Elevation Training Mask 2.0 study

[SarcasmPhD]

So, my aviation Physiology professor works out at my gym. He knows about my upcoming elk hunting trip. He sees me doing the gauntlet aka big stair stepper, everyday. Just waiting for my pack to arrive then I'll begin training with weighted pack. I realize I can do all the cardio training in the world here in Texas. Throw me in at 8000-10000' elevation and the struggle will be there. I'll recover quicker from training. However, I'm still at 700 above sea level. My professor and I talk regularly about the trip and what to expect. He mentioned that I try the Elevation Training Mask. Theory behind it is that it restricts your oxygen intake while training. Therefore your body should create more red blood cells to help deliver more oxygen to your working muscles. I wasn't too sure about it. He then offered to buy the mask along with a heart rate monitor to do a double blind study. He would analyze the data collected by a trainer monitoring my heart rate, blood pressure, etc. This guy is a tenured professor, published many times as well as former NASA scientist. He wants to study how the mask has, if any, effect on helping to acclimate quickly to high elevation coming from below 1000' sea level. Also said he can apply for a grant to pay me for the study. I signed up.

I will keep you all posted on how the training is going and of course, the results. I will have to wear a heart rate monitor while I'm in Colorado to record the rates while at elevation. I'll look goofy as hell wearing a mask that makes me look like Bane from Batman. No, I don't have to wear the mask while I am hunting. Only for the training part. If it helps me acclimate quicker so I'm not huffing and puffing while climbing and chasing elk, I don't lose because I'm already training hard. And if it shows promise, this is something you may want to incorporate into your preseason training regimen.

[Stick]

That's cool!! will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[GobbleFarmer]

That's cool!! will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Agreed!

[Bow4me]

I live in Arkansas at an elevation below 500' so I'm very interested to see your results.

[twinkieman]

Altitude is always a problem for me the first 3 days, hope you post what you learn from the data, before your trip, and after. You might want to checkout the Fitbit Charger HR, wears as a watch, several functions, as well as a heart rate monitor.

[SarcasmPhD]

The heart rate monitor he is getting is called My Mio. It records your heart rate via your radial artery rather than wearing a chest belt and a heart rate monitor watch. I think the fit bit probably would have been a better choice. He was the one buying so I'm just wearing what he wants to use for the test. The trainer will monitor BP, etc. The mask arrives today. I'll post pics. Pack should be here mid-week. Once it arrives, I will begin the tests.

[Charina]

Double blind? Uhhhh . . . can you explain how both the administrator and the patient would be unaware whether or not the breathing would be restricted? How do you develop a palacebo mask that feels like restriction, but does not restrict airflow? You would have to have some pretty incompetent participants to remain unaware of whether or not their breathing was being restricted. What is the baseline established for comparison? How many participants? VO2Max measurements, or heart rate only? I'm having a hard time envisioning this 'study' from what has been posted so far.

There are plenty of truly rigorous studies on the use of such masks. Google it.

[Tigger]

I had someone suggest I seal a plastic bag around my neck and poke a pinhole or two in it to do the same thing. I decided against it!

[Bow4me]

I was told the same thing.

[EVD]

What I recall reading from my mountaineering days, is you need to also sleep and recover at a simulated higher elevation/ lower oxygen environment. There has been research done by people for high altitude conditions, 20,000'+, and I believe the only thing that had a positive effect was spending the majority of the day at higher simulated elevation in a tent apparatus. Either way the mask shouldn't hurt and I would be interested to see if you think it helps. Last I knew there was some talk about Viagra helping at high altitude. Not sure if it would help at 10,000 - 12,000', and that might not be worth trying....

[SarcasmPhD]

Well Charina, see, my prof won't be administering the tests. He will be analyzing the data that is recorded by a trainer. Data that only the trainer will be privy to. Therefore, double blind study. And I'm sure there are studies. He hasn't really looked. Nor have I. He offered to do this testing for his own collection of data. He also offered to pay for the mask, monitor and since he's tenured, he can apply for a grant. What exactly do I have to lose by agreeing to try this? If it works, outstanding! If it doesn't, I've pushed myself to prepare for this hunt. So I apologize if I don't have the exact protocol for the type of tests that will be administered to help your vision become clearer on this testing. I'm also sorry we didn't do an extensive Google search for similar tests. He offered to do this on Friday. Received the mask & monitor today. Plus, he applying for a grant, there is a possibility I can get paid for doing this. I'm sure you have doubts about that, too. Not sure exactly what I have to lose here, paid or not paid.

