Broad heads flying just like field points???

[Stick]

I hear this advertised....I hear guys say it....I seriously wonder about it.

I have shot many different bows and many different set ups through the years. Never have I had any broad head shoot just like a field point. Especially when you begin to talk about long yardage.

Just wondered if anyone can truly say they have and what arrow and broad head they where using when this occurred.

Also what arrow length and draw weight.

I've shot fixed and mechanical...rage, muzzy, slick trick, swisher, wasp, etc...just always have to do SOME tweaking.

[AlexG]

It happened to me last year i was shooting a Easton injexion 330 spine 29'' at 70lbs with a Trophy taker ulmer edge 125 grain out of a Hoyt spyder turbo shooting 290fps. This year my setup will be a little different since my draw length has grown a inch since last year so we'll see if if it still shoots the same with the speed increase. It sucks Trophy take discontinued those broadheads, they are my favorite broadhead I've shot to date so far.

[Pop-r]

I haven't heard they discontinued them as I used them last year & was most likely going to leave them anyway. Of course they'll fly like a field point! Lol They're an awesome head but not for elk. I killed elk with them but I also saw them fail. I'm back to smthng that's cut on contact that'll fly better than a Montec. To me at the longer yardages they start having issues. Especially in wind. Not really sure where to go. Any thoughts/experience gladly accepted.

[GobbleFarmer]

I have had very good experiences with the rage's, for me they flew exactly like field points, but I only practiced out to 20 yds. Also the torrid SS from wally-world flew the same, I would not recommend the torrid's for elk though. I have never shot an animal except for squirrels with my compound, so I haven't seen first hand how they work in compounds.
The rage's and torrid's have worked flawlessly for me on many deer, in my buddy's crossbow... One must use the special rage crossbow BH's for the crossbow, and those are different than the regular rage's.

[Pop-r]

At 20 yds there is so small a chance for everything to show up that any broadhead will fly true there or very close to it. I'm talking about at 40 yds, 60 yds, or even 80 yds! Which one flies true as a field point? Or as close as possible. The Ulmer Edges do! Montecs don't. Before that I used Thunderheads. They don't either. It's almost an impossibility of sorts. Put sails in the wind to catch wind & they'll catch wind.

[AlexG]

The Ulmer edges flew great out to 70 yards never shot them passed that but they did good on my cow last year so decided i'd used them for Mule Deer this year, i wish i would of found the broadhead to see what kind of damage it took but it broke off after it passed through her! but next year i'll have to find a new head to use i'm thinking about Ram cats, Slick tricks, or the Interloc broadheads.

[Stick]

I'm hearing about what I expected. I agree with pop-r you put something in the wind with different aerodynamics or shape SOMETHING is going to change.

I guess the advertising hype kinda makes us wonder about ourselves sometimes.

Wonder why they discontinued that ulmer head?

[foxvalley]

I'm hearing about what I expected. I agree with pop-r you put something in the wind with different aerodynamics or shape SOMETHING is going to change.

I guess the advertising hype kinda makes us wonder about ourselves sometimes.

Wonder why they discontinued that ulmer head?

If my broadheads fly within ....say 4" of my field points at....40 or 50....for the most part, I wont mess my pin,unless i am consistantly low, high etc. As a general rule.

[jmez]

Helix 125 and FP at 60 yards. It really has very little to do with the broadhead itself. Tuning and shooting form are what determine how a fixed blade BH will fly. If your bow is tuned and you have good form there is no reason that your BH's wouldn't fly with your FP's.

[Stick]

Jmez- tuning I've wondered about but doubt a little because every bow setup I've ever used it never happened yet I can see that being the problem.

Shooting form I don't see. How if your shooting form is correct with field points and consistent would broad heads make a difference.

[HurricaneHuge]

Shooting form with Field Tips won't show up because you have the lack of surface area up front to mask your mistakes. Simple changes in grip pressure is enough to change how a bow paper tunes. Changing how the arrow leaves the bow can change the flight with blades upfront.

I see what you're saying as far as being consistent and with all due respect to proper form, if a person shoots with terrible form but does it the exact same way every time time he'll be just as accurate as a person with perfect form. The issue is the bulk majority of form errors are hard to consistently replicate. And if your form has strayed some, broadheads might be your clue to spend time with your form.

[HurricaneHuge]

That being said, I constantly feel like I'm shooting about 30% as good as I hope to be shooting.

