How to find outfitter camps and drop camps

[CurlyTail]

When you are scouting an new area, how do you find out if outfitter camps or drop camps are already in the area? Does the local game warden keep track of that sort of thing? Last thing I want to do is hike into a remote area and find out an outfitter and all his clients are already camped in that area. I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to see me either!

[WapitiTalk1]

Jim, the I've used the local FS Ranger Station folks to determine if outfitters work tentative hunt areas. As their folks spend a ton of time on the roads, they normally know where the outfitters park for client day hunts, or, which trail systems they dump their horses at to transport clients into a backcountry camp, or, to a drop camp locations. I've also called local outfitters (NW MT) and actually told them where I was planning on hunting and asked if they had anything going on there; they're pretty good folks and really have no reason to not be truthfull. On another note, I don't shy away from hunting "general" areas outfitters work. After all, they're in that area for a reason. Obviously, just don't hunt the exact same areas they're working. I imagine Indian Summer will chime in here, he knows a thing or two about outfitting

[Lefty]

I would go along with Forest Service guys and the local CO. Many outfitters use the same camp locations year after year.
Competing outfitters might help too

I once offered a guide " I ll stay out if you tell me which days your clients are in. And I did

[Indian Summer]

There will be several Forest Service ranger stations in every ranger district. But only one person at one of them will have the answers you are looking for. That would be the outfitter permit administrator. The bigger rangers stations in the Bitterroot are in Missoula and Hamilton. But the little wee one way back in the West Fork is where things are run from so the "headquarters" doesn't always have all the info.

There are some variations from state to state but generally speaking there are two categories of outfitter camp sites. Designated... and spike. Designated sites can remain up all through bow and gun season. Spikes have shorter time limits. They are both marked on a map that is a part of the outfitter operation plan and the USFS has the coordinates listed.

Early in the year outfitters submit what is called Proposed Use. It lists the number of hunters they have booked and which category of use they will have. Those categories are overnight (pack in) and day use (hotel or lodge) They also disclose the type of hunt as in guided or drop camp because the USFS fees are based on the costs of those hunts. The other piece of information in the Proposed Use filing is which camps they will use. If the camp is there 14 days or less there is no fee. But if it is there longer which most outfitter camps are there is a fee. So the Forest Service knows exactly how many people will be in each camp and when.

There is something called the Freedom of Information Act so if you happen to talk to someone who has the "none of your business" attitude just mention that and if they like their job they will tell you what you want to know. But just be honest and appreciative and tell them you really just want to avoid the outfitters and their clients for your own good and theirs. But first make a call and determine who the permit administrator is, which ranger station they are based out of, and what there phone number is.

[Z Barebow]

Thanks for your insight Joe!

I have a generic questionnaire that I use for biologists, game wardens and FS. I will add a couple of questions regarding this topic.

[CurlyTail]

Hit the jackpot with that reply Indian Summer - Thank You!!!

[Raghorn_Reaper]

Hit the jackpot with that reply Indian Summer - Thank You!!!

No joke! I wondered the same things.

[Backyard]

There will be several Forest Service ranger stations in every ranger district. But only one person at one of them will have the answers you are looking for. That would be the outfitter permit administrator. The bigger rangers stations in the Bitterroot are in Missoula and Hamilton. But the little wee one way back in the West Fork is where things are run from so the "headquarters" doesn't always have all the info.

There are some variations from state to state but generally speaking there are two categories of outfitter camp sites. Designated... and spike. Designated sites can remain up all through bow and gun season. Spikes have shorter time limits. They are both marked on a map that is a part of the outfitter operation plan and the USFS has the coordinates listed.

Early in the year outfitters submit what is called Proposed Use. It lists the number of hunters they have booked and which category of use they will have. Those categories are overnight (pack in) and day use (hotel or lodge) They also disclose the type of hunt as in guided or drop camp because the USFS fees are based on the costs of those hunts. The other piece of information in the Proposed Use filing is which camps they will use. If the camp is there 14 days or less there is no fee. But if it is there longer which most outfitter camps are there is a fee. So the Forest Service knows exactly how many people will be in each camp and when.

There is something called the Freedom of Information Act so if you happen to talk to someone who has the "none of your business" attitude just mention that and if they like their job they will tell you what you want to know. But just be honest and appreciative and tell them you really just want to avoid the outfitters and their clients for your own good and theirs. But first make a call and determine who the permit administrator is, which ranger station they are based out of, and what there phone number is.

Joe, I have 2 questions:

"There will be several Forest Service ranger stations in every ranger district. But only one person at one of them will have the answers you are looking for. That would be the outfitter permit administrator."

Is this the same for other states? Specifically Colorado.

How early? As in when is the earliest I can call to get info on whether or not there will be a camp in a specific area.


Thanks in advance!

[Deanmac]

Great information, I actually talked to an outfitter a couple weeks ago trying to avoid areas they take clients. I will try the above approach before my next trip.

[Indian Summer]

Outfitters who are on National Forest have a user permit. The permit outlines the general things that are uniform policy regardless of where or what state you're in. Aside from that is an operating plan. These plans vary greatly by outfitter and area. That states, among other things, the number of authorized user days in each category, day use hunting, overnight hunting (pack in) lion hunting, summer day and summer overnight use etc. It may have a map of the authorized use area. It will have exact locations of all camp sites and each one will have a site management plan. That outlines things like how many hunters max in camp at a time, any restrictions on livestock. Maybe tent and outhouse locations on a camp layout diagram. The exact coordinates of the sites are also listed,

I suppose the dates may vary because they did change them at will on us once but at some point early in the year, March 30th in the Bitterroot, outfitters submit a Proposed Use form. It tells how may hunters will be in each camp each week and how many head of stock will be there. Then the Forest Service will approve that. It can be amended later if the outfitter adds or cancel any hunts but normally it won't change much after the main booking season. By At the end of the year the outfitter turns in an Actual Use form that spells out exactly who camped and hunted where each week and for how many days and at that point they make any adjustments in the user fees for the year.

When an outfitter has a camp in place longer than the standard 14 days (varies in some places) it is considered an assigned site and they pay a fee. So the USFS knows early in the year where those camps will be as well as any short term spike camps if allowable. Those long term assigned sites are pretty much the same every year.