As for acclimating to the altitude, I've got seven days to hunt. Not really going to go all Mt Everest and climb to a base camp, acclimate, climb to next base and repeat. Just trying something that may or may not help the adjustment to the altitude be that much quicker. Sure, the density of O2 here at 700' is much denser than at 8-10k, so replicating the actual less dense air by "restricting" O2 via a mask, I have my doubts. If my prof didn't offer to pay for this, I wasn't going to buy the mask.

[Bow4me]

I don't care if you call it blind experimental or a gamble. Im interested in the input from a fellow hunters struggles that are similar to my own. And you can google whatever you want but you really don't know who paid who to say what. So keep us posted on the mask and your personal results. Hell im really considering buying one now before the results. Even if it only helped me be able to climb 500' in elevation 30 seconds faster to get in front of a bull its worth 80 bucks.

[SarcasmPhD]

Of course I'll keep you posted. I am just waiting for my pack to arrive. Should be mid to later this week. Once that arrives, I'll start off with 35-40#, slap on the Bane from Batman look/mask and get this thing started.

For shits & giggles, I'll post a picture of me wearing the mask later this evening. I tried to post a profile picture and I am having trouble making the file smaller so this might take some time. But I promise to entertain you ASAP.

[SarcasmPhD]

I made a little video showing the mask and how it looks when wearing it.

http://youtu.be/niNKctVKJIA

[Freebird134]

This sounds interesting as a hunter, but as a scientist this sounds fishy as it gets. A tenured professor that is applying for grants that hasn't reviewed the current literature on the subject? I don't blame SarcasmPhD for jumping on the opportunity, but the integrity of the Prof sounds questionable.

[SarcasmPhD]

He is a great guy. He approached me about checking the mask out. I searched for some reviews on it. They were your typical review from someone, with zero credentials, who bought it and made certain claims. I told him I didn't find anything that convinced me to purchase one. He gave me his card and said to buy it. He's very legit. He absolutely loves doing research, collecting data. Google him: Dr. William Squires, Texas Lutheran University. Published many times. Regardless,I win from this. It's definitely helping me to really focus on my cardio. And I haven't even worn the mask for training yet. Having lived in CO, when I go back, and this is usually just to the Boulder area, walking up a hill, I definitely feel the body working.If this, in any way, can help me recover quicker, even if it mentally makes me believe it helps, perfect!

[dbenkley]

The mask absolutely does NOT simulate altitude. To simulate altitude it would have to decrease the partial pressure of oxygen you are breathing in(which it does not) to stimulate erythropoitin and mitochondrial growth for better altitude adaptation. What it will do is strengthen your inspiratory and expiratory muscles. Will this translate to better fitness? Absolutely! Will it make you acclimate to high altitude better? Well, I would say yes and no. If your overall fitness is better than it was three months ago before you started using the mask then you might tolerate a move up in altitude better then you would have then when you weren't in quite as good of shape. But will you "acclimate" faster? Technically speaking, probably not. The only thing that will stimulate the physiological response of being at altitude is breathing a lower partial pressure of oxygen than you normally do (read:being AT altitude).. But hey, if you have a mask and wanna train with it, why not? It's another training tool not unlike a dumbbell, jump rope, running shoes, nordic trace, or whatever piece of fitness equipment you like to use to increase your fitness level. It's all about being in the best shape possible, right?
That said, interested to read the study results.. Happy training and hunting! Gotta go throw my pack on go for a hike!
Good Luck

[SarcasmPhD]

I couldn't agree more dbenkley. I'm in Texas. I can't take the O2 out of the atmosphere here. It's more dense here, partial pressure of O2, than it will ever be at 8-10k. Wearing a mask to train cannot suddenly filter out the available O2 I'm breathing right now through "resistance" plugs. Bada-bing! Even though I'm in Texas at 700', the mask changes all that upon donning it. Just trying to help my prof out with something he loves to do. It'll definitely take some time getting used to wearing while training. But, yeah, you're right, if it helps me with my training, mission accomplished.