[Deafirishman]

I shoot Shuttle T's broadheads and never had to adjust anything. They fly exactly like my field tips. I shoot Carbon Express Maxima Hunter 350's with a 100 grain shuttle t broadhead. Even at longer ranges they still shoot the same....I shoot a 2013 Hoyt Charger with a 65 pound draw. It;s never let me down

[Njdiverdan]

From a tuned bow with proper form a field point, bare shaft field point, and broadhead will have the same point of impact if all arrows have the same weight. However, wind will play a significant role with pushing broadheads. Also never shoot a bare shafted broadhead as any small torque will send it wonky.

Most people who cannot get broadheads to hit with field point will not be able to get a bare shaft to hit as well.

[jmez]

Broadheads make a difference because they magnify any and all issues. With a FP the front of the arrow simply moves air while the fletching steers the arrow. Put a broadhead on and now the BH wants to steer the arrow from the front and fights the fletching.

If you have good form and a good tune, the arrow leaves the bow straight without any torque. Flies straight and true, no matter what is on the front of the arrow. Your bow is tuned but you have bad form, even 100% consistent bad form then a BH is going to show that form flaw whereas a FP or mechanical head is not. With the FP the fletching will be able to correct the issue, with a fixed blade head it likely won't. Good form bad tune same result.

When I get my bow tuned and do my part I can screw any head I want on and they will group with my FP's. The whole flies like a field point thing is only true if your rig is tuned and you are as well.

[ElkNut1]

jmez, good points, I am obviously not tuned! (grin) The bow is OK but I couldn't stack arrows to save my life, just don't tell the elk! (grin)

ElkNut1

[jmez]

That is a good point as well. I think it depends on what or how you define stacking arrows or tight groups. The vital area on an elk is around 14-16 inches. If you hold in the center of the vitals and can consistently shoot an 8 inch group then you have a dead elk. Everyone likes to say they are an inch per 10 yards and that is a good goal to stive for but realistically, very few can actually accomplish that.

At 30 yards that would have you shooting a 300 on a 5 spot target. Most people can't do that at 20 yards. I take my shooting seriously and I can't consistently maintain an inch per 10. You also don't need to shoot that well to be deadly on animals.

[Huntrgathr]

Jmez ( and a couple others) are dead on here. It blows me away how many people don't broadhead tune their bows. Most guys walk back with field points, set pins. Screw on broadheads, reset pins and hunt. You tell them that any bh will hit with fp's out of a proper tune and they look at you like you told them you saw Bigfoot ...

It's got to be one of the biggest mistakes people make in bowhunting. Probably because you can make an out-of-tune bow shoot really good groups. But they don't realize they have imperfect arrow flight. "So what !?" they say. "I'm stacking arrows". They might be stacking arrows but they might be giving up a ton of KE . Also, and I think this is the biggest one, the arrow may not be coming into the target straight. As the arrow struggles to stabilize and overcome the effects of a bad tune it's very likely that it's going to hit the target at a very slight angle rather than perfectly straight. For an illustration , Take your paper tuned bow and shoot paper at 60 yds - see if you still get that bullet hole. When the arrow hits an animal at a slight angle you're losing a ton of penetration and setting yourself up for weird deflection.

Don't mean to sound preachy here but if you're not tuning for perfect arrow flight you're not getting everything you can out of your bow, arrow or broadheads and it could cost you an animal.

[8upbowhunter]

Jmez ( and a couple others) are dead on here. It blows me away how many people don't broadhead tune their bows. Most guys walk back with field points, set pins. Screw on broadheads, reset pins and hunt. You tell them that any bh will hit with fp's out of a proper tune and they look at you like you told them you saw Bigfoot ...

It's got to be one of the biggest mistakes people make in bowhunting. Probably because you can make an out-of-tune bow shoot really good groups. But they don't realize they have imperfect arrow flight. "So what !?" they say. "I'm stacking arrows". They might be stacking arrows but they might be giving up a ton of KE . Also, and I think this is the biggest one, the arrow may not be coming into the target straight. As the arrow struggles to stabilize and overcome the effects of a bad tune it's very likely that it's going to hit the target at a very slight angle rather than perfectly straight. For an illustration , Take your paper tuned bow and shoot paper at 60 yds - see if you still get that bullet hole. When the arrow hits an animal at a slight angle you're losing a ton of penetration and setting yourself up for weird deflection.

Don't mean to sound preachy here but if you're not tuning for perfect arrow flight you're not getting everything you can out of your bow, arrow or broadheads and it could cost you an animal.

