Would You Take This Shot?

by **ElkNut1** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 1]

Elk season is upon us! It's good to consider shot possibilities before they arise! Would you take this shot, if yes what's your maximum distance you would feel comfortable with? If not, why not?

ElkNut1

by **Swede** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 2]

Yes, out to about 20 yards.

by **Pop-r** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 3]

Yes to about 30 yds. I might aim an inch or two higher but it's a slam dunk.

by **Toothy** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 4]

hmm.. 200yds with a brace.

rifle hunters aren't frowned upon here are they?

by **Mike_Parson** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 5]

if i was already at full draw i would take this shot out to 50 YDS. i pratice out to 70 YDS and im very comfortable from 20 to 50 and shoot a 2" group out to 50 with great consistancy.

by **idahoghost** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 6]

Yes, no further than 30yds.

by **Ben Nicholson** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 7]

No with my recurve.

Yes with my compound (out to 30yds).

by **Mikeha33** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 8]

Under 30 yards, with my bow, in a heartbeat. Very fatal shot, but if you are not very comfortable with your equipment, or having a bad case of "bull fever", it's a horrible idea, and you'll stick that front shoulder and just wound the animal.

by **Stick** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 9]

Yes I would. I practice out to 60 yards. Probably would want this shot to be mono more than half that. The problem with this shot is there is so little room for error. Although I feel confident and am consistent at 60 the farther that arrow flies........you understand.

by **Huntrgathr** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 10]

If that picture had audio you'd hear my string drop when he hit the high note. Like most guys said, 30-40 yds , mid bugle, sure. BUT, his cow us walking to my right and it's a pretty damn good chance he's going to give me a broadside shortly after he finishes that bugle. If I'm already drawn at the moment that pic was snapped, TWANG ! If I'm not drawn, I'd draw and see what he does.

by **Elkduds** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 11]

No, b/c that bull is moving, alert, has a clear view of me. But mainly b/c of potentials for non-lethal wounding and poor-to-no blood trail. Wondered when the frontal shot debate would resume :?:

by **Wyo67** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 12]

Yup. Out to 25 yards. With the assumption I'm already a full draw. If I'm not a full draw, I'm probably screwed as there appears to be no cover. If I haven't drawn, I'm reading situation. Did they just stand up? Are they moving? Is that the wind I feel on the back of my neck? Worse comes to worse, I'll try to slowly draw and then try to stop him with a popping grunt when he busts.

by **Lefty** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 13]

25 yards. If windy maybe only 15

by **elk.addict** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 14]

20 and closer if he's aware. Even if your aim is dead on, if that bull jumps the shot even a little there's not much room for error. Although in this frame he's obviously bugling so I guess he'd never hear/see it comin', so maybe more like 30 yards

by **elkstalker** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 15]

20 yards, I'm new with the bow, and theres not much room for error if he jumps the string.

by **Huntrgathr** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 16]

I wouldn't consider a bull who is in mid-bugle particularly alert or aware. When he's screaming with his head back like that I think he's going to be less aware of the shot and slower to react. Bulls are more alert coming into water, wallows, when feeding or bedded than when they're bugling - they are most likely distracted by the elk/hunter calls they're responding too...

I have yet to take a bull with the frontal shot but by most accounts, they often leave a crazy blood trail and don't go far at all. It would be interesting to compare the exposed vital area of a frontal elk shot to that of a broadside deer shot. Would seem that a coues deer would offer no shot at all, in any position, if a frontal elk target is too small...

by **Pop-r** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 17]

This brings up an interesting point. I'm not shooting this bull & calling it a "frontal". If it was a frontal I'd aim totally different than what I personally would for this "quartering to" shot. I'm tryin to slide it right under his shoulder blade. About a 4"×16" target. A successful frontal would require a totally different approach.

by **Rangerz** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 18]

Out to a max of about 30 yds. for me. I hope to be in a position to make a choice!

by **Bow4me** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 19]

I actually took this shot at 40 last year. But it was in the timber and his eyes were behind a tree a little more quartering. I walked up on him right after doing a couple of locator bugles with no response. I didn't walk 40 yards after calling and BAM! There he was. I had a small window to poke an arrow through. Maybe the surprise got the better of me but I took the shot. Not seeing a pencil size limb in my shooting hole because of the lack of light in the timber. Hindsight I should have froze and let him make a move. But yes I would take the shot at 40.

by **ams97124** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 20]

I too would take this shot out to 30 yards on an unwary bull and half that distance on an alert bull.

by **8upbowhunter** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 21]

I am shooting a longbow this year so probably not unless he is at 15yds or less and I am at full draw already.

