How do wolves affect elk hunting?

[NorthIDTLH]

I've been hearing for awhile now about how wolves affect elk hunting, especially when it comes to calling. Are elk really quieter during the rut because their calls attract wolves? If so, can someone offer advice on locating elk. I hunt in Idaho and it seems like wolves are here to stay and taking over more and more territory. Short of extermination, how do others hunt elk in wolf infested woods?

My goal is to stay positive. I'm well aware most people want to kill all the wolves, and I don't necessarily disagree. I just like keeping my hunting privileges and staying out of prison!

I just bought the Elknut playbook. I appreciate the information in it, which makes me curious what he has to add on this topic...

[twinkieman]

Where I hunt, there are wolves, and the elk are still vocal.

[Gypsumreaper]

Where I hunt there are no wolves I hope they never make it here, I've never heard of them making elk quieter, but I wouldn't doubt it, in my area what makes the elk quieter is hunters, no I'm not saying bad calling, good calling or to much calling. What it is for us is stopping ur vehicle or 4 wheeler calling waiting a few minutes and then driving another couple hundred yards and trying again. Over the past 5 archery seasons I have seen this and had it happen to me to many time and the herds have all really quieted down. Until you get real deep into the woods. That being said I'm not sure if the wolves would affect it unless the elk are being harassed by the wolves during the rut, they have to adapt and if going silent helps keep them from getting chased around and killed I could definetly see it happening. My advice on locating quiet elk, is how I've been hunting the past few years getting to areas that seem elky and finding sign. I can't always get deep into the woods so sometimes I am closer to roads and I don't want to attract other hunters. When I do find good elk sign and want to try and locate elk I do the cold style setup just no calls, I take trees stomp the ground, scrape the ground make elk noises that aren't big elk noises. They can hear a lot and I have watched 2 bulls find each other from opposite sides of a gulch by one raking and pawing a tree. They were both silent but they could hear each other and the bull with the cows knew the other was a threat and he went to take care of business was really cool. It changed a lot of my hunting game. You don't always need vocalizations to attract elk... Sometimes you just need to seem like an elk


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[Ridgernr]

We have had wolf problems in the past and it does change the elk behavior to some degree
The elk were quieter and the herds were smaller , just as many elk , only we had 4s and 5s running
The herds . Smaller bulls running smaller herds and the herds were scattered. They were also
Skittish , running from calls that we have used for years . The last few years have been great
Elk are back to normal seems the wolves are gone or taken care . Don't know for sure but I think the elk do get used them
eventually .

[ElkNut1]

Good question! It depends who you ask! (grin) You can get a lot of different opinions because all hunters do not hunt the same way or the same areas. Yes, wolves like any predator can have an impact, problem with many hunters is if not finding action they are quick to blame the wolves instead of hunting harder & smarter! Sure they take down elk but hunting is still pretty darned good if you go in with a positive & determined attitude. The elk still bugle when the time is right like any OTC Public Land units. We too hunt a lot of high pressured elk units & rely on a lot of methods of use. Still # 1 for finding bulls is through bugling by a mile. Nothing will replace that during Sept & much of Oct. Once elk are located the hunting begins, we do not continue to call once located instead we get over to them as quick as possible. That last 150 yards is the meat & potatoes of ones archery elk hunt. How it's handled is determined by that lone bull or or a bull with cows. The lone bull is probably cruising for the groups with a hot cow so he's fairly easy to get to commit, playing on his # 1 weakness works well, his curiosity!

If a herd bull then it must be determined whether there's a hot cow in the group or not, this will dictate our strategy for him. Wolves or no wolves our techniques stay the same & we take as many bulls today as when they were introduced here 23 years ago. Sure it's a different challenge but elk hunting is challenging anyway. Go at it with a positive attitude & a bag of tricks especially if you're a runner & gunner of elk & you will have your opportunities!

ElkNut1

[Heartwood]