I agree 100% and see it all the time thats why the expandables are so popular, the "Flies like a field point" commercials sells a lot of broadheads so lots of people just switch to those and shoot an out of tune bow. I have been shooting Thunderheads since they came out and my BH's shoot exactly like my FP's out to 50 yards (my limit). I swapped to Muzzy (found a pile of them for cheap at the end of the season so I bought them) about 10 years ago and gave the THeads to my son when he started bowhunting and tought him how to broadhead tune his bow. When I made the switch to the Muzzies I didn't have to touch my bow, they shot the same as the THeads.

[GobbleFarmer]

Very well said Huntrgathr, you are spot on (as well as others)! Yes form has much to do with being accurate, also one needs to have their arrows with BH's on to tune correctly too. On fixed blade BH's the blades act as fins on the front of the arrow, you want the fletching to steer the arrow, not the BH. If your form is good than it should be easy to tune your BH's and you can just keep backing up until you find your limit . BUT my form is not good and i have no one to coach me, so that's why I limit myself to 25 yards or less. When I can practice on a regular basis, I consistently hit 2 inch circles @ 25yds. Probably not very good for some people, but that's what I am comfortable with. So I can't help much with what type of BH to get, most of the broadhead manufacturers test their BH's accuracy on special machines that can draw and shoot while simulating perfect human form, so in that case their BH may fly perfectly true, unless you give it to someone like me who doesn't have very good form. I hope this helps, Stick, but you have already gotten perfect responses from Jmez, and Huntrgathr.

[poisonarrow]

I have an Elite Answer. I shoot FMJ 340 at 30". I use the Magnus Stinger bh 100 gr.. My bow is set at 70# and I draw 30". I had bow tuned this year. The shop had a laser to get the arrow exactly centered on the bow.

I shoot out to 100 yds and my broadhead hits exactly like my fieldpoint.

[pointysticks]

I don't shoot well enough to put out such an iron clad statement.

My broads fly great tho. Steep quartering away shot at 62 yards. I killed my first deer like that. It was cool. Arrow went as predicted.

[poisonarrow]

I do not claim that I am a great shot. The broadheads do fly just like the field tips though.

[Chellky]

Archery can be an art form. There are plenty of guys who hack there way threw and kill game but there are also lots more in that category who loose a lot of game. Every bow I have had grouped every broadhead I have shot with field points. Its achievable although some are easier than others to tune.

Stick I would suggest you work on your form first. Get on the web and look at what proper form is. There is a PDF on archery talk forum that is called nuts and bolts of archery, http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1399457 I would down load this and start working threw it. It will show you everything you need to know on form and bow set up.

There are a lot of videos on youtube on proper form too. Once you think you have your form good then post a pick on archeyrtalk and the guys on there will help out with any thing else that needs tweaking. Once you have your form down then sight in your bow and practice your form for a while. Then start to paper tune your bow and after that do a walk back tune and a bare shaft tune. After this you should have broadheads hitting together. Sometimes all it takes is a paper tune so I start there. If everything is hitting well together out to 60 yards I leave it. But generally you have to do a finer tuning adjustment to achieve tighter groups out to 70 80 yards or more.

Todays bows are more accurate than we can shoot them. The higher speed bows are a little harder to tune fixed blade broadheads but thats mostly due to at higher speeds it shows anything that is out of sync.

It helps build your confidence in the field when you know you can hit a 3 inch circle at 50 yards. It makes a elk kill shot a chip shot. You owe it to the animals you prey upon to try to make as quick and clean a kill as possible. Dont be a hack.

[pointysticks]

Don't misunderstand me. I can trim fletchings with broadheads. I've learn to shoot the broad head first then the FT. I shoot honest FT groups of eight inch at 100 yards. I believe my vision is the limiting factor at that range.

But it isn't a rifle. If a broadhead goes awry a tad. I cannot definitively call it a tune issue or what.

My Elite bow is super forgiving. Not as forgiving as my old SBXT but close.

As an engineer forced to take a few fluid mech classes I don't think broadheads and field tips can ever behave exactly the same. Similar broadheads fly differently from each other. A fieldtip is so much more stream line and won't plane.

[pointysticks]

For the record. I'm the opposite of a hack.

[Huntrgathr]

I probably wouldn't go as far as to call people who don't have perfect form and haven't tuned their bows "hacks". A lot of hunters just aren't aware of all the benefits of really dialing in those two things. There's plenty of guys that have flaws in form and/or tuning that still kill a lot of game. And there's TONS of misinformation out there steering people in the wrong direction. In some circles broadhead tuning is thought of as unnecessary or even a myth... And there are other ways to achieve a perfect tune...