by **Navesgane** » 08 13, 2015 • [Post 22]

If the wind was in my favor i think id wait for him to turn. Doesnt look like any obstacles around other than the hind-end of that other elk.

by **Bow4me** » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 23]

To add another twist to it. Would the size of the bull have a factor on your choice? I'm going to honest and say it would for me. I've never had a bull of that size in bow range.

by **Seminole** » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 24]

Yes sir out 30 yards.... I can smell elk season right around the corner!!!!

by **bowhunter04** » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 25]

Yes, but only out to 20 yards. Too much can go wrong if he lowers his head quickly so I wouldn't want there to be much time between when I touch the trigger on the release and when the arrow hits home.

by **foxvalley** » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 26]

You bet,the last elk I killed was a frontal at 30 yds. with the compound,the max distance that I would take this shot.With the longbow.....10-15 yds. max,but good luck drawing on him with traditional when he is facing you! I would wait till he turned broadside with the trad,then snap shoot him in the heart.

by **ElkNut1** » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 27]

In my opinion, it's a true frontal shot, can't worry about a few inches of angel one way or another, same could apply to a broadside shot, they are not all perfectly broadside but close enough the shot does not need to be altered.

When considering distance we as hunters need to consider the elk's demeanor at time of shot, we do not want to allow emotions to distract our good judgement that "he may get away" if we don't take the shot no matter the distance involved. Elk can jump or move quickly so longer shots have to be taken into account that this is not a stationary piece of foam like in the backyard. We've taken quite a few elk with this shot but outside 30 yards for us becomes a crap shoot that all works out well.

Good question on will size of bull dictate ones decision on shot angle & distance involved, in all honesty it most likely would for me. I would consider pushing the distance from 15 yards to 18 yards! (big grin) Actually I'm not telling! (grin) Eackhencounter & situation can be different so distance can be altered as well.

ElkNut1

by **Tigger** » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 28]

As a relative newcomer to this shot, could someone draw in the area you would need to hit on that bull? I am not totally sure what the target looks like.

by **pointysticks** » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 29]

that shot is deadly. but, IMHO, that is also the animal's positions he can move from the fastest..i've seen animals "wheel around" so fast..and then you have a bad shot.

i would fire if i was 30 yards max..the closer the better..and if the animal was clueless about me.

by **jmez** » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 30]

30 and in no question.

by **foxvalley** » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 31]

The erea to hit is about the size of a softball or cantalope,this is a heart stick.

: DSCF0266.JPG (45.51 KiB) Viewed 23679 times

by **powderhogg01** » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 32]

yes, I would say I would feel confident out to 40 with this shot, though I would likely push it further if it was a monster... admittingly been a few years since I harvested some horns

by **pointysticks** » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 33]

that shot is easy.

that elk hears your bow, and spins. game over. that spin move is blistering fast.

by **foxvalley** » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 34]

Pop-r wrote:This brings up an interesting point. I'm not shooting this bull & calling it a "frontal". If it was a frontal I'd aim totally different than what I personally would for this "quartering to" shot. I'm tryin to slide it right under his shoulder blade. About a 4"×16" target. A successful frontal would require a totally different approach.

Yes, this IS a frontal shot,and yes, Paul has the red right where you want to hit.Facing a little to the right or to the left is even better than straight on.Sorry popr, but I'm spooked by you wanting to slide the arrow "right under his shoulder blade" Your arrow will go right between his shoulder blade,and along the "outside" of the ribcage.resulting in a lost animal for sure,and more than likely,a rotten one somewhere.

by **foxvalley** » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 35]

pointysticks wrote:that shot is easy.

that elk hears your bow, and spins. game over. that spin move is blistering fast.

The elk above also had a blistering spin move......right after he got hit by my arrow...... :lol:

by **jmez** » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 36]

Yellow approximates vertebrae, pink outlines front edge of scapula, black circle is the shoulder joint.

by **Huntrgathr** » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 37]

There is a bigger opening in the front of the rib cage than most might guess. A big hole that if hit at even a 25 degree angle quartering-to allows the shooter a reasonably sized target. The HUGE advantage is that you're getting a shot at taking out lungs- in the front portion where it does the most damage and has the most large blood vessels, heart, liver , (maybe windpipe ) and beyond all at once. Shooting broadside you have to choose between heart, lungs, liver...

If you shoot "in the >" on a broadside shot you have about the same margin of error for hitting the shoulder blade as the shot pictures.

Blood trails - You don't need one of you properly execute the frontal shot. I've had double lung, 100 yd recoveries that didn't leave a blood trail...

