New to CO, 1st time elk hunting plan & questions...

[ramirojpc]

My family and I moved from TX to CO last summer and I am looking to go with my 16yo son on our 1st elk hunt this coming fall. We live in Colorado Springs and based on articles, forums, and talking to some hunters we are looking to hunt the Gunnison area in the 2nd rifle season with OTC tags (lines up with fall break from school). The plan is to go on foot and hunt out of a tent. I have a few questions to ask, but 1st, I'll mention the research I've done so far and how we are preparing.

From the statistics I see that the area we would like to hunt has between a 14-18% success rate based on available tags and number of hunters, and the highest I see is around 22-24%...well there was 1 unit with 80% success rate but there only 4 tags for that unit and 5 hunters . But since I've never hunted elk before in my life, the question is, does this matter? From strictly looking at the numbers, it doesn't really matter where one goes, there's around 10X or more hunters than tags available, so my follow up questions for those that hunt that area, does that area have a high hunting pressure? If so, how can we improve our chances of killing an elk?

Getting in shape...my son has done cross country and track so he's been running a few miles every day so i think he is good. I started yesterday and the plan is this: start walking 2.5 miles each day for 2 weeks 3-4 times a week, hike 3.5 miles for 2 weeks 3-4 times a week, hike 3.5 miles with hunting pack and load it from 20-60lbs in weekly increments for the next 4 weeks, so this takes me to end of July. Go camping with family in the area we want to hunt 1st week in Aug to look for elk sign and get an idea of how elevation will affect us. Then Aug-Oct, hike 3.5 miles 2-3 times a week, strength training legs, arms and core 2 times a week. Please feel free to suggest alternate training or if I am going overboard.

I think we have a fairly complete gear list so far and I list it below, I would appreciate comments on which gear we may not need or gear we may be missing for the area we are looking to hunt, but I have 2 specific questions in regards to gear that I'd like to ask 1st: For the area we planning to hunt, is a spotting scope needed? or will binos suffice?, and 2nd: Do we need bear protection? I am already planning on getting bear spray, but do we need anything else?

Here is the gear:

• 6.5x284 Savage LRH with 140gn Berger hunting bullet or 142gn Nosler Accubond LR (if they are available by then); 4-12x50 Nikon scope on it
• Probably a 308 for the 2nd gun, don't have it, so not sure yet
• 3 season 4 person tent
• 0 deg sleeping bags with foam cell sleeping pads (head to knees length)
• Outdoorsman Optics Pack (2)
• Boots - wife was worried about us getting deep in snow or water and bought us some below the knee high boots with 800gm ThinSulate at Bass Pro...I wanted something above the ankle and use gaiters if needed...your advise is welcome on this.
• 2 pairs of socks each
• clothes - planning on 3-4 layers: merino wool base layer (suggestions welcome here), some generic WalMart or Bass Pro thick pants and jacket, rain poncho...also taking a long sleeve t-shirt and a sweater in case we get some nicer days.
• GPS, paper map of unit and compass
• Water filter
• Water bladders and purification tablets
• Optimus and Primus cooking systems
• Food: Mountain House, some jerky, power bars, trail mix, anything else?
• Adventure medical kit .9
• wet fire tinder
• Quikclot
• Emergency bivy (2)
• 2-way radios
• 2 skinning knives, 1 survival knife, 1 folding saw
• solar charger for electronics
• game bags
• head lamps (2)
• Leopold rangefinder - kind iffy on this one, I'd only buy this if absolutely necessary since I am not planning on shooting at anything further than 300yds.

By the way, my apologies for the long post...and this is also my 1st post.

[Fridaythe13th]

In the DIY -gear- training, Phantom posted a topic " Whats in your pack" I think it was around the middle of April.
extras you might want:
Small tarp
camera
paracord 100'
Ibuprofen
benadryl
Duct tape for blister (feet)

[ramirojpc]

Thanks for the suggestion, I looked through that thread and others and I have come up with a few more items that I would consider essential to go hunting.

I would really love to get more inputs from others, please, don't be shy, share your thoughts and help me learn.

