What Happened?

[Swede]

I shot a critter and made what I thought was a good hit. I could see the last 7"-8" of the shaft, with the fletching, sticking out of the side of the animal. It ran for a hundred to 200 yards, then went out of sight in the brush. After following the blood trail I came to a spot where the arrow shaft was broken off with the end lying on the ground. This experience has happened to me twice, and I saw it on another occasion. The result has always been the same. From experience can anyone tell me what followed? What happened?
Since what resulted in this situation has been always the same, I will wait awhile before I tell the "rest of the story" as Paul Harvey used to say.

[olympushunt]

My guess (and no folks, I do not have any insider info lol) is that what you thought was "good" hit...wasn't. That might sound simple but it has to be the truth. At least in my mind anyway. If you make a solid punch into vital organs with a razor sharp broadhead ie lungs and/or heart....they die. They don't run a quarter mile, live for 2 hours etc. They die....quickly at that. It is very humane and fast. Swede, you sure you used your bheaded arrow on that? lol.
If I had to guess I would say you were high and tight. Like that bull you called in for me a long time ago in the bottom of that hell hole. I'm glad he got away no worse for the wear....cept maybe a sore shoulder. Didn't want to pack your nasty behind out anyway! I didn't have much time to range and this was back in the day we had those cheesey range finders you had to line up the....uh...lines and get a range that way. Anyway, I tried crowding his shoulder due to brush and was off on my distance. I hit him in "no mans" land, high and so close to the top shoulder he snapped my arrow off when his shoulder/front leg came back to run off. I saw him later that day and he wasn't even limping.
That's my guess. I don't think they are mythical creatures that can take a "good" hit like you thought you had and stay up.
Btw...I'm editing my guess. If the broken arrow piece was found next to where he was shot then I'm sticking with my first guess. If it was found further "down the road" he must broke it off in the brush or by other means. Either way it couldn't have been a "good" hit.

[Swede]

Oly, you are at least right in part. The hit was not as good as it looked to my brother (your uncle) and me. Still it wasn't bad enough that I believe he survived. That aside what happened after the arrow was broke off? I have seen this situation a couple of times before, so I instantly knew what was to follow. Hint: My brother saw the broken arrow and the blood and thought it was a good sign. I knew it wasn't and said so. BTW, I believe they break off the arrow with their hind leg and not the brush or trees. If it was broke off by brush, the broken part would be next to heavy brush or a tree. There would be blood on the bush. These pieces of arrow are located in the open.

[olympushunt]

I will settle for partly right. That's as much as I am usually right at home. lol
So if you are thinking it was the back leg breaking the arrow you must have been back further....like the green bag. The part I don't agree with on that theory is when they get hit there....even if it isn't a lethal (right away) shot they still don't go far AT all. They don't feel awesome and won't go far initially unless pushed. I'm confused and the sucky part is you will never know exactly where it was in relation to vitals.

[Swede]

George (my bro.) and I both saw the arrow sticking out of the side of the critter and agreed within an inch of where we saw it at. It was a little back of ideal and depending on which one of us was right it was center elevation or an inch high. It was definitely not a gut shot. If it was it would have bedded nearby. Both of us believed immediately the animal would soon die. We still believe it died in that area, but that is not what I am trying to find out. What happens after the arrow breaks off 200+ yards from where the animal is hit?
I have found arrows broke off near the location where the animal was hit. That is not entirely the same.
In all the cases I remember, the wound sealed up soon, or even immediately after being broken, and the blood trail ended. What has been other's experience? Are you seeing a good blood trail leading to the animal after your arrow is broken off? In the cases I remember I did not have a pass through enough to break the hide on the exit side. That may be a duh statement as the arrow remained out far enough to be broke off.
When we found the broken arrow and the blood nearby, George thought it a good sign. Based on previous experience, I said "no". This will be the end of the blood trail, and it was. We could not find one more drop, so we fanned out and went from there to no avail.

[TonyOI]

Swede,

I'm going to reopen some bad memories and mistakes I made. A few years back I shot a bull and started tracking too quickly after the shot. My arrow was "blown" out for whatever reason very quickly after he took off from the spot of impact. There was maybe 8-10" (maybe 10-12" don't exactly remember) of penetration according to the blood on the shaft. The entire arrow came out, BH and all. Blood was fantastic in my opinion until I bumped him... This is when it all went downhill. This was my first ever shot on an elk so I decided to call some guys who had been killing elk long before I even began to hunt them. We tracked this bull for a little over 17 hours after the shot and then the season ended. In their opinion they thought that the bull would recover and that he was still alive... I went back 7 months later after the snow had melted and picked up from my last mark of known blood on the GPS. I found his remains shortly after. He laid dead almost 1 mile (according to GPS) from the spot I made my shot. It still makes me sick to this day and this happened several years ago; I truly think about it every day. Shoulda, woulda, coulda... If I handled the situation differently after the shot would I have recovered this bull before all that was left was bones?! (Thank you for reading and baring with me.)

