How can I work around this situation

[82ndreddevil]

I mentioned these occurrences in the post about "my 2nd NM archery elk" but it did not get any traction. But this has me really curious and I want to get some feedback from you veterans. The rut never really seemed to happen. The elk were only vocal from about 0700-0800 in the mornings and that is it. Every now and then a late morning location bugle would trigger a few responses. What I experienced was that really only the younger bulls would come into calls. But the bigger bulls would hang up and expect you to come to them. Once I got to a point where I felt they were within 100 yards I would sometimes spot them in the thick brush and I would hang tight and they would often send out cows or spikes to come check me out. This is where I got busted. First, why are spikes hanging out with big bulls in mid September? But is there anyway to work around this? I am guessing that the only way would be to try to anticipate when they were gonna push out spikes and get a decoy up behind me and see if the spikes give the all clear for the bull. But then trying to war game these guys actions to that extent seems very hard to do. And it is not that I got busted cause the spikes picked up on me, it was more of an issue that the spikes found no cow where there was supposed to be a cow. What do you guys think?

[Indian Summer]

Spikes aren't like small branch antlered bulls. I don't consider them to be satellite bulls. They will spend the entire year with the cow/calf herds and bigger bulls will tolerate them. If they cross the line they'll find out pretty quick what the rules are and may even stay on the fringes of the herd because of that.

As far as short windows of opportunity that can be a result of really warm weather as well as hunting pressure or predation. It can also be the trend for a given area. The elk where I hunt in Wyoming hang out in the open way longer in the morning and come out to feed earlier than where I hunt in Montana.

[Swede]

It is my observation that big bulls don't get excited about even 5x5 or smaller 6x6 bulls until things heat up for the rut. I see them all together at the ranch near where I hunt all the time. If the cows are not near or entering estrus, there I no problem for them. The big boys will send them packing as soon as they sense the need.
The big bulls don't send out spies either. They just stick close to their cows and let the smaller bulls check out the caller. The small bulls are curious and will look around.
Probably the best way to get a big bull to leave his cows is to present a threat to his herd dominance. There are some threads on that on this forum, or you can check out what Elknut has had to say on that subject. His Playbook and DVDs speak to it in detail.

[82ndreddevil]

Thanks for the replies fellas! I appreciate it.
Yea I did try the threat level 1 as shown in "Worse than wolves". I am sure it is to my own fault that it didn't work. As for the big Bulls don't send out spies, you know I wouldn't have believed it if it didn't happen in front of me. I saw the bull stop in the brush outside bow range, then two spikes came out right next to him and searched the area for this cow. Once they returned he turned around and walked away. It did not appear random, it seemed very deliberate in how it went down.