[Waygoner]

I think you have a pretty good plan. A couple of suggestions though:
Be prepared for winter weather. We have 2 seasons, winter and the 4th of July!
Binoculars are a must, spotting scope would be nice.
Bears aren't a problem so you can skip the bear spray.
If you shoot something and have to leave it overnight, get the meat off the ground and away from coyotes, etc.
Shoot the 1st legal bull you see.
Don't get so caught up in the details that you forget to have fun. Success rate for first timers is pretty low, so don't get discouraged. Enjoy the experience of being in the woods with your son. The memories will be priceless.

[ElkNut1]

Welcome to the Forum sir! You are in for an adventure & a real learning experience as Whitetail hunting & Elk hunting are two different worlds! (grin) You have a great mindset & attitude for the hunt, maintain that! Your workout goals seem very good & are not over board. Not many have ever elk hunted & came back from their hunts & said they were in too good a shape! (grin) Keep up the work outs especially for you, at 16 your son most likely will have little issues.

Yes, you will come upon many hunters as anxious as yourself to get into elk, don't worry about the odds for success. Be willing to cover ground, at times it could be 3 to 10 miles a day on foot as you search for elk & elk country. During rifle hunts I like getting elevation in open to semi open country & glass, glass & glass some more for hours on end especially first 2 hours & last 2 hours of light. Getting in these elevated positions can take a lot of hiking to find areas where hunting pressure may be reduced. Get to your unit a couple days in advance & find these glassing areas so hopefully you have elk located for opening morning, don't use the opener as a scouting day use it as the killing day! What you find camping before hunting seasons start are generally not the same when seasons do start! You will see other hunters, getting into the tougher areas can & does reduce hunting pressure. This first year will be a real learning experience for sure as you cut your teeth on your 1st elk hunt, hunt hard & don't easily give up, it only takes a few seconds of glory to remove days of misery! (grin)

As you camp throughout the Summer you will find where a few things may be added or eliminated as far as your concerns about "what's in your pack or at camp" -- One thing I'd consider is comfort at camp. I would want heat in my tent & a tent big enough to stand up in & move around, comfort is huge as days go by especially with inclement weather that time of year.

Keep training & take it serious. Here's a couple photos of the type of elk country you may be looking for away from the crowds!

ElkNut1

[Elkduds]

I didn't see a pack or packframe on your list, you'll each need one. Quarters weigh 60#+, dragging gets old fast. RE conditioning: climbing grades @ altitude w pack load will be better for you than only running on level ground. In COS, the Incline is the bad daddy of training hikes, very crowded though. You can get some vertical for training on the trails above Bear Creek park, Cheyenne canyon, Cheyenne Mtn state park, Stratton open space, Red Rock open space, Air Force Academy, Queen's canyon above Navigators, trails up Rampart Range.

The more scouting the better, otherwise a lot of your 1st hunt will be more looking for elk than hunting them. You can find lots of great threads here RE map/google earth scouting. Gunny has 3 units: 54, 55, 551. 54 is mostly West Elk wilderness, which has a lot of pressure for a wilderness area, but nothing like you'll see in the other 2 units. 55 is notorious for heavy atv traffic, though there are places to get away from that. 551 is more like 55 than 54, but still some roadless places. Hunting there is from 9-13K elev. 2nd season usually is dry around 9K w snow more likely as you ascend. But it's the weather, so be ready for serious winter conditions, which greatly improve hunting.

Odds are you'll have a great time in beautiful country and learn a ton. If that is your definition of success, you are well on your way. Feel free to PM w more questions. Welcome to the Forum!

[ramirojpc]

I think you have a pretty good plan. A couple of suggestions though:
Be prepared for winter weather. We have 2 seasons, winter and the 4th of July!
Binoculars are a must, spotting scope would be nice.
Bears aren't a problem so you can skip the bear spray.
If you shoot something and have to leave it overnight, get the meat off the ground and away from coyotes, etc.
Shoot the 1st legal bull you see.
Don't get so caught up in the details that you forget to have fun. Success rate for first timers is pretty low, so don't get discouraged. Enjoy the experience of being in the woods with your son. The memories will be priceless.