About 7 or 8 years ago, during the first week of Sept., I had an interesting and eye opening encounter with wolves and elk. I was hunting solo and had spotted a very nice bull with cows who were all bedded. After watching them on and off for an hour, I decided to try a stalk and slip in close with no calling at all. This is before I had any knowledge of Elknut methods. During the stalk I had to drop down, cross a stream and climb up a groove to get close. When I crossed the stream I filled my water and continued on. The stalk took maybe 20 minutes and when I located my markers, I saw no elk where there should have been. I slipped up to the spot where the bull was bedded and could now hear what was going on. What I heard was the bull now in the bottom of the canyon bugling, trying to regather his cows who were now cow calling from various scattered locations, but why! What had happened during my stalk? The answer came next when the wolves started to howl just a short distance down canyon. The bull continued to try to regather and if I had another 15 minutes of shooting light I would have slipped in and called that bull in. Right at dark I could hear clearly, the wolves ran another elk down through the dark timber and across o beaver pond. When they got to the other side they caught up to the poor beast and tore into it as it bawled and shreaked until finally, silence then more howling. Through all this the bull continued to bugle and attempt to gather his cows! What I could tell by listening to all the elk talk going on during this encounter is that, when scattered and broken, cow calf pairs start to talk a lot to get back together. The calf talk was frantic and non-stop. I believe the wolves homed in on the very vulnerable calves and took them down. All the while the bull bugled, all hopped up on testosterone, he must have had only breeding urges in mind and little fear of the wolves. The memory still raises the hair on the back of my neck. I was not worried or afraid of the wolves at all, but the sound of their prey as they rip and tear, is unforgetable. Anyway, I think that when elk are rutting, they do not go silent, they do what they have always done over the millennium. Elk evolved with wolves and the time that wolves were absent from the American west was only a short blink of the eye in time. We continue to hunt elk with wolves present and hear pleanty of vocal bulls and cows. When we do encounter wolves and hear no elk bugles I believe that the elk have moved out and we need to look elsewhere. The elk do not, in our experience, move as far as we once thought when pushed or harassed by predators in general.

[Timber]

I will NEVER see anything positive when it has to do with wolves and elk hunting(or moose, deer, ect). I have found elk are harder to call, find and kill now after wolves move in. Can I keep a positive attitude towards the hunt? Yes. Can I realistically say anything positive has come out of the reintroduction of these mangy vermin? None, 0, ziltch. I do not have unlimited amounts of time when I get the chance to head out west so constantly moving camp or packing into a new area burns up precious time. I have seen areas that were loaded with elk for years be completely decimated of all elk and elk sign three years later after these mangy beasts moved in. Another thing I am positive about is it was one HUGE mistake to introduce wolves back into the lower 48. Just my 2 cents about how I feel about these nasty critters! I positively hate them!!

[ElkNut1]

Certainly agree with the wolf introduction being foolish & a big mistake but they're here & we move forward! I really don't see a big impact with them these days with the elk, they bugle about as normal as ever. More hunting pressure today than 20 years ago so elk are elk they can adapt to both!

ElkNut1

[Timber]

Certainly agree with the wolf introduction being foolish & a big mistake but they're here & we move forward! I really don't see a big impact with them these days with the elk, they bugle about as normal as ever. More hunting pressure today than 20 years ago so elk are elk they can adapt to both!

ElkNut1

I must have to find new areas then. I am hoping we can move forward with less wolves! It is a lot of money to pay for tags in MT and after my last hunt there I will find it really hard to go back. I want to go back but very hesitant to waste money on a elk hunt(and a 32 hour drive) there again. Maybe a vacation during September to do a little non pressured scouting and a bit of relaxing would "clear" my mind of my bad experience last time. Staying positive but dang it was very frustrating when you can not find elk or elk sign after busting my butt for two weeks. We tried moving to a different area somewhat close to our main spot but the same. I guess my point is I can not hunt what is not there(in the area I was in). I relate it to throwing a fishing line into a mud puddle and expect to have a couple bites....it just will not happen. For me lately I moved forward by hunting in areas that have no wolves.

[WapitiTalk1]

Over the past handful of years, I've observed that vocal elk seem to get very quiet, if not shut up altogether, when a wolf pack moves into their drainage. I spose the good news is that wolf packs are nomadic with their hunting game plan and move quite a bit (drainage to drainage) so all is not lost if a pack has moved into a drainage you've been hunting vocal elk in. Whether we like it or not, wolves are just another thing we have to factor in when elk hunting along with weather, hunting pressure, etc., etc. I will not stop hunting a general area that holds elk because there is a pack of big dogs roaming, I simply rotate major drainages to try to avoid them. Oh, and carry a wolf tag in your pocket

[RAMMONT]

I guess my point is I can not hunt what is not there

Exactly.

The northern Yellowstone elk herd has dropped to less than half it's pre-wolf numbers. Whether elk become quiet due to wolves I can't say but when there are no elk in your previously good hunting area it doesn't matter.

[ElkNut1]

You guys hunting the wolf areas, are you bugling enough before daylight for location & first couple hours of morning for location? What time of Sept are you hunting?

ElkNut1

[wawhitey]

My core elk area has a very low elk population. Ive been watching them for some time and have them pretty well figured out i think. This area has been wolf free, but over the last couple years theres been an occasional lone wolf or two passing through from time to time. I hoped they were passing through anyway. Now there is a constant wolf presence, and i ran into a pack while bear hunting last month. Not seeing as many elk now. One bull in particular that ive been watching for a few years, id get him on multiple cameras spread over 5+ miles with great regularity. Now i havent seen him in months, and my cameras that get the most elk activity are pretty much dead. These elk dont get hunted by people really, but between all the bears and cougars calf recruitement was so poor that the herd just barely makes it. I think this wolf pack is the straw that is going to break the camels back. I believe indian summer predicted that exact outcome in a different thread. The wolf pack i ran into was maybe 1/2 mile from these cams. These bulls have either died or changed zip codes.

