka Kelvin Lite vest and after how well it performs I wouldn't hesitate to buy one of their puffy jackets.


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[VT Sasquatch]

Thanks husky. I actually have a First Lite Uncompaghre too. I like it and it is warm but I'm looking for something with even more insulation. I tend to get cold easily. I am now wondering if a ECWCS Primaloft dlset woukd work. The price is right but it might be too bulky. I also found a Cabelas pant that looks warm and packable but the jacket is not available: http://www.cabelas.com/product/CABELAS- ... lsrc=aw.ds

[Lefty]

I hunted at least a dozen times in sub zero temps from a small goose pit, without a heater/stove.
This is what worked for me on the very coldest days, in the blind so no wind most days were -11 --18, The three colder days (-19 , -21, -22.9) I brought a Colman propane cat heater
Lacross 1800 gm Thinsulate boots, old style ( thicker) Browning or Lacross wool/poly blend socks
250 gram Cabelas brand bibs on 4 hunts otherwise I wore Carhartts
Bottoms; merino wool, old Cabelas poly polypropylene, then new fleece Cabelas pajama pants (or Browning insulated jeans)
On top: old skin tight UA, merino wool, old Cabelas polypropylene, Sitka hoody mid layer, and once in the blind I added 20 year old Cabelas camo fleece or 15 year old Cabelas snow camo fleece.
a free Home Depot neck gator, or old snowmoble helmet balaclava
Kings snow camo beanie or balaclava with a white face mask.
I try to dress lighter on top so I can shoot decent. I did take my older Cabelas waterfowl jacket, but generally I wrapped the dog up in than and never wore it in the blind.

I use to hunt in old military down/feather sleeping bags, worked but that old military surplus stink bothers me.

[VT Sasquatch]

I decided to try those Cabelas down pants. I figure it's worth a try. I was leaning toward the Kuiu but mostly for the prettier camo patterns. I just got home from work and pulled out some puffy/insulation layers to play with. It turns out that my Kuiu Kenai jacket (XL) fits perfectly under my First Lite Uncompadhre (size large). I think I can make due with what I have for now. I also have an inexpensive camo down jacket from LL Bean (600 fill, I think) that is pretty warm. It doesn't pack down as small as I'd like but I can make ot work, at least until the Cabelas jacket becomes available.

I don't know about that set-up, Lefty. On the hunting shows the hosts' camo always matches. : )

[VT Sasquatch]

I thought this might be worth mentioning for those that are looking for an inexpensive insulating layer, Badlands Inferno jackets are selling for between $55 and $75 right now in a woodland camo pattern. I already own one but came across Sierra Trading Post for $55 instead of the usual $169 so I ordered a back up. My guess is that they are changing or discontinuing the jacket (maybe going to switch camo pattern?). I just thought I would mention this since it is a bargain for a pretty warm puffy. http://www.sierratradingpost.com/badlan ... n~p~105cj/

Also, cheap beater soft shells are available through Cabelas right now. http://www.cabelas.com/product/CABELAS- ... 6CQ_st%3Db

I hope this post is not against any rules. I just remember getting a heads up on the KUIU sale a while back and it saved me some money.