[Chellky]

I was directing the hack comment towards those who just screw a broadhead on and then go hunting. I meet a lot of these guys every year. The point im trying to make is try to learn as much about your bow as the game you chase. With the internet these days I dont see why thats so hard to do, just as I dont see why broadheads and FT cant fly together.

I think any one can have very good form if they are willing to learn. Sadly a lot of hunters are not willing too.

[Stick]

As an engineer forced to take a few fluid mech classes I don't think broadheads and field tips can ever behave exactly the same. Similar broadheads fly differently from each other. A fieldtip is so much more stream line and won't plane.

Pointystick you nailed it!!!

I understand the hack comment. I have seen rifle hunters that fall under that category (never sight there gun in before season).

Question: If there was two guys standing beside you at the bow range that was consistently putting arrows in the sweet spot at 70 yards. One of them had adjusted his bow to accommodate his broad heads and the other hadn't. How would you know it??

[Huntrgathr]

As an engineer forced to take a few fluid mech classes I don't think broadheads and field tips can ever behave exactly the same. Similar broadheads fly differently from each other. A fieldtip is so much more stream line and won't plane.

Question: If there was two guys standing beside you at the bow range that was consistently putting arrows in the sweet spot at 70 yards. One of them had adjusted his bow to accommodate his broad heads and the other hadn't. How would you know it??

Short answer : You won't see it at the range. You'll see it when those two hypothetical shooters shoot an elk at 70 yds ( (or 40yds). Assuming the equipment and form are identical: The shooter with a tuned bow will get better penetration and the other shooter will likely be blaming his Rage broadheads for a lost elk...

Seriously though, there's really no argument to be had here. A tuned bow shoots better than an untuned bow. Period.

[Stick]

Seriously though, there's really no argument to be had here. A tuned bow shoots better than an untuned bow. Period.

Anyone that disagrees with that is moronic!

Maybe it's all me! Harking back to my original post here. Can't see that it was always the equipment.

Now having said that, I have not used equipment that caused the animals undue stress. I have missed an elk( only once I'm proud to say)! I have never lost an elk that I shot! Now I've only killed 10, not near as many as a lot of guys on here.

For me it's an ethics thing to give it your BEST SHOT!

So I think I'll work on ME!!

[Chellky]

Stick I have to work on me every year and have always had to work on "me" (its almost never my bow its almost always me! lol). When I first get out the bow I have to start with dialing my form in. Read up on proper form, that nuts and bolts of archery pdf is great stuff. I have to go over my form every year. This year I was leaning back for some reason like my draw length was to long. I know its not but for some odd reason I was doing this. Having someone take picks of me from all angles really helped and I could see instantly what I was doing wrong. Now I have corrected it and Im shooting good again. Last year when we got close to season I was torquing the bow slightly but once I figured it out things fell back into place. During the torquing period I had tried to broadhead tune and screwed everything up.

I only ramble on about this so guys know even some one with experience can have obstacles to over come while shooting. Its a lot easier to work on form when you have someone watch you who knows what to look for. My hack comment was not ment to be harsh and was not directed at anyone in particular. Guys I talk to who have problems with a little guidance learn to be much better shooters. If I meet someone who is having problems I dont call them a hack I try to help and thats all Im doing here.

Broadheads and feildtipps will hit in the same place if everything is done correctly. When you get out to longer ranges there are to many variables that can affect things to say they dont (in a vacuum and with a machine I suppose they would). As I get older it is harder for me to see a orange dot the size of a quarter out past 70 yards let alone hit it every time with FT or BH's. But with practice I should be able to keep them in a 4-5" circle consistently. I only aim at something small to train my eye to aim small miss small.

I havent posted hardly at all until now on this forum but I have been a long time reader. I love that this forum has so many helpfull people on it. Tuning a bow and helping people with form is something I really enjoy and I understand how confusing it can seem at first. Its not that hard to do you just have to have the want to learn. If I can do it any one can

[Huntrgathr]

Well said Chellky. It is a lot harder to overcome form issues when you're shooting alone. Whenever my groups start widening or traveling around the bullseye it's a process to define and correct the problem. It's common to blame the equipment and start making adjustments and compound the issue. It can be very frustrating when you're fighting a form issue at the same time as a tuning issue. Many times I'll start a practice session and my groups will be in a different place than they were the day before. I ALWAYS suspect form first. If my cold shots are off I immediately flip the target around and shoot blank bale with eyes closed for awhile. That fixes it most of the time.