I guess my point is, if you can take anything away from my situation and the mistakes I made to help prevent you from making similar ones after the shot then please do. Did this just happen? Do you think there was enough time between the shot and tracking that he could bed down and expire without being pushed? I'm not suggesting there wasn't or bashing... just asking. One thing I might add that I believe is a benefit for you is, if that BH is still in him then it should still be moving around some and cutting. I don't know if I am being any help but hopefully something can be taken away from my mistakes. Don't give up, stay patient but be persistent (while remaining smart about the situation), and as always, remain humble. Best of luck and I hope things fall in your favor.

Tony

[Swede]

Thanks Tony. I likely went after him too soon. If we misjudged where the hit was, then going too soon was likely huge in the loss. The incident is over. The broadhead stayed in the animal. I really don't mind criticism if it is constructive and helps make me or someone a better hunter. Name calling with nothing to offer is never helpful. I appreciate your perspective.
That you had a good blood trail after the arrow broke off is different than I suspected. Sometimes it is difficult to determine from only very few experiences if what we are seeing is coincidence or common.
Again thanks.

[olympushunt]

I think if you were to poll people on their animals blood trail volume after a broken arrow you would find a decent split. Some animals would give a great blood trail still and some not. This has more to do with WHAT was hit than the arrow being broken. I also think you will find an extremely poor blood trail with an entry hole above any compromised arteries/organs and no exit hole on the animal....like tree stand peeps might experience with no complete pass through. Gravity will cause that blood to pool in their chest cavity leaving a poor if any blood trail. Swede, was your other animal with a broken shaft, that left a poor blood trail, from a stand? I really don't think a person can take stock in what a blood trail will be like every time he finds a broken shaft. That last bull I killed the shaft was broke but he left a freeway of blood. I say this with respect and am not being the slightest bit critical because you did nothing wrong. But I disagree with it being a good hit regardless of what you guys agreed on. Animals die when their circulatory system collapses. If you hit vital organ(s) or a major artery this happens rapidly. Even a small caliber artery like a femoral will lead to massive blood loss and system failure. Now if you hit the heart, collapse lungs or hit a large lumen artery such as the aorta, pulmonary artery, carotid (if you are crazy enough to aim at the neck or make a poor shot an hit there) then they will go down quickly. They won't go far. Period. Like I said, I am not being critical just trying to be constructive as you were wondering if the broken shaft was an automatic doom sentence for recovery of said critter. You took an ethical shot and it didn't pan out. I truly feel you didn't connect with anything that caused a systemic failure right away. That bull I was talking about that I killed last...I still to this day kick myself for taking that shot. Dumb. It was a terrible idea he was quartering strong away and I was hoping to thread the needle. To complicate matters I knew the situation was going to blow up any second and had to make a spit second decision without ranging. DUMB! I went for it and I honestly wish I could have a do over as I guessed badly on the distance. I feel bad that I allowed myself to do it. My arrow hit low and right and to my horror I saw it hit him in the back leg! He let out a yip and ran. God was smiling on me that day though as I hit that darn femoral....an artery the size of a pencil! He sprayed like a stuck hog. I didn't know that though and was steaming when I told TIm what happened. He was so good though keeping my hopes up. I heard that bull fall 100 yards away and still was convinced that was not the sound I heard as I just knew I made a terrible shot. I was convinced he would just have a sore leg and be fine.
My thoughts on going after an animal is DON"T for a minimum of 30 minutes unless you SEE it go down. I don't care how good you think you smacked him. 30 minutes will do zero harm to that meat but if you go in 10 minutes you might be making an epic mistake that was NOT necessary!

[Swede]

Oly: Yes, the other time I had the broken arrow; the bull was shot from a tree stand.
Your line about where we thought I made the hit reminds me of the old Groucho Marx line. "Are you going to believe me or your stupid lying eyes?" If it was just my eyes, I would be having doubts even though the arrow stuck out clearly. Since George saw it too, it must have been very close to where we both thought we saw it. I completely understand and agree the arrow did not hit any major arteries. As I second guess the situation, I am starting to believe it was a little too far back for a quick kill. I agree that I got on the trail too soon. I know the 30 minute rule, but I was so sure it was dead nearby all I needed to do was get out my camera and knife. Rats!