[Timber]

You guys hunting the wolf areas, are you bugling enough before daylight for location & first couple hours of morning for location? What time of Sept are you hunting?

ElkNut1

Yes I tried to locate bulls in the middle of the night, right before sunrise, just after sunrise, middle of the day.....tried it all. I simply had my "honey hole" ruined. Saw very little sign. I even went to an area that I knew was loaded with deer from knowledge of previous trips and to chase them around to give myself a break from the elk. I was shocked that I could hardly find a track let alone see even a deer. I think depending on the area you are in, some areas have been decimated and other areas are "workable". I used to like the wolf for its majestic nature but after learning and seeing firsthand what they are all about I just prefer that they all die. But then again if people were able to manage them properly without the feds and animal huggers getting in the way then yes maybe we could have manageable wolf numbers.

[Charina]

The elk were quieter and the herds were smaller , just as many elk , only we had 4s and 5s running
The herds . Smaller bulls running smaller herds and the herds were scattered.

Are you insinuating that wolves are taking down the big 6x6's? What you describe sounds very much like the kattywompus herd dynamics found in OTC areas where there are no wolves, just the more effective two-legged predators.

[ElkNut1]

Timber, bummer! Sounds like a new area is in order! Good luck!

ElkNut1

[NorthIDTLH]

So, what I'm hearing is to continue on like normal? I agree that getting away from roads and people is going to increase my chances. I appreciate everyone's input.

Elknut, I know Rocky Jacobsen has done a few calling clinics. Do you know of any calling clinics near the Post Falls/ Coeur D Alene area? I'm always looking to learn as much as possible.

[ElkNut1]

Not right at off hand am I aware of any? I used to give one every year for several years in that area but it's been sometime since I've been there!

ElkNut1

[saddlesore]

Well for sure,if wolves kill of 50% of the elk, that makes it twice as hard to find them. Maybe 4times as hard. Look at Yellowstone. From what I remember elk the herd is down to 2000 or so elk now.

In the early 90's we did about ten years of going to Yellowstone to photograph elk during the rut.After wolf introduction,they were darn hard to find.We see more in Rocky Mtn. National Park now. I have got to believe that wherever there were elk herds and there are now wolves,the same scenario applies

[buglebrush]

Had a bull screaming at 40 yards. He was raking a tree, and I had an arrow knocked. Suddenly a wolf howled at about 100 yards. Watched the bull ghost away, ACS ask I heard the rest of the day was wolves.

Really the bigger issue is that the bloody wolves are the tipping point for many areas as far as calf recruitment and predation in general. Hate them.

[Ridgernr]

The elk were quieter and the herds were smaller , just as many elk , only we had 4s and 5s running
The herds . Smaller bulls running smaller herds and the herds were scattered.

Are you insinuating that wolves are taking down the big 6x6's? What you describe sounds very much like the kattywompus herd dynamics found in OTC areas where there are no wolves, just the more effective two-legged predators.

No , more that herds are smaller, 6 s still have a herd but smaller . The gathering seems to happen but the bigger bulls only collect , And they don't seem to find the other smaller herds due to non or quieter vocalization . Now that the wolves are gone there is more vocalization and herds are bigger with 2 or more satellite bulls. Before there didn't seem to be a herd with satellites . IE the younger bulls had their own cows,

[welka]

I second, third, fourth those who have had the experience of the elk going quiet. Had it multiple times and sometimes it's like they are following us!. Have had activity viewed by previous hunters, bulls killed before we arrive, and as soon as the howling starts - elk are GONE. Gone vs silent as evidenced by no fresh droppings, nothing making noise in the dark, typical feeding areas have no fresh tracks, multiple wallows that were active go dead, etc. Doesn't take elk long to relocate 5 miles to get away. Had enough of it in MT and moved to NM. Now just need to watch for the Mojave rattlers! Good luck to those of you who still stick it out and contend with wolves.

[ishy]

I hunt North Idaho with the highest wolf harvests in Idaho and have seem minimal impact. If I hear wolves I will usually try half heartedly to call them in (usually solo and feel somewhat undermanned with just a bow and bear spray if a large pack ever comes in) and then move to the next drainage. There are quiet days, but you get that everywhere some days. I have had a trail camera up and had more mature bulls last year than I have ever had at these locations. Maybe we are just doing a great job up here of staying ahead of the reproductive rate of wolves-thank you Foundation for Wildlife Management.