When does it all click

[T.B.]

I've really been enjoying the informative topics and responses regarding the different situations and many times recognize the scenario in my own hunting situations. Mine have ended with a "oh that's what I should have done different "
At what point did it really start to click for you guys. For instance being confident of the bull is with a cow or not. This should be a big factor in my next move but I seem to "panic" and loose confidence on what to do next. Still enjoying the hunts even if it's not been ending in a shot.... Looking forward to September already !!

[Lefty]

Im still waiting!!
I'll admit Im not there yet in the archery elk talk. Im still paying dues.
Ive tended to have something fall apart when its time.
Just a matter of moments and a plane flies over or an ATV gets near. Murphy's law or wrong choices seemed to happen overwhelmingly with real close encounters. And the natural world,..a bit of wind swirl

[Swede]

When does it all click? It seems to come together for me after I have the critter on the ground. Before that it is a matter of trial and error. I have no fool proof plan, but some things work better than others.
I think if you start with something like Rory's calling card and learn a few tactics from Elknut you have a good foundation. Build on these and add a strategy or two each year. I would not try to memorize all of Elknut's materials ever, but listen and read. As you see things; apply what you learned as best you can.
Maybe it is all clicking when you know you made the good effort and a calculated attempt. Then if it fails, you go back to try again, satisfied with yourself. Also don't let the success of others, especially on this or other forums the standard by which you measure your own. We are not all hunting the same area, the same way, at the same time every year.

[cohunter]

I was going to say never... But Swede's right: probably the most rewarding part of hunting is when an animal is on the ground and you can replay the situation in your mind and check off all the times you made the right decision in the sequence of events leading to that moment. Don't be fooled or discouraged by the quick answers you read on some of the 'scenarios' posted here... In real life, there are many more unknown variables - I'll wager most of the scenarios have unknown variables as well - the herd bull silently lurking just below the elk you saw on the ridge, the satellite bull grazing unseen downwind of the herd AND your chosen ambush point... This fall I messed up or misplayed at least 8 encounters before shooting my bull (I even messed up THAT part. http://www.wapititalk.com/Hunting/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8004 The year before it was more... The hunts that don't work out are the toughest - you only have your mistakes to count up until the next year! I will say that twice in my recollection the hunt has gone exactly as planned without any missteps - yes it was nice to get elk early opening morning - but the hunts with a few missteps were more memorable... longer too!

[six]

Once you get your first elk on the ground it's like a light switch. Your left brain tells your right brain you can do this and things really start to make sense. I wouldn't want to venture a guess the number of times my close encounters didn't work out. Keep reading, talking to experienced elk hunters and most of all keep after em. A good friend told me once. "That's why they call it hunting and not killing."

[Swede]

I believe any hunter can get just plain lucky, even very lucky. That doesn't mean we have it figured out.
I don't have it all figured out. I know some things that can and do work; sometimes. Those same things will leave you empty and frustrated too.
Oh hunter: You are not really in control. There are always a multitude of things that can co wrong. You just do those things that put the odds a little more in your favor. The best thing to do is patiently persevere and learn as you go.

I suppose that when you really get that into your head and know some things to try in a given situation, it has "clicked".

[RAMMONT]

I believe any hunter can get just plain lucky, even very lucky. That doesn't mean we have it figured out.
I don't have it all figured out. I know some things that can and do work; sometimes. Those same things will leave you empty and frustrated too.
Oh hunter: You are not really in control. There are always a multitude of things that can co wrong. You just do those things that put the odds a little more in your favor. The best thing to do is patiently persevere and learn as you go.

I suppose that when you really get that into your head and know some things to try in a given situation, it has "clicked".

That's exactly what I wanted to say but couldn't figure out a good way to say it. You never "know" anything for a fact, you simply have a bigger bag of tricks that allow you to make a better guess than a person that hasn't hunted elk as much. Luck always plays a part and all we can do is try to stack the odds in our favor by using as many tricks as we've learned.

[Tigger]

It could be when you have confidence in your ability and tactics. My goal my first year was to have a real, live bull answer my pathetic attempt at a call. To my utter surprise, I fooled multiple bulls. Fast forward to last year and I talked with a bull for about 3 hours. He thought I was an elk! Obviously, he had a hearing impediment, but nonetheless, I have a lot of confidence in my calling ability now (although I still sound like a wounded goose compared to some of the guys on this forum!).

The other thing that confidence does is it allows an encounter to go wrong, yet you still believe in your approach. For example, you do everything right, but that errant swirl of wind goofs you up even thought the thermals were in your favor. Your approach was correct, you just had bad luck. It happens. When you have confidence and it has "clicked" for you, the next situation may very well work out with the same exact approach.

