Bullets

[VT Sasquatch]

I have been using Nosler Ballistic Tips for deer for quite a few years. After a couple bad experiences with deer and a bad experience with a bear over the weekend, I have decided to a bullet with more penetration. I use a 30-06 and 308 so the bullets would be 30 caliber. I picked up a box of Accubonds in 165 grains and a box of Barnes VOR-TX (TTSX) in 150 grains for my 308 to test at the range. I intend to use them for deer and bear. I also got some 180 grain Federal Trophy Copper in 30-06. If they shoot accurately, my intention is to use them for elk and possibly moose if I ever draw a tag. I'm not committed to any of these loads. I bought a variety so I could get a feel for different types and check their accuracy.

Do you guys have any experience with these on big game? Any other suggested factory ammo that will retain its weight and consistently exit?

Thanks

[DBLGBL]

I shoot nosler partitions at everything. The 165 grain Accubond is a good bullet. I load this bullet in 140 grain for my brother in 280 & 7mm08 for deer. It is a controlled expansion bullet and does really well for him. I'm surprised that the ballistic tips gave you problems as a lot of people I know use them on deer.

2gbl

[VT Sasquatch]

I have killed quite a few deer with them but about 50% of the time there is no exit wound. I have had some issues with weak or non-existent blood trails. They are very accurate and have done okay but I lost a buck that I shot with one and now I lost a bear on Saturday. Both ran off without leaving a blood trail. Under the right conditions (open space and long shots) I am sure the ballistic tips are fine but I am done using them where I hunt.

I have read a lot of good things about the partitions. The store had them factory loaded by Federal but only in 180 grains. I didn't want to go that heavy in 308 (the rifle I plan to use for deer next week). I have also read that they are not particularly accurate but even if that is true, all of my shots at deer have been inside of 75 yards.

[saddlesore]

Can't ever go wrong with a Nosler partition in what ever weight flavor you want For .308 or 06, I'd stick with 165 or 180grs.
Watch Shooters Pro Shop and many times you can pick them up for $13-$14 a ox of 50. Blems or 2nds ,but they still perform the same.

[cohunter14]

If penetration is what you want, the Barnes is the way to go. Partitions and Accubonds work great as well though. My only other suggestion would be to use heavier bullets. If you have nothing but short shots, you might as well get as much energy as possible into the animal.

[Elkduds]

For more penetration you're on the right track w partitions, bonded and monolithic (Barnes, etc). Your rifles will tell you which they like the best via accuracy. I agree w your proposed bullet weights/caliber. Because of its high weight retention, Barnes 150 gr penetrates like a bonded 165 gr. And the bonded/partitions in 165 gr. penetrate like a cup/core (corelokt) 180 gr. Report back w your findings!

[Elkhntr08]

Both my 30-06 and 300 SAUM like the 180 Swift Scirocco. For that matter, every .30 that I've loaded it for has shot them well. Put one heck of a hole in game too.

[RAMMONT]

I took my elk this year using the Barnes 168gr TTSX in my .308 rifle. The kill shot was a perfect heart hit that went through the entire animal piercing a rib on the off side, the rib had a perfect round hole in it, the rib was not shattered. The heart was split in to four sections and it was not pulverized, I didn't loose any meat from the shot. My experience is that as long as you make an accurate kill shot the bullet will do the job, but if you are afraid that you might need an expanding bullet to make up for any aiming error then I'd go with the Nosler Accubond.

[husky390]

Barnes Vortex 168gr TTSX is what I use in my 308.

[Lefty]

Same advise I would have given.

I shot ballistic tips one year. Killed an antelope, mulie and a cow elk,(2002). The next year I went to Partitions
My next loads will be Barnes

[VT Sasquatch]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I may be weird but I like to pick one good load per rifle and keep using only that. That way, I don't have to re-zero before hunts. My plan is to find the right load in 150 or 165/168 for my 308 and a good 180 grain load for my 30-06. That way I should be covered for deer through moose.