Thank you and good luck to you as well!

[307]

I think you'll find that you feel better at altitude from wearing the mask. It won't be because you have simulated altitude, nor will your VO2 be improved, nor will your HCT or mitochondrial density change significantly different from a person with similar genetics who trains without the mask, but you'll be used to suffering through your workouts quite a lot more due to airflow restriction and taking the damn thing off will feel wonderful. You won't be any better off, but you'll feel a lot better off, which is the point afterall...

Since there is no control group, and HR by itself, without a control isn't really telling you anything, calling this a "double blind study" is ridiculous IMO. If this n=1 "experiment" qualifies for any sort of scientific grant, it would be quite surprising.

But, if the point is to feel better during your hunt, I like your odds.

[Ghost]

And here I just limit my breathing to through my nose when doing cardio. I can see a benefit from the mask, I wonder how much stronger it will make your diaphragm muscles with upping the resistance it takes to breath. Looking forward to the results. Where are you planning on hunting?

[SarcasmPhD]

I now know why I really wasn't overly excited when my prof mentioned this mask. I don't like it. Not comfortable at all. I'm pushing myself as it is. This mask sucks balls. I'll stick with training with my pack being weighted. Being a pilot, I can, you can to its not exclusive to pilots, I'm just going to get portable O2. I won't be climbing Mt Everest but I'll do what they do and take a few hits of canned O2. That'll help with the fatigue. Sorry for getting any hopes up for those who are curious about this mask. It just is too cumbersome on top of breathing heavy and sweating like a mother f'er.

I'll be hunting either unit 18, 17 or 181. May check a few others out. Called a game warden today who's number Parks & Wildlife have to me. Looking to ask him some questions about those units and give him the plan is tentatively come up with.

[Raghorn_Reaper]

:D And here I just limit my breathing to through my nose when doing cardio. I can see a benefit from the mask, I wonder how much stronger it will make your diaphragm muscles with upping the resistance it takes to breath. Looking forward to the results. Where are you planning on hunting?

Limiting ones breathing through the nose only seems like a good tip to me. I'm going to work that into my regimen.

[Ghost]

Sarcasm, Have you tried Altitude Advantage? I swear by the stuff, I feel better at altitude in my late forties than I did in my late thirties. [/url]http://www.wildernessathlete.com/altitude-advantage/[/url]

[SarcasmPhD]

Ghost, I'll stick with the supplemental oxygen. Being a pilot, it is required for a pilot to have supplemental O2 available if you are flying above 12500' for more than 30 minutes. We're not using a supplement. Why not use the real deal to assist you when you are feeling fatigued coming from sea level up to 10000'? Mt Everest climbers use it when they're basically crawling to the top. Well the climbers with a brain who aren't out to "prove?" how "cool" they are because they made it to the top without supplemental O2. I'll stick with O2. You can find canned O2 on Amazon, pilot stores, etc. It's not very expensive. Considering that most of us have 5-7 days to hunt, you want to make the most of it by not dragging ass because you're fatigued carrying your gear for miles up a mountain.

[307]

But then you have to carry an O2 tank in your gear, up the mountain. They're not exactly light... It will take a lot of tanks to be on constant O2 and a puff here and there won't do you any good.

[WapitiTalk1]

You guys are hurting my head. What's wrong with just hiking with a pack on, even just up and down stadium stairs if you live in flat country for hunt conditioning for a planned elk adventure? Nothing can really prepare you for the elevation changes experienced in the high elk country anyhoo. It always takes a few days to acclimate which is why it's more often than not recommended to try to take as many days as possible when you go. Just my meager thoughts.