[saddlesore]

For me ,it was when I could start showing or telling others how to hunt and kill elk AND they went out and did it. Finding and killing elk has always seemed to be easy for me. My very first elk hunt 47 years ago we went out and killed three bulls the first morning.There have been darn few years in between when I didn't fill my tags.The hardest thing though was to figure out what elk do and where they go because of other hunters and that changes for every different area I hunt. It's easy to hunt them when they have not been pressured.

[Tigger]

Saddlesore,
could you bottle up some of that knowledge and send me a pint? On second thought, make that a 55 gallon drum! I would love to sit down and pick your brain over a campfire. Unfortunately, you would undoubtedly ask me something and then I would be exposed as a greenhorn! I will say this, I have more confidence now than I did last year.

[saddlesore]

Tigger. My biggest problem with teaching young guys was that they end up not wanting to work that hard for an elk. Elk hunting requires a full commitment.
When I was hunting more. Folks use to ask me what I did for a living. I told them I hunted elk, but I had a day job to supplement it. Never be afraid to ask any question. Sometimes there is more than one correct answer.

I might not be able to answer some of them.At my age,my memory is something I use to forget with more and more.

I'm sure there are more than a few young guys out there with newer technology that can help just as much if not more.

Sadly, the last few weeks,I have found out my hunting days might be over unless the docs can do something with my right shoulder not involving full reverse shoulder replacement which would require stopping all shooting, shoeing my mules, and saddling them . Three orthopedist already told me there is nothing to be done. I went out deer hunting this week and found out I couldn't even shoulder a little 44 Mag Marlin carbine

[Gypsumreaper]

I Must agree it usually feels like it all clicked when the animal is on the ground. Then into the next season and I can feel like a rookie again.
I agree with saddle sore is a lot of people don't want to put in the time or energy they watch tv shows and think hey elk hunting is easy and I can do that. But they don't know the amount of work that goes into an elk hunt.
I'm an outfitter and some weeks guiding I look like the greatest elk hunter in the world the next week I feel like a complete greenhorn cause it just isn't coming together for us. Every situation is different and not many people have executed every single scenario and come out like a pro.
Elk hunting is a constant learning type of thing in my opinion at least. I have had some of my drop camp hunters completely curse the woods and elk cause they had no idea what they were doing, they put in tons of time when they were here hunting but other than that they had no idea, they tried hunting elk like whitetails or hogs or mule deer whatever they are used to.

This year I had a first time elk Hunter come out from New Jersey, he spent 9 days in my home area I grew up hunting and was completely lost. He booked a 1 day guided hunt with us and we harvested him a bull, everything felt like it clicked for us, the elk followed the script on that hunt. He couldn't believe it, it was just like the videos he grew up watching, but what the viewers of that episode we taped won't see a lot of is the 90 miles he put in hiking before he came to us.

Saddlesore sorry to hear that your career may come to an end, that's a tough pill to swallow. I know the day I can't saddle and head in the mountains is the day I'm gonna be severely depressed. If ur like me hunting and riding is your life and losing just one would be devastating let alone both.


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[Swede]

Saddlesore, I am so sorry to read what I did about your hunting prospects. I am good for now, but cherish every hunting day I get. You still have a lot to offer here, and I am sure in your home community. I sure agree with your take on hunting and on Gypsumreaper's. All the best.

[Tigger]

Saddle, that is not good news! You better start practicing with that left hand! Actually, I am confident you will figure something out. You don't get to be as successful as you have been without being resourceful.

The thing I want to learn more about is how to find elk. So far, I think we have just put in so much work that we have seen more than our fair share. But it feels a little random. I am not that confident in that part of elk hunting. Why this ridge? Why that saddle? Bedding areas....pshaw! I hunt tens of thousands of acres of bedding areas! It is almost all the same, so why would this area be better than that area? Our best angle so far is saddles. We have a few that we see elk around all the time. I don't understand why this grassy meadow is a feeding area and the other ones are not. That is where I feel I need the most help. uh, no laughing Saddlesore!

[saddlesore]

The killing part is easy, the finding is the hard part

[>>>---WW---->]

Sorry to hear about the shoulder. Trust me, I know how you feel. I have the same problem. Sounds like you need a young mule skinner you can mentor. You teach him how to hunt elk and he can handle the mules.

[Elkduds]

Saddle, that medical news is a b!tch. I don't want to think of a highly experienced hunter like you hanging it up. I hope you can find alternative ways to pursue your passion and train the next generation of hunters. Handgun? Crossbow?

