Montana elk tags

[Roj]

Hello. We are still in the planning phase of our '16 archery elk hunt. Colorado is a backup, but looking to go to another state. The only other state we have any points for is WY, and that is only one point. We are going to apply for WY, but in case we don't draw, we need a plan. Does MT have the option to purchase a guaranteed tag similar to WY? We are open to any state, but looking hardest at these two because we are very interested in a hunt plan from Headin West. Just not sure on units/points/draw/etc. Thanks

[Indian Summer]

They have totally different systems. For starters Montana uses a license which is required to hunt anywhere & everywhere in the state.... all units. But some units require a permit in addition to that and that's where a drawing comes into play. Wyoming uses a license only. You either have their General license which is valid in all general units. Or you draw a license that is from a limited quota and is unit specific.

You can pay more money to enter the Special drawing to guarantee a Wyoming license. Otherwise you enter their Regular drawing which has lower odds.

In Montana there is only one drawing. But the licenses don't sell out so the draw odds are 100%. Montana continues to sell leftover licenses throughout the summer on a first come first served basis. BUT..... many units require a permit in addition to the General license. You cannot get permits after the March 15th deadline. So the bottom line is you can get guaranteed tags but in some places you have a deadline because of the permit requirement. Some permits are unlimited in numbers so guaranteed but you still have to apply by March 15th.

The Wyoming draw results come out by February 25th so if you find out you didn't draw you still have about 2 weeks to get Montana apps in.

Hope that answers your question.

Last year 1 point gave you about a 40% chance of drawing in the Regular draw. Anything less than 1 point there was zero chance of drawing. Then... everyone who doesn't draw gets their apps dumped into the random (non preference point) drawing where everyone including those with no points get a second crack at it. In the random there was a 1 in 6 chance in 2015 as long as it was your first choice.

[Pop-r]

What Joe said but I would really expect soon for the upper anty on the special general to not be a slam dunk. I feel that day is coming very soon as the number of applicants is rising very exponentially every year.

[Indian Summer]

Yep. I suppose there's a chance of that this year.

[Roj]

Thanks for the reply. So maybe the next question is for Joe directly. Joe, do you offer hunt plans in MT in units that don't require an additional permit? ...just the general licence? If you'd rather message or email me, feel free. Thanks

[Indian Summer]

No I don't. Apps need to be in by March 15th so you can get both.

[Roj]

Hhmmm...now I'm confused. So do you offer hunt plans in units that you can draw a permit the first year? If so, how are we to know what units to apply for?

In a nutshell, I'm looking to use one of your hunt plans. I only have one pp in WY, applying for a special tag in WY would kind of be wasting my pp, so I'm wondering if I can hunt MT until I draw WY. Maybe I'm not making any sense, sorry.

[Indian Summer]

I understand. First though.... you do know that with just 1 point you can pretty much guarantee the General license in Wyoming's special draw right?

Last year even the <1 point category was a 100% odds draw as a first choice in that drawing. No guarantees but a really really good chance of being successful. And... the general tag is definitely not a waste of a single point. I'm not sure what your long term plan is but if you want somewhere you can hunt almost every year you might as well get started hunting a general unit. If you only hunt units that require as little as 3 or 4 points you only get to hunt them every 4 or 5 years. For the tougher to draw units point creep comes into play and you could be lucky to hunt them once every 10 or more years.

As far as Montana... yes, you will draw the permit the first year & every year guaranteed. Once you purchase a hunt plan I'll walk you through the application process and give you the permit code. At that point I'll get the topo maps ordered and also give you some coordinates and landmarks so you can go online and look the area over while I wait for the maps and get the plan together.

No need to apologize. I don't mind helping you get things figured out and now is the time.

[Roj]

Thanks Joe. I found the cost for WY special draw online, but do you know off the top of your head the cost for MT guaranteed permits? Or is there a different price for random permits/special permits similar to WY? WY special draw is a bit pricey, but not too bad for almost 100%.