I should have put more thought into this before. I always targeted whitetails. A couple of the ones I have shot out here have had big bodies (over 250 lbs live weight). I had never shot a bear but I see them from time to time. I went out to hunt them on a bit of a whim since I was unexpectedly free on Saturday. I didn't really expect to see one. The lack of planning / bullet selection is going to haunt me for a while.

I'm going to shoot the 308 on Saturday. Deer season opens here on Monday so I will use whichever (Barnes or Accubond) I am more accurate with. If both are accurate, I'll probably use the Barnes so I have enough penetration if I need it for bigger game in the future. (Believe it or not, there are black bears out here that weigh over 800 lbs). I'll post results if I get a shot at a buck. Thanks again.

[Lefty]

If your not shooting much thats a good idea. I dont know what distances your shooting but for your bear/ moose I would should a bigger load
those 220 drop

[VT Sasquatch]

Thanks for the tips. I don't shoot much these days so I don't like to change my scope often.

The chance of hunting moose is probably anlong way off. I am going to start entering the Maine and Vermont lotteries but the odds are low. I have been thinking about a new rifle though. I am considering a Browning BLR in 258 Winchester for tracking deer and bear and close up work with open sights. It might be a good thick cover gun.

Inhave done a lot of reading since blowing it on that bear. One thing that I have learned that I had not really thought about was that the Nosler Ballistic tips might be a good bullet for open country and linger shots. Althey have a good ballistiv coefficient, are accurate and expand well even at lower speeds like you'd have on long shots. I add this because I think I was blaming the bullet for my own poor choice. I hunt thick woods out here with regenerating logged areas. My shots at game have never exceeded 75 yards. I think I just picked the wrong bullet for the job.

Thanks again. I'll post results.

[Indian Summer]

I've shot everything under the sun with Nosler Partitions. No question they are the king of penetration .... in my book anyway. I'e always gotten complete pass throughs with them. In the interest of better long range accuracy I switched to Accubonds a couple seasons ago. I don't care for the way the lead tips on the Partitions get deformed in the box and the magazine and the Accubonds definitely shoot flatter and group tighter.

Like mentioned above I don't always get a pass through with Accubonds. That can mean a minimal blood trail. But ideally a bullet should expend all of it's energy inside the animal. A bullet that passes through technically had some energy left after it exits. The way I look at it is as long as I put the bullet where I should I don't need a blood trail. My last 2 elk both ran about 100 yard but make no mistake that's just because elk have big hearts and lungs and lots of blood in them. Those elk were dead before the first step. I'm sticking with the Accubonds. I know lots of other successful veteran elk hunters that shoot nothing else too.

[cohunter14]

But ideally a bullet should expend all of it's energy inside the animal. A bullet that passes through technically had some energy left after it exits. The way I look at it is as long as I put the bullet where I should I don't need a blood trail.

I agree with all of this...good post IS.

[Trumkin the Dwarf]

I shoot a 30-06 (Ackley Improved). My bullet of choice is the 168 grain TTSX by Barnes. The Barnes bullets used to have some expansion issues at low velocity, but I think they've corrected that with the newer polymer tips that start the rupture of the petals. If you can stomach the price, Barnes 150 grains will handle any deer/elk/black bear sized game. This is especially true if you get them stoked to a high velocity. And they won't fall apart. Period. You could bump up to the 165 or 168 grain if you like, but with the .308, I'd suggest the 150 for the little extra juice you can get.

[VT Sasquatch]

But ideally a bullet should expend all of it's energy inside the animal. A bullet that passes through technically had some energy left after it exits. The way I look at it is as long as I put the bullet where I should I don't need a blood trail.

I agree with all of this...good post IS.

I used to believe this but not anymore. I've learned first hand not to believe it. It's true that the maximum shock will come from a bullet that doesn't pass through but if the animal runs and leaves no blood, you have a big problem. An animal with a hole through his vitals won't go far and will leave a good blood trail.

