Scouting Idaho

[elkchaser54]

So does anyone have experience using wescout4u.com ? For $800 or so they scout a unit out for you and tell you where to camp and where they saw elk and how to hunt the areas. I'm starting to plan a trip to Idaho for next year and this seems like a pretty cool service for a small investment.

[olympushunt]

No experience using that service. I suppose if a guy was short on time and long on funds it would be better than nothing....and you are right about that being a small cost in the grand scheme of elk hunting. BUT, unless you are gettin first hand "on the ground" intel, I'm betting you could do most of what they do for FREE. I could be wrong. I won't talk smack about a service I don't know about. Anyway, my point is you can do a ton of scouting yourself from the comforts of your desk. Case in point....in 2013 I killed a nice bull in an OTC public land unit in Oregon that I had NEVER set foot in before. All my scouting was done from my desk. I killed him within the first two hours of the first day I hunted. Did I get super lucky? Hell ya....but I did stack the deck by putting in a ton of hours scouting from home.

[Lefty]

I use to run into some boys in Utah,. Pictures and locations for some specific big bucks and moose bulls. If you are not from the mountain states, limited times to hunt, newer to the area it could be a bargain.

If you dont have all the gear and it isnt an annual thing going with a guide or even drop camp can put you years ahead

[Indian Summer]

Olympus I whole heartedly disagree. Nothing... I mean NOTHING compares to boots on the ground. Some of the most important factors can't be determined on a computer. Sign, pressure, effects of predators, spots where other hunters obviously camp, wallows, rubs, game trails, blowdowns, the little seeps of water that elk love that aren't on maps. The good stuff! The list goes on. There are 1000s of hunters who will tell you that when they showed up at their "extensively scouted spot" it was a whole other world from what they saw online.

I think the service is worth it as long as the guy knows what he is doing and is good at conveying the details to his customers. Money is one aspect but time is another. Even if some of us could afford to fly out and get a first hand look who has the time? We might just use that time to extend our hunt too if we had it right?

One thing I would do though is ask if he has spots in mind. I think I might rather pick the spot from some good solid first hunt info and then let him do the legwork. I would already know my area pretty good and I'd be sure to point out places or elevations that I wanted him to check out. Also I'd tell him to log waypoints for me to avoid confusion. Maybe take a map and mark it up while he is out and about. In other words don't be too lazy. You'll get out of it what you put into it and I think if you did some homework of your own first you'd get a better bang for your buck.

I've killed lots of bulls in places I had never seen. But I've also taken horses into areas that looked like gold mines and never saw a track or terd for days and have no idea why. Heck.... if anyone is interested in that I have a really good friend or two in Montana and Wyoming that would do that and maybe for less money.

One comment though.... I sell hunt plans as many of you know. But a guy can't learn everything is a weekend. My information is hands on from experience DURING hunting season. The real deal. You shouldn't expect him to know how to most effectively hunt and area if he hasn't seen where the elk are at that time of year AND under no pressure. It's great info no doubt but be realistic with your expectations because of that. I have to wonder if he uses horses. That speeds up the learning curve. When I prospect new areas I hunt it from the truck but also set a camp several miles in. To do that in a relatively short amount of time horses are a must.

[wunder6]

My group used them this year on a new area and couldn't have been happier with them. Not to say we couldn't have done what they did but with limited time to hunt and being 1600 miles away it worked great. We ended up with 1 out of 3 getting a bull but the number of elk we seen and encountered was well worth the $800(I'd post a picture if I could figure out that resizing thing). You can PM me and I can go into more detail if you like.

[olympushunt]

IndianSummer, no disagreement there. I completely agree with you. In fact if you carefully read my post I said UNLESSS you are getting "on the ground intel" I am wondering outloud how worth that $800 information will be. It is just plain ignorance on my part not knowing how much "on the ground" intel they provide. I know there are services out there that will provide information say for example...If i wanted to hunt the Wenaha unit in Oregon and they are based out of the area (out of state even) completely. They can give a guy great info on public land access, road closures, camp areas, elk population stats, harvest stats, hunter numbers, unit size per hunter, feeding grounds, bedding areas, springs/wallows, trails, etc etc. That is very valuable info for sure....but info I can get for free. That was my only point. I don't think for a second my computer will out do getting info first hand from somebody who knows that ground first hand. On thing I do know Joe, you are VERY experienced and if you sold me intel on areas you have knowledge of.....THAT is worth every penny. Another thing I agree with that you and Lefty pointed to. If I had limits on my chances to hunt an out of state area continually I would really really consider doing a drop camp hunt. I have a buddy who used outfitters in Idaho for a drop from horses and he killed a nice bull. That isn't as spendy as a full guided hunt but can really get a guy into an area with elk. I've also heard that outfitters can drop guys in suboptimal spots compared to their "honey holes" they save for the customers paying the big bucks fully guided. Don't know if that is true but that makes sense I guess.