[>>>---WW---->]

I had something similar to what you described a few years ago. It may not be exactly like you described as I found about 10 inches of the broadhead end which I believe snapped off when the elk whirled around to flee. I actually watched him as he was (walking away) on a game trail for close to 200 yards. He didn't act injured or alarmed while walking. I found very little blood. Only a drop here and there. I searched for three days but never recovered him. I forgot to mention there was no noticeable blood on the broken shaft. Only a clear looking fluid !

A few weeks later I was at the local vets office and I questioned him about my shot. He brought up an X ray of a very large dog that showed when the animal exhaled, there is a small void area about the size of a tennis ball, between the top of the lungs and the diaphragm. This is located midway up on the body and a little back. But had the lungs been inflated, I would have clipped both of them. The vet figured I must have hit that void area at just the right time causing no damage. And the very few blood spots were superficial from the entrance cut through the skin.

[Swede]

Thanks Bill for the explanation. I have really been perplexed as well as pained about that hit. Your explanation of what you experienced sounds very similar to what happened to me. I know I hold back a little far when I shoot an animal. Thanks.

[olympushunt]

What Bill talked about sounds like the classic "No Mans Land." No harm done to the critter there. Other than a sore spot. Swede, you have killed tons of elk with a bow and a number of deer too but don't forget the size of the critter is very very important. You have a lot more room for error with an elk and holding back of the front shoulder to give yourself more leeway is not a bad plan necessarily. You hold back on an elk 4-5 inches from the front shoulder and you should be in the money if you are off a bit either way. But on a deer, if you error just another few more inches back you are flirting with disaster....in my opinion. I would crowd that shoulder more. You can punch through some degree of shoulder on a deer easier than an elk too. Do you think that could have been the problem on that cougar a few years back? You pin that cat too close to the shoulder and that still is going to be a dead kitty. I'm not talking about the cat I scared to death by meowing at him either. That reminds me guys....if you are ever in a situation where you don't have a gun, bow or rock and you have a mt lion in your presence just meow at them. THAT scares the moose poop out of them. Just make sure your partner isn't trying to shoot them. They might get mad you blew it for them. Oooooops!

[Swede]

Oly, I remember that meow. It was funny then and now. No harm, no foul.

What happened is I overshot a cougar, but the stupid thing acted like nothing. It just continued to walk along, so I got out another arrow when I hear a "meow" coming from Oly's tree sand. That put the fear in the kitty and it left the country immediately.

[CurlyTail]

I have become quite a fan of lighted nocks. Not for the purpose of recovering my arrow, but to allow me to see exactly where the arrow hit with more confidence and precision.

If you can see exactly where you hit the Elk, you can make better decisions regarding the tracking.

I also think it is good to optimize your Elk arrow for maximum penetration. This means a little more weight, skinny arrows, and a long tapered broadhead with fewer blades. Anything that does not get a complete pass through is less than ideal.

[Tigger]

My thunk on this situation is to ask how the critter was positioned. Was it broadside?

Here is the reason I ask, many times people think a critter is broadside and in fact there is a slight quartering (in this case, possibly a slight quartering to you?). that could explain how your arrow hit where you thought it did, but it angled back through the critter and not straight through like a perfectly broadside hit would have. Just an idea you could mull over as you think about this for the umpteenth time.

[jmez]

As others have said, you didn't hit where you thought and you didn't make a good shot into the vitals. I've shot a lot of animals with a bow. You hit them correctly they very rarely make it out of site. If they do they are dead just beyond where you last saw them and you don't need a blood trail to find them.

Disclaimer, I'm making a general statement and not accusing anyone. I'm a large animal surgeon by trade so have a very intimate knowledge of anatomy, and more importantly, topographical anatomy. Most hunters have a rudimentary understanding of anatomy at best. They have even less understanding of topographical anatomy, which is where things are located, and how they are positioned in a living, moving animal on it's feet. A great number of shots simply don't hit where you think they did and what you think they did. The only way to really know what happened in these situations is to recover the animal and then carefully dissect the arrow and see exactly where it hit, what it hit and the relationship to nearby organs/structures. Anything else is simply a guess, and an uneducated one at that.

As for the arrow, the deer reached around and bit it and broke it off. That is how you end up with portions of broken shafts on the ground. There aren't many places and arrow can lodge in a critter and create a pinch point that is going to break and arrow shaft off. I have seen two deer and a coyote reach back, grab them, and break them off with their mouth. If they can get to them they will bite them. An arrow has to bend at close to 90 degrees before they snap. When they are in a semi fluid media there aren't many situations where that can happen.