[SarcasmPhD]

Sorry Phantom, it's the Exercise Physiologist in me, knowing what I know about acclimating to elevation coming from sea level, and having only seven days to hunt....you may want to spend a few days acclimating, I'll take advantage of what I know works. I'm sure if you climbed Mt Everest, you would be sucking in supplemental O2. Sure, I'm not climbing Everest, but I would rather "cheat", go full bore for the seven days I have to hunt. As for the mask, it was a novel idea my aviation physiology prof thought maybe would help. And, he bought it. I tried it, and it makes a great Halloween mask. As for my training, I'm not worried about that. However, train all I want here, I'm still going to be sucking air up there. So, yeah, I'll bring canned O2.

And, 307, you can carry bulky O2 canisters with an O2 mask. Hell yeah, it would be a ridiculous amount of weight. Or, you can go to Amazon or Sportys pilot store to find lightweight aluminum portable O2 cans. I'm sure you could handle the weight of, say maybe, 1/2lb at most.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0080SU900/re ... LvbRAGJ5X3

http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/boost- ... 22-oz.html

[SarcasmPhD]

My prof is going to use a Pulsox, in a nutshell, it measures the concentration of O2 in your blood. You've probably had one place on your finger when you've visited the doctor and they take your BP, as well as placing this on your index finger. Got some canned O2 on the way. Just going to play around with it to see how and if supplemental O2 during my training will assist in recovery by using heart rate monitor, pulsox, and taking BP.

[Bow4me]

I agree with you. Anything I can do to help me fill my tag I'll try at least once. Most guys on this forum don't have the altitude difference to deal with as bad as we do. I believe my house is at about 450 and in 36 hours of leaving my house I'll be at camp at 10500 and probably hunting higher. So I'm going to do what I can to make it easier on me. And as far as taking more time to get acclimated I don't have it. It takes me about 9 or 10 days to hunt 5.

[307]

Approximately 2 weeks is the minimum to acclimatize to altitude.

The canned air won't make a difference. At a respiration rate of 15-20, the can will last all of 6-8 minutes. A puff here and there will have absolutely zero effect other than possibly placebo. There are effective medications to minimize symptoms but short of an altitude tent you could sleep in while at home, or EPO, there's no getting around the altitude. Don't mean to rain on the parade but there's a lot of science out there on this topic and it can save you some $ and help to focus on the things that will actually help.

http://skepticalscalpel.blogspot.com/20 ... s-not.html

[SarcasmPhD]

And that is why I'm going to try using the canned O2 now while training. You never know. Sure there are studies against it. And I've read studies for the use. I'm skeptical of any and all studies nowadays. There always seems to be some financial gain for the study. Pro or con. Just seems to have the backing of some company or corporation who fund the studies. Not saying the link you posted is such a study. When universities are relying on millions of dollars being offered to them for a funded study, the results can be swayed to favor the funder. Otherwise, the university is SOL for the next study.

For example, here is a complete opposite study of supplemental O2 that FAVORS it's use. Now, you tell me, which study is correct?

http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10. ... 212-1525OC

[307]

Are you a COPD patient? If not, it doesn't apply to you.

[SarcasmPhD]

You apparently did not read the results pertaining to high intensity training. Sorry if this bothers you that I am going to try something you disagree with. We can agree to disagree.

Good luck this fall to you my friend!

[Lefty]

Sarcasm:
When I lived in Washington State, our house was a 258. we often flew to my in-laws and would be snowmobiling at 8-10,000 the same or next day, always good for a headache.
while living in Utah I could be from 4500 feet to 11,000 in an hour, and other than sucking air, no headache

Why not look at some lower elevation areas to hunt, stay out of the 9,000 foot and above, Tuesady and yesterday I walked up on bulls at 6500 and 6900 here in Idaho,

[307]

You apparently did not read the results pertaining to high intensity training. Sorry if this bothers you that I am going to try something you disagree with. We can agree to disagree.

Good luck this fall to you my friend!

Lol... In COPD PATIENTS! You cannot extrapolate that to a healthy population.

[DirtyErn]

I leave in Wa. And do most of my pre season hiking in the Olympics. As part of my training I also use the training mask for at home training. As I know there is no substitute for elevation, doing something is better than nothing. Yes I ( you) will get " winded" but it's the recovery time that it takes to get back in the game is what I believe the mask and other training will do me.
Good luck on all of your hunts.