[Swede]

Some of the most important factors can't be determined on a computer. Sign, pressure, effects of predators, spots where other hunters obviously camp, wallows, rubs, game trails, blow downs, the little seeps of water that elk love that aren't on maps.

I agree, but does the paid "scout" give that information in the packet you receive (August 12) three weeks before you leave for elk camp? Heck no. The scout is obviously going out and putting boots on the ground in the unit you enlisted his services for, and giving you about three or four days worth of his labor. You are paying for his labor, vehicle, supplies and per diem. Does that include the time he travels, and sets up and dismantles his camp? Hopefully he is going to put in a day reading maps and Google Earth. He is doing the on the ground work in June or July so you get a packet of information by early August. Obviously the scout can't cover an entire unit and give any meaningful intelligence on it. The scout may be clueless about the conditions in any part of your area during your hunting time. They can go out and find you a decent hunting area and get you started.
Personally I would rather save my $800 and call someone like Indian Summer and ask for a trailer camp or drop camp map and plan, for a good area he is familiar with. I.S. is not going out to scout "your unit", but is sharing information from personal experiences based on years of hunting and guiding. He is pointing you to the area he recommends instead of scouting your unit. BTW. What happens when the fellow scouting your unit doesn't find what you are looking for? His report reads "Your unit stinks. You should go somewhere else."

[Indian Summer]

Haha Swede... I love my fellow realists. I guess it's a bit of a gamble but so is a guided hunt or ay diy hunt right? Hell... every elk hnt is a dang gamble!

Out the door for Wyoming in 3...2...1 seconds. Gone! Wish me luck!

Need anything scouted?

[Swede]

There you have it folks different points of view on a real world question. I love it. There is no name calling and no question about intelligence. This forum is great. Now you can make a decision on how you want to invest your $800. Best wishes and best wishes to you I.S. I hope you both have a great hunt.

[Brendan]

One comment - I have zero first hand experience with the service, but wescout4u is run by Robby Denning from Rokslide. In my experience, and from what I've seen from him - a very honorable and nice guy who is very free with his advice over there (I really only surf 3 hunting forums - Here, Rokslide, and HuntTalk - Randy Newberg's forum). He's helped me out with advice on several topics similar to what you get from people here. Robby also is a hell of a mule deer hunter and his book is worth a read.

So - not necessarily disagreeing with any commentary above, but food for thought as you make your decision. Also - this is coming from someone who had a hunt plan from Joe this year, which I would, and may, do again. (Story coming, I've just been lazy getting pictures organized....)

[wunder6]

I guess I will go into a little more detail. I talked to the scout that Robby recommended a few times before settling on an area. As my group didn't really care where we went, we told Jim we are up for any area that has good elk. His response was I've got an area but you've got to be in shape, and he wasn't kidding. So we settled on an area and we had quite a few phone conversations about the area after I had some time to look over Google Earth, a map he had sent me, and a few that I had purchased. He told me of water holes and springs not on maps, where other hunting pressure would likely come from, bedding areas, and a ton of other bits of info. After the phone conversations all that was left was for him to actually go out and scout which he did about a week or so before we arrived. He called me after he got back and we went over all that he found. Then emailed me the coordinates of all the spots he had spotted elk and I hooked up my GPS to the labtop, loaded it all in and away we went. I can honestly say that nearly everything he said was correct and the elk where were he said. We got one of three which we were thrilled with, could it have been better, sure but thats hunting and we are fairly new. I would recommend the service to anybody, $800 is alot but whats 2 or 3 days worth of scouting when you have only 7 for the year.

[Swede]

With all due respect, I don't see what the last two posts have to do with having a person scout the unit of my choosing. Going to a place that a scout recommends based on prior experience is a totally different proposition. I could give $800 worth of information on some spots in Oregon, but it would represent less than 5% of the possible hunt areas. It would be places I already know. It all comes down to; do you want me to scout your area, or do you want to hunt one I have already scouted?

[Brendan]

Swede, with all due respect, maybe you didn't understand the original post. The first question asked about "wescout4you", and the last 2 posts addressed that question as opposed to generalizations about a type of service and your opinion of value.

I referred to my direct experience with one of the owners, and the last response was someone who used the service.

Many different ways to get it done, but I think there's a place for services like Robby's as there is for something like Indian Summer / Joe's... Especially for those of us that don't live in elk country...