[VT Sasquatch]

Update: I went to the range on Saturday and found that the Accubond and Barnes bullets were right on target at 100 yards. Both grouped well for me. I decided to hunt with the Accubonds. I got in the woods early and had a buck in front of me around 10:00 a.m. I aimed well and was very careful with my shot. When I squeezed the trigger, click. . . nothing else. It was a dud. The buck - 30 yards out - apparently heard it and stood still but was on alert. I quietly cycled another round in and took a quick shot at the buck concerned that he was going to run.

When I shot the buck ran down a small slope and jumped a down tree. As he landed he stumbled and I knew he was hit. I heard a crash in the briars and assumed that was him going down. I went over to where the buck had been standing when I shot and found this:



In my haste, I apparently failed to see a sapling right in front of the buck's vitals. I looked for blood and there was NONE. I followed where his hoofs dug in to run and found him dead about 30-35 yards from where he was shot. I searched again with my friend for blood and found none (did this in an effort to solve the mystery of why the bear that I shot left no blood trail). The bullet passed through the sapling and into the buck's vitals but did not exit. As a result, there was no blood trail. I am convinced that I will never again choose to use a bullet that will not exit. I know that that is what happened to the bear I shot last week.

Fortunately, the Accubond held together and killed the buck cleanly. I wasn't pleased by the dud round however.

[Indian Summer]

Was that dud a Nosler factory load?

If your shots are 250 yards or less the difference in accuracy between a Nosler Partition and their Accubonds is negligible. If I was hunting Montana I might opt for that. It's thicker there so my shots are shorter. Plus since an elk can be 20 feet away and you can't see it so I'll take the pass through for twice the blood trail. I do try to be careful not to bump the soft lead tips around so they don't get deformed.

In Wyoming my shots are commonly beyond 300 yards and potentially way further. I need the flatter trajectory and better accuracy of the polymer tip on the Accubonds. Plus I'm not as concerned about finding dead elk in the cover there. They often end up in the open.

If your shots are likely going to be 250 yards or less there's nothing wrong with those Partitions. They really shine if your bullet has a mind of it's own and you hit bone. That back end punches through anything. I've never hit bone other than ribs with an Accubond so I have no experience with their performance in that respect.

I'm definitely a fan of Nosler ammo nothing at all against other brands though. Berger bullets fly like fighter jets fast and flat!

[VT Sasquatch]

The dud was a Federal Premium round loaded with Accubonds. For $2.00 a shot I would expect it to fire.

I have shot the Nosler factory ammo and I've never had a dud.

[RAMMONT]

I used to be agree with the idea of the bullet needing to expend all of it's energy in the animal too but not any more.

Energy isn't what kills an animal when we puncture their body with a projectile, it's blood loss and the subsequent drop in blood pressure. If energy were the key then I'd bet that bow hunting wouldn't be as popular as it is.

Since blood loss is the key to killing a game animal then creating more blood loss will kill them quicker. Making two holes for blood to run out of will drain blood faster than making only one hole.

So choosing a bullet that penetrates the entire animal is actually a better choice to killing the animal as efficiently and humanely as possible.

[Yooper]

My Tikka T3 in .30-'06 absolutely loves Partitions. I'm sure the 165gr Partition might be overkill on whitetails from normally less than 100 yards, but I can't over kill them.

[cohunter14]

When it comes to elk, or any big game animal for that matter, all I'll say is in my experience, a bullet that expends all its energy in the elk kills faster than a bullet that penetrates through the elk. It can also make up for a less than perfect shot better than the penetrating round. Again, this is in my experience. I've chased too many blood trails searching for elk. I'd rather have them dead inside of 50 yards with a minimal blood trail than follow a blood trail for hundreds or more yards. I'd also rather have a bullet open up, lose some of its weight, and even fragment inside of an elk than have a bullet retain all its weight while having minimal expansion. Remember, a bigger wound channel doesn't always just come from shooting a larger caliber.

Every elk I've shot where the bullet didn't exit, the elk died inside of 50 yards, with the exception of this year's bull...it dropped in its tracks and tumbled downhill about 100 yards

My two cents...