Needing some elk wisdom

[kad1429]

So I'm from Montana born and raised I've hunted deer and antelope my whole life this last year was my first time archery hunting elk. I poured over maps talked to a lot of people and put countless miles of boot leather in the mountains all summer. Spent two weeks up in the mountains hunting and had the time of me life won't miss another season now. We got access to forest service through private ground and where in elk every day. But then eight guys came in on four wheelers with the land owner behind them and told us if we wanna keep hunting we had to pay a $500 fee just to pass though a quarter mile cow pasture of his to get to forest service but long story short we had to find a new spot and didn't get on any more elk. But we found a spot with rubs everywhere and I mean everywhere! And three wallows that looked like they where super hot a couple weeks befor and this was in the third week of September. But not an elk nor the sound of elk anywhere. But what I wanna know is, is that a bulls or multiple bulls like "bedroom" in early season? And will they use that same area year after year? Would it be worth trying at the opening of next season? And if so what tactics would I use to work this area?

[six]

kad

I'm in the same boat as you. Looking at early season archery for next year. In my own personal experience I have seen wallows used year after year. Especially in dryer climates. Good luck and welcome aboard.

[saddlesore]

If I had to hazard a guess, I would say there was some early hunters in there and hunting pressure drove them out. I don't do early scouting although I am a rifle hunter. It has been my experience that elk are not in the same place in hunting season as earlier.

Another thing to consider is that elk use the same breeding grounds every year ,and the same calving grounds, but it is the cows that decide where those are. A bull will herd his harem around and keep them together in rut, but if you watch a herd of elk , a few cows will lead that herd off.
I would get some land status maps and find out if there is a way to circumvent that 1/4 mile of private land to get back into you favorite spot. Many times there is, not easy, but doable

[ElkNut1]

Check out the "ElkNut Tips & Clips" Forum above. Click on the Topics on Wallows, Breeding Areas & Early Seasons, lots of info there along with what others are sharing here!

ElkNut1

[WapitiTalk1]

Yep and yep, I agree with most of the comments provided above (and yep, definitely check out the topic in Elknut's Tips and Clips).

"Most" rubs hunters come across in the elk woods are velvet rubs and for the most part, are not of any assistance during your archery elk hunt. Much of the velvet rubbing occurs before the bulls have moved from their bachelor pads to where the cows are hanging come end of August/early September. Yep, bulls rub during the rut for sure while advertising, posturing against intruders, and generally to demonstrate their bull-hood for all to see and hear; these hunting season rub areas can certainly be target areas as they may be along feed to bed trails, actually very close or within feed and bed areas, and perhaps by active wallows. Wallows get the bulk of their use from mid July up through mid to the end of August but not so much into September. This said, yep, a hunter will find some active wallows throughout September and even into October but that is not the norm. As always when archery elk hunting during any phase of the rut, find the cows and the bulls will be around.

[Swede]

In mid August to late mid August, the bulls shed their velvet and determine dominance. At the end of August through early September, the bunches break up. Right after that they often leave their Summer haunts to go to where the cows are. They will often come back in the breeding period with their cows. It sounds to me like you hunted the area with the wallows and rubs, somewhere between September 5 and September 15th. I doubt the bulls were pushed out by hunters, if you saw no sign or hunters around.
How does the Forest Service access their land behind the ranch?

[kad1429]

Through that ranch it was just a two track trail and a wire gate but this other spot with the rubs was easy public access but it kinda seems like I'm back at ground zero so even when the season starts right at the beginning of September I wanna find the cows to find the Bulls right?

[Swede]

I have some areas that are bulls only on my trail cameras. Some places are almost entirely cows. When the bulls leave to tie in with the cows, in early September, there is some time before any come back. Only a very few elk will hang around. I am reluctant to say none will be there, but I have places where you will see no fresh tracks for a couple of weeks after the bulls leave. I normally get a few days on hunting in a bull area before it is time to go somewhere. Our season starts in late August. I think I would leave a camera in this bull area of yours and check it the first of the season. I would hunt there until the activity dies off, then have a good place to go to.

[kad1429]

But this also is a area where quite a few people hunt but I don't know about how many people know about it but basically it sounds like opening weekend is my best shot at this place

[Swede]

Kad, I don't know your area. If a lot of people move in for opening weekend, that could be pushing the elk out. That is what happens in many places. Anyway I would check back in mid September, and see if elk are around then.

[cohunter14]

One thing I would also do is check with the local forest service office regarding that road through the private land. See if they can legally close that road off to the public. A lot of roads go through private land to access public land and sometimes they can be closed, but many times they cannot. If they can't legally close the road, then they also can't legally charge you money to access it. Just something to think about.

[Lefty]

One thing I would also do is check with the local forest service office regarding that road through the private land. See if they can legally close that road off to the public. A lot of roads go through private land to access public land and sometimes they can be closed, but many times they cannot. If they can't legally close the road, then they also can't legally charge you money to access it. Just something to think about.

I would get some land status maps and find out if there is a way to circumvent that 1/4 mile of private land to get back into you favorite spot. Many times there is, not easy, but doable

As a former full time trapper I ran across lots of folks who claimed ownership or access control., And I have some stories that are real doozies. I have always been cordial to those claiming ownership.
I generally state who the legal owners sometimes stating the time and a local authority county assessor, Local conservation officer .
I participated in what was the first Travel access planning that began in the mid 90" in Box Elder County Utah,.. It all hit the fan and most of the meeting had local , armed law enforcement present, Obnoxious landowners were escorted out, meeting canceled and ended early,.. fun stuff
Idaho has land access and travel mapping , I would think most western states have something simular

I use to goose hunt on a piece of state land, Every year two groups bullied other hunters off the area.
general access was tough and a long hike. A railroad owned a 150 year old rail bed that two municipalities leased for "all legal uses" I used the railroad bed to another piece of private property then walked a mile than walked out to my pit.

[Swede]

Just to go along with Derek's post, there is a picture of a private sign that was placed on a Forest Service road. It is just one of several I saw. I gave the information to the F.S., but why do they not have someone on these things?

[Lefty]

The worse state I ever saw was NM for that kind of stuff

Because you havent been to Wyoming

There is a big landowner near where I use to hunt elk, The farm posted public roads all the time
I happened to be looking at a sign and a map when a deputy came up. I was think Im not even on the property and the laws was there.
The Deputy saw my dust and drove out,.. he was pulling down all the illegally posted road signs