[WapitiTalk1]

I knew it! Saddlesore and >>>---WW--->, you're contagious! I was perfectly fine and healthy till spring 2016 then I started getting crazy bad aches and pains in my shoulders, upper back, knees, and hips (and, lost quite a bit of my minimal muscle mass). Hurt so bad last summer I couldn't get in my normal hunting shape and had to get lower poundage limbs for my bow as it was a pain (literally) to pull back 64 pounds. Initial prognosis from the sawbones was advanced, acute arthritis. Yeah, whatever.... I waited till after hunting season to turn myself over to the medical folks for a barrage of testing. Well, after the past three months of poking, prodding, Xrays, CT scan, etc., etc., I have acute, advanced, osteoarthritis in shoulders, upper/lower back, hips and knees (and me at the young age of 56). I guess I picked it up from you two by spending time on the Wapiti Talk Forum (should have gotten an anti-forum spread ailment vaccination I guess). The Dr. sais it may stabilize the way it is (bad enough, believe me) or get progressively worse as I get older. Oh well, I guess I'll have to create a new forum on Wapiti Talk for "the hop-a-longs" so we can tell of deeds true and brave . Sorry to hear about your conditions guys and hope it works out so you can continue doing what you love to do, I certainly hope I'm able to keep trekking the elk woods for many years to come.

[T.B.]

some really useful information ...aprreciate the responses.....for those battling physical problems keep us updated

[mandrroofing]

I have by no means have it figured out buuuuut i do feel I always have a good chance.I now feel like im hunting and not just hiking.I think that just come with time and a peice of that puzzle is learning the area your hunting and not moving on to quickly.leaning there patterns in the area.learning werr water holes are,were MOST hunters dont go.So yes for me its learing my area well.i know its not everything but it's a lot. ..

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[saddlesore]

Update on my shoulder. Doc say s I must have a full reversed shoulder implant. If I do, I won't have shooting restrictions.Circumstances here makes it so I can't do it until spring of 2018. For 2017 , I will just have to see how much the current problem quiets down

[T.B.]

Thanks for the update saddlesore.

[Tigger]

Phantom, have you tried a good chiropractor? I had a problem in my Achilles. Saw the normal doc....arthritis. Nothing can be done. But try a physical therapist to get it loose. PT said arthritis, here are some medieval torture things to try. Went to him for a couple months with no improvement.

Went to a chiropractor who said "your hips are causing that. I can fix it.". I walked out of his office 80% better and was 100% cured in a couple months. It is SOOOO worth the try. Maybe it wont work, but any less pressure you can put on those joints is a good thing.

[WapitiTalk1]

Phantom, have you tried a good chiropractor? I had a problem in my Achilles. Saw the normal doc....arthritis. Nothing can be done. But try a physical therapist to get it loose. PT said arthritis, here are some medieval torture things to try. Went to him for a couple months with no improvement.

Went to a chiropractor who said "your hips are causing that. I can fix it.". I walked out of his office 80% better and was 100% cured in a couple months. It is SOOOO worth the try. Maybe it wont work, but any less pressure you can put on those joints is a good thing.

Not yet but am in the PT "phase" of the Army medical system. Doesn't seem to be helping. May give a chiro a try at some point, thanks.

[>>>---WW---->]

T.B.: It never clicks! Anyone who thinks they know it all is just too big for their britches and they are opening their selves up for the big let down. Even the so called 10% that are consistant most of the time will tell you they are constantly learning. I suppose that is why we are all here. The biggest tip I have learned over 35+ years of chasing elk is to know how to separate the hype or BS from fact that I read or have been told. There is no better teacher than the elk itself.

RJ: Dang bud, sorry to hear old Arthur has caught up with you at such a tender age. I'm in the same boat but I'm a lot older than you. Right shoulder won't allow me to draw my bow anymore. So I'm experimenting with a DrawLoc device in order to stay in the bowhunting for elk game. Trust me, it is no advantage to use one at all. It is going to be a royal pain in the poop chute to pack it around in the woods. If that doesn't work, I may go to a crossbow. Either way, I'll still be able to hunt. Just not like I normally would.

[saddlesore]

Probably never clicks 100% and as stated ,we always keep learning,but there comes a time when a person notices they are punching a tag or two every year instead of taking a hike in the woods. I am not talking about those hunts where some one else finds the elk for you and tells you where to shoot it and such.Strictly DIY .

Can I learn more sure, but my basic tactics lets me fill the freezer every year, or help some one else do it.

[snowbank]

It takes 15-20 years of steady hunting before you start to fully understand everything you should consider to be successful every year. you are still dependent on the weather and time on the ground. It's never easy. I also believe in a suffer index. It takes a lot of blood, sweat and tears to be successful on a steiady basis.

Saddlesore, I understand your problem . My shoulder socket is 50% ground out. Any replacement will limit my lifting capacity to 30 lbs. Bowhunting went away in 2001. Don't rush into the repair until you have to. They make horse shoers even I haven't found one I fully trust yet. So I limit myself to one horse a day. That way I can sleep at night without drugs. I just work with what I have left.