I wait until a day when I feel absolutely confident in form to broadhead tune. All it takes is tight shoulders, sore muscles, etc to throw you off. If I start practicing and I'm having an off day, I put the bow back in the case and try again tomorrow. Often times shooting too much can lead to more problems. I don't shoot year round. I start in July, shooting 100-200 arrows a day, not worrying too much about group size. My workouts focus mainly on core strength. Im just trying to build muscle memory and strengthen all those little stabilizer muscles. Towards the end of the month I feel much more solid at full draw and fatigue is not an issue. Then i really start dialing in the bow. Once I get my bow dialed in - bh's hitting with fp's out to 60 yds, I cut way back on the practice sessions. I shoot maybe 10 arrows blank and then 5 arrows at 40,50,60 yds and I'm done. Shooting a lot at this stage seems to do more harm than good in my case.

One other thing, I know a lot of guys that say to shoot at a very small bullseye. This ruins me. I shoot at a 6 inch circle and it really cuts down on target panic trying to creep in and "over aiming". Just a few thoughts ...

[Chellky]

If aiming at a small point courses problems try taking a piece of white paper and make a 3 or 4" square in the middle of it. Then make a solid small circle in the middle of that. For some a triangle around the same size works better with a small circle in the middle. I like to use a upside down triangle with a small circle in it.

The square with a small circle in the middle works great. Use a black marker so you can see it on the white real good. I had a friend show me this and it helps with aiming and target panic and still focusing on a small dot. There is something about the way our brains are wired that we aim better at the center of a square or triangle then a larger circle. I like the triangle since it goes better with how I picture the kill zone on an animal.

After you practice this for a while then shoot the square or triangle without a dot in the middle and aim for the center. Sometimes I make a light x in the square with a pencil just to see how close I get to the center. The point is to not be able to see the x in the middle though but to force your mind to see a center. You could start with a larger box too and work your way down. It's good aiming practice since most of our animals don't come with targets on them.

[Mike_Parson]

once i switched to Ramcat broadheads i have not ever had to tweak my bow after sighting it in. I will often shoot my broadheads mixed with field points and they are all impacting together. i do this as a test to check for needing to tweek it and like i said. i never had to adjust anything after o get comfortable with my field points and switched to the Ramcat broadheads.

[FlyingArrow_Support]

I have been able to get Toxics, Wac 'Ems and Dirt Naps to fly just like my field points. All great heads, but I'll be using the Toxic this year...the wound channels they leave are absolutely astounding!

[Charina]

I hadn't bowhunted for almost 20 years. Picked up a bow this last Jan, and it's been a long process to appropriately tune both the bow, and me. Are they flying "just like field points". I doubt it. But at 40 yards both fp and bh group the same.

I think it's nearly useless to describe my bow or arrow setup, or bh I'm using (other than to point out they are fixed blade). Each has to be tuned individually. And all the adjustments on the bow were worthless until I got my grip and form correct. Esp the grip. That was really screwing me up. Paper tuning helped me get instant feedback on my grip to refine it. Then minute rest adjustments, yolk tuning, etc dialed it in so they group the same. Finally got to that point last week.

Now to start practicing at 50 yards (longest distance in my yards) for the final 3 week stretch until opening morning.

[Ryan Conkle]

Mathews DXT 70 lbs. at a 29 inch draw, shooting Carbon Express Maxima Hunter 350's tipped with 100 grain Slick Trick Standard Broadheads'. This is the only set-up that I have ever shot that I can say flies identical to my field points', I have a 6 pin sight ranging from 20-70 yards' and do not have to make any pin adjustments'. I attribute this to not only my bow being tuned properly but also to the design of the broadhead.

[Mathewsz7-elkridge]

I get field point accuracy out of the g5 montec 125gr. I shoot a 28 inch draw mathews z7. The arrow I shoot are gold tip pro hunter 7595s. Out to 60 yards the broadheads hit the same as field tips with no adjustment to my rest. 60 yards is as far as I shoot with my broadheads but I would say they would continue to fly well farther out. Slick tricks are the only other fixed blade I have shot they flew pretty good too. Its important to have the proper setup a well tuned bow is only have of it. Spine stiffness and arrow weight are important as well as the quality of the arrow. Some arrows tolerance of straightness and weight are different. With today's bows with a good quality arrow that fits your bow a lot of todays broadheads will fly pretty good.