[olympushunt]

I think this is all my fault fellas. I didn't realize that the service from "wescout4u" was a service giving intimate "boots on the ground intel" from areas they know already Vs a service that would take an area you are interested in and doing the recon on it for you. Honestly I didn't even know there were either of those services available. I can really see merits of both. For me personally I would either keep the $800 and buy gear I will have forever or kick in some extra to do a drop camp for an area I likely will never go back to. I can't afford to do a lot of out of state hunts.....time or money wise. I went to the wescout website and probably should have looked at what they do first. They send you to areas they have detailed knowledge of already. That could be worthy. I don't doubt they try to get more business by making customers happy.

[Swede]

For $800 or so [url]they scout a unit out for you[/url]and tell you where to camp and where they saw elk and how to hunt the areas.

What I underlined sounded to me like he is scouting personally for you. Regardless, Elkchaser wants to know if the $800 is a good investment. I don't know Robby Denning, and have no issue with him. What I am addressing is will you get $800 worth of useful information for the unit you are interested in, from your scout. How many other hunters is your scout providing that information to?
Some things I did not see in the original post that would be critical to any provider of scouting information includes, type of hunt (rifle or bow or ?) dates of hunt, hunting style, conditioning and number of hunters, and camp plans. I am sure any reputable scout would want that information. If someone is providing over the counter information for a unit, is it specific to your needs? Was he there recently during that time and hunting the same way you will? If you are hunting October; I hope for your sake Robby has been there enough during multiple Octobers to assure you he knows good October hunt locations. They are often not the same as September hunt locations. Let the buyer beware.
No offence intended here friends, but personally I would not invest one of my forever stamps on that kind of service, but it is not my stamp. Have a great hunt.

[elkchaser54]

YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME!!!!!! this forum is so much better then most out there. I feel like the bullshit meter isn't constantly going off and people can have intelligent discussions about a topic.

Anyways, Its just me and my dad elk hunting and we have all the stuff to do a DIY elk hunt from the road. As in we have a full camp setup but no horses or stuff to hike back 6 miles to set up a spike camp. My dad lives in SE Washington (myself I'm in Seattle) and Idaho is pretty close but time off for either of us is very difficult so having someone put a plan together for us is pretty appealing. The only reason I chose ID is closer to home and tags are less expensive then MT or WY but I am not stuck in my choices. Just in the beginning planning stages and asked if anyone knew of this service. Thank you all for the information btw.

For me I like getting away from people but a drop camp at $2000/ person is quite a bit more of an investment then doing the $800 total for someone to help outline the hunt and give information about a unit that they have scouted in previous years. I haven't spoke with them yet, but obviously we would have a discussion about what unit they feel would fit with our style of hunting and what weapon we will be using. Lets just call it using a "travel agent." They will help me put a travel plan together about where to camp and few spots to help us get in some elk.

And Olympus if you ever want info about the Weneha units in Washington just let me know! I have hunted them for 5 years in a row now.

Indian summer what areas do you offer your elk hunting consultation in?

[olympushunt]

Thanks Elkchaser! I may just take you up on that! The more I looked at that wescout website the more I think it would be a worthy investment as they can get you years ahead of the curve and put you in elky spots from the get go. I would ask if they would provide 1:24k maps instead of 1:100k maps. The 1:24k maps are a lot more detailed. You could always order your own custom maps from mytopo.com once you have narrowed down the area you will be in. I've done that for areas I hunted from scratch so to speak and they are super helpful when you are in the field.

[Dr. Rx]

I can tell you from experience, I have used Joe's service for many of the reason's mentioned.
I don't live in elk country and the reality is you can do all the google scouting you want.. in the end you need boots on the ground...ground intel...

I think a service like that is very cheap and worthwhile, because it can save you years of frustration and accelerate your elk knowledge tremendously.

In addition, it gets you out there with a plan.. even if the plan doesn't work out, you still have a plan to work with and you get to experience elk hunting as opposed to aimlessly walking about with no hope in sight.

Finally, I know I can afford a guide service, but my god, they are charging an arm and leg for their services... The average wyoming guide is at least 5 k. that doesn't include your tag.. by the time your done, it can run you close to 6 -7 k... I can do all of that my self.. i just don't know the area and i'm willing to get No elk and DIY, rather than giving all that cash to a guide...
The funny thing is they are guiding in national forest as well.. where you and I are hunting...They are not guiding on private property (remember that as well)..

So in summary, again 800 $ is cheap and I like services like this.. they provide an important market for people like me who don't have much time, don't know the area and don't live in elk country.

Kris