" But he can move" . Ya, he can move regardless of what angle he's at. A spin move is going to be an issue regardless of which way his head is pointing.

by **Pop-r** » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 38]

I totally disagree. If you take a true frontal it's actually more risky than the shot I'm taking. Yes I would rather him be quartered a lil more to his right but if you try to hit the hole as alot are saying do you could hit solid bone & you are more likely not to find him. Jmo. I'm not scared of a frontal & not wanting to argue but we can get some people misled here in a hurry!

by **bald9eagle** » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 39]

No....only because I've never been within bow range of an elk and I'd be shaking so bad that even a broad side shot would be near impossible....

by **rudyc** » 08 16, 2015 • [Post 40]

"Re: Would You Take This Shot?

Postby powderhogg01 » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 32]
yes, I would say I would feel confident out to 40 with this shot, though I would likely push it further if it was a monster... admittingly been a few years since I harvested some horns"

If I hear or read this one more time I'm gonna PUKE.

What difference does it make what size the animal is???

A good shot opportunity is a good shot opportunity, make no difference what size or sex the animal is. Same goes for a bad shot opportunity.

Since when is it OK to make a crummy shot on a lesser animal??

No, I won't be taking this shot.

by **GobbleFarmer** » 08 16, 2015 • [Post 41]

Well ya know

.. If the elk is bigger, than the vitals are bigger. This is slightly true, but one should never take a shot outside of his or her maximum effective range, and effective range is determined by practice out to X-amount of yards and ethics. In my opinion One should actually shorten his effective range if there is a huge-er than normal animal in view, unless you have nerves of steel, than what you practice out to should be OK. But I will not take a frontal shot on a deer or (in the future) elk, unless I really understood where all of the bones are and had a powerful compound. My .02

by **Huntrgathr** » 08 16, 2015 • [Post 42]

rudyc wrote:"Re: Would You Take This Shot?

Postby powderhogg01 » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 32]
yes, I would say I would feel confident out to 40 with this shot, though I would likely push it further if it was a monster... admittingly been a few years since I harvested some horns"

If I hear or read this one more time I'm gonna PUKE.

What difference does it make what size the animal is???

A good shot opportunity is a good shot opportunity, make no difference what size or sex the animal is. Same goes for a bad shot opportunity.

Since when is it OK to make a crummy shot on a lesser animal??

No, I won't be taking this shot.

" A good shot opportunity is a good shot opportunity". You're right, and this is one of them.

A bigger animal offers a bigger target. Most guys will take a slightly longer shot on elk simply because the vitals, in any position, are bigger than a deer. A 350" bull has bigger vitals than a yearling cow. Pretty straightforward. Nobody ever condoned taking a crummy shot at anything or implied that smaller animals are "lesser" animals - just smaller targets.

If your accuracy is the same for either shot , the frontal ( or slightly quartering-to) shot is deadlier than a broadside shot. If you get an arrow into that frontal cavity its a dead elk - period. It's not even a matter of opinion. I'm not sure why this upsets some people...

by **powderhogg01** » 08 16, 2015 • [Post 43]

I have been shooting my broad heads every angle and possible positions out to the 75 mark which is the max my sight can do. I feel very confident that I can hit my mark out to the 60 yard mark, so I feel cutting my limit to 40 maybe 50 if it was a beast does not seem unreasonable to me. The only reason I limit myself is simply the limited number of elk I have taken with my bow. I have taken plenty of deer, and yes.. when there is a large set of antlers in the peep I am willing to push my limits. That is why I shoot all the time and at various angles. so puke on brotha, what ever helps you get into elk and get it done.

by **ElkNut1** » 08 16, 2015 • [Post 44]

Pop-r I guess I don't understand what your saying? The photo posted is a frontal shot? If you feel it is not please share a photo that you feel is a frontal shot, thanks bud!

ElkNut1

by **Bow4me** » 08 17, 2015 • [Post 45]

rudyc wrote:"Re: Would You Take This Shot?

Postby powderhogg01 » 08 14, 2015 • [Post 32]
yes, I would say I would feel confident out to 40 with this shot, though I would likely push it further if it was a monster... admittingly been a few years since I harvested some horns"

If I hear or read this one more time I'm gonna PUKE.

What difference does it make what size the animal is???

A good shot opportunity is a good shot opportunity, make no difference what size or sex the animal is. Same goes for a bad shot opportunity.

Since when is it OK to make a crummy shot on a lesser animal??

No, I won't be taking this shot.