Then again, when weighing everything out such as driving from WI, quality elk hunting, etc...a couple hundred dollars might nor be a big deal. I've read your post about MT/WY hunting and it sounds like it is mostly just personal preference, although we'll take any advice we'll get. We are for sure going to purchase a plan through you, we just have to figure out which state...which we plan to do in the next day or two. Thanks

[Roj]

I may have found my answer. It appears in 2015, a MT elk tag & permit was around $855. I don't see an option for a special draw, but according to Joe, his units are almost guaranteed. And a special draw in WY was $1057, which is also almost guaranteed. Does this info sound correct?

I'm not trying to be a penny pincher, but as the grip group guinea pig, I just want to make sure I'm relaying the correct information to everybody. Thanks

[Pop-r]

Joe may be out today so I'll just throw a Lil at you. No difference in price of MT tags. To my knowledge WY is the only place that more money will get you in a different category at all. I would recommend if you do MT to go ahead & get a combo tag if you're not worried about a couple hundred dollars. This allows you to hunt elk, deer, birds & fish for just a lil bit more than the elk tag you stated. All for the about the same price you're going to give WY for a special general elk tag.

[Roj]

Thanks Pop-r. Makes perfect sense. Glad I'm starting to get on the right page.

[Indian Summer]

The Montana license is $846. It includes fishing, small game, and upland birds as well as the conservation stamp. The permit is another $9. You don't need the elk/deer combo because those units also require a deer permit and that one has a guarantee too... I guarantee you will NOT draw it.

Here is a link to the list of this years license and permits and the fees. http://fwp.mt.gov/hunting/licenses/all/

The Wyoming Regular draw is $577 + a $14 application fee and the Special is $1057 + the $14 application fee. Their conservation stamp is $12.50. Some units in Wyoming require a Elk Feedground Special Management Permit.

Here's the link to the Wyoming license fee list. https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Apply-or-Buy/License-Fee-List#elk

Both states require archery stamps. Stamps and permits can be purchased after the licenses are issued and even over the counter when you get there.

[Roj]

Good to know Joe, thanks. Sounds like we just have to decide between the two now. I think the couple hundred dollars difference in tags will be made up for in gas dabbed by hunting WY. It may just come down more to the type of terrain we'd prefer. Just good to know both are an option. Thanks

[Pop-r]

Don't get mad at me Joe but just in fairness. One can draw a combo tag that isn't in Joe's units that you can get a deer tag included with all he listed (elk, deer, small game, upland birds, fishing) for like the $978 or whatever it is (I forget exactly). PLENTY of places in MT one can expect to fill both these tags w/o the benefit of a "hunt plan" with what I would call reasonable effort altho the hunt plan will minimize some of this effort.

[Indian Summer]

I think it's safe to say that most unsuccessful hunters have made at least a reasonable effort. Quite often more of an effort than the successful ones.

Also... while it is certainly possible to kill game without a plan... it's even more possible to eat tag soup if you've never been to an area. Especially if you're new to elk hunting and the mountains. Actually the most common client I have is one who has struck out one or more times. They have some experience but just need a worthwhile place to call home and would like to save the time and money the normal learning curve requires us to invest. They have already invested it and came up empty and don't want that to happen again. Lots of times they will come back and tell me they knew on day 1 that their hunt was a whole other ballgame from the previous ones. Man alive they are happy when they kill elk and even happier to know they have a place to hunt in the future.

That said... yep... there are units where you can hunt both on an elk deer combo license. Some with no permits. In all honesty though I wouldn't waste the money if I were a first time elk hunter. Even if you aren't a rookie, trying to kill both inside of a week is never easy. IMO if you want to kill an elk you need to focus on that. The other thing about killing deer on elk hunts is that if you do punch your deer tag you'll have some down time. Time being the biggest factor that's something to think about.

Elk country isn't always good deer country and I've been places where deer where nearly non existent. Other places the deer hunting is so good that if I was going to buy a deer tag I'd concentrate on that especially if I burned a point or 3 on the license. In 2017 or maybe 18 I am going mule deer hunting. The season starts September 15th, peak of the elk rut, and I will be in one of my best elk hunting spots. I won't even buy an elk license that year.

[elk.addict]

Elk country isn't always good deer country and I've been places where deer where nearly non existent.

Yep, unfortunately quite true. The unit where I hunt elk is special permit for deer. Last year I actually saw a buck worth shooting. I usually don't see anything. I hunt deer in a totally different area.