We're not talking about setting at home on your computer for days disecting the pic. I'm talking 3 days into the hunt a monster bull comes in tearing up trees, chasing off other bulls, pissing on his self and then screams in your face! Now you have 5 seconds to guess yardage and shoot or not! Don't go high and mighty ethical hunter on me and say it don't affect your choices.

by **Elkduds** » 08 17, 2015 • [Post 46]

Bow4me wrote:We're not talking about setting at home on your computer for days disecting the pic. I'm talking 3 days into the hunt a monster bull comes in tearing up trees, chasing off other bulls, pissing on his self and then screams in your face! Now you have 5 seconds to guess yardage and shoot or not! Don't go high and mighty ethical hunter on me and say it don't affect your choices.

Tod, your situation is EXACTLY why you have to know in advance whether any shot is in your high percentage kill zone or not. Personal accuracy in real-life hunting situations is a factor in that zone. So is experience wounding/losing game, finding dead game other archers never recovered. Your choice to shoot should never be altered by trophy potential, last minute of last day, or other "just this once" considerations. Many of us don't have to "go high and mighty ethical hunter," because we are already there. And that is why I'm waiting for a broadside or quartering shot. That's my only acceptable high percentage lethal shot. I have zero interest in wounding game. After years of finding bloated, wasted arrowed game I think many hunters make piss-poor shot choices, then move on to the next animal they'll wound and never recover.

by **rudyc** » 08 17, 2015 • [Post 47]

There is nothing "high and mighty" about my opinion.
It all comes down to respect. Respect for the animal. The thought that "it was a big one, so I could not pass on the shot" is what bothers me. Same with the old "it was the last day of the hunt and I needed to punch my tag". It's thinking like this and actions like these that seem to be so common now days. The urge to be successful at any cost. Way too many wounded critters out there with a mid-set like those. It's really not such a terrible thing to have to go home without killing something.

by **Bow4me** » 08 17, 2015 • [Post 48]

I'm just saying that I would most likely get caught up in the moment and I would probably push it an extra 10 yards in a real life situation further than I would just talking scenarios on the net. And I'm pretty sure that most honest people will say the same.

by **Kessler10** » 08 17, 2015 • [Post 49]

A phrase my dad taught me comes to mind after reading this post.

TO EACH......THEIR OWN

Enjoy the mountains, enjoy the opportunity to hunt!

by **one_elk** » 08 17, 2015 • [Post 50]

I'm waiting for him to turn, lot of opportunity for an less than desirable shot

by **elkaholic** » 08 19, 2015 • [Post 51]

30 and under... Absolutely

by **foxvalley** » 08 19, 2015 • [Post 52]

This shot is not for everyone,and should not be taken from anyone who has to "guess" where the kill zone is.You need to know the frontal anatomy,and know what you are targeting....basically the heart erea,and better yet, where the heart/lungs all come together at the top of the heart.You are not targeting the lungs,as they are on each side of this shot,more or less. This shot is very deadly hitting the heart/lung intersection as they loose blood presure almost instantly by severing the large artery/veins,like taking a knife to the sidewall of a tire,and my last bull hit here was dead in LESS than 5 seconds.
On the flip side,elk have a barrel type chest compared to a whitetail,which has a V shaped chest,and I will never take the frontal on a deer because of the sharp V,and the arrow has a tentancy to slide on the outside of the rib cage,and also, as pointy mentioned,a whitetail is way more prone to jump the shot,IME,than an elk,not to mention the kill erea is more the size of an apple.

by **Trophyhill** » 08 22, 2015 • [Post 53]

Frontal are deadly quick kills. Yes I would make that shot.

by **Deafirishman** » 08 23, 2015 • [Post 54]

I took this shot last season at 11 yards on a 4x5. He did not fall immediately but rather went about 300 yards before I found him. Left a heck of a blood trail though. It all depends on the shooter's confidence level. If you are confident enough to place an ethical shot, by all means go for it.

by **brun** » 08 23, 2015 • [Post 55]

I would take this shot, but only at very close range, less than 25 yards, and only if I was already at full draw. It doesn't matter how good you are at 60 yards, the margin for error on this shot is very small and too much can happen in an instant. If he is 50 or 60 yards out I would draw and wait to see if he gets closer or turns.Good hunting everyone

by **GobbleFarmer** » 08 25, 2015 • [Post 56]

WOW-is what I have to say to this video! a 2 minute vid, but skip to the 1 minute mark for the shot!

by **bownarrow** » 08 27, 2015 • [Post 57]

First of all, I have never taken a frontal shot, but with that said, I would and I will if the shot in the picture presents itself. 20 yards max I would say. I would aim exactly where you put the X. That might be on the low side of the chest cavity opening but based on the angle I don't think you would want to be any higher than that. Better to miss low than high IMO.

by **Pop-r** » 08 28, 2015 • [Post 58]

Low gets into LOTS of heavy bone! Not a good idea!