Haha on the 2 seasons, I used to live in Chicago and there 2 seasons there as well, winter and construction

I think I'll skip the spotting scope for this season, since I am buying pretty much everything for 2 in one shot, it's a bit pricey. Regarding bears, when you say they are not a problem, does that mean there aren't any, or they don't come near people. Other than at a zoo, I've never seen a bear in my life. Thank you for the inputs.

[ramirojpc]

Yes, you will come upon many hunters as anxious as yourself to get into elk, don't worry about the odds for success. Be willing to cover ground, at times it could be 3 to 10 miles a day on foot as you search for elk & elk country. During rifle hunts I like getting elevation in open to semi open country & glass, glass & glass some more for hours on end especially first 2 hours & last 2 hours of light. Getting in these elevated positions can take a lot of hiking to find areas where hunting pressure may be reduced.

That is what I keep on reading/hearing, to be willing to go far to get away from the crowds, and I certainly don't mind. I love the woods, I love being outdoors, so no issue there. But a concern is that if we get lucky and take an animal, packing it out is going to be that much more difficult.

Get to your unit a couple days in advance & find these glassing areas so hopefully you have elk located for opening morning, don't use the opener as a scouting day use it as the killing day! What you find camping before hunting seasons start are generally not the same when seasons do start! You will see other hunters, getting into the tougher areas can & does reduce hunting pressure. This first year will be a real learning experience for sure as you cut your teeth on your 1st elk hunt, hunt hard & don't easily give up, it only takes a few seconds of glory to remove days of misery! (grin)

Good point on getting to the unit a couple of days before, I was thinking of getting there the day before and hiking to where we would establish camp, then start hunting on opening day, but your suggestions makes a lot of sense. Only problem I see is that my son has school right until the Fri. before 2nd rifle season opens. But I can just take some extra days off of work and go scout and establish camp. If I can do this, is there a chance that if I leave our tent out there and drive back on Fri. to get my son, can the tent get stolen?

As you camp throughout the Summer you will find where a few things may be added or eliminated as far as your concerns about "what's in your pack or at camp" -- One thing I'd consider is comfort at camp. I would want heat in my tent & a tent big enough to stand up in & move around, comfort is huge as days go by especially with inclement weather that time of year.

You have made me think about comfort, specially since another poster suggest to prepare for winter in the area we are planning to hunt. As far as tent heating what would you suggest? Could we use our cooking stoves for that?

Keep training & take it serious. Here's a couple photos of the type of elk country you may be looking for away from the crowds!

ElkNut1

Beautiful places, thank you for sharing. I am really looking forward to spending that time with my son. As for success, I would consider it a success if we are able to share the experience, see some beautiful nature, and spend time in the mountains with my son. Killing an elk would be icing on the cake.

[Waygoner]

I can count on one hand the number of bears I've seen in the wild. They run at the sight of a human. I've had more trouble with bears at my house than I have in the woods. A few years ago I left a window on my garage open. A bear pulled off the screen, slide the window open and crawled in. He grabbed a bag of garbage and climbed back out the window. Made a nice mess for me to clean up.

[husky390]

I hope you don't mind, but I made some suggestions to your list. Also, maybe I missed it, but are you truck camping or backpacking in? If truck camping, make sure your tent is sturdy enough to handle a snow load. Our dome tent collapsed on us opening day of deer season in one of the Kaibab units in Az and there's a better chance for us to see more snow than that here in CO. Or, we could not get a flake of snow, you just never know. If you're truck camping and can swing it, check out Davis Tents.

Fitness:

As others suggested, you'll need a frame pack. I'd get that now, throw 30-40lbs on it for starters and start walking around the neighborhood. It will do two things, 1. Get you used to carrying weight, and 2. Most importantly, allow you to adjust it to carry heavy loads.

I see you're lucky enough to live in the Springs, check out the Manitou Incline, I haven't been on it yet but it looks to be a heck of a lung and leg burner. Also, why wait until August to get into elevation? I'd start hiking trails around Pikes Peak now. Weightlifting is great but IMHO nothing beats hiking at elevation with a loaded pack. Just go slowly with adding weight and listen to your body, you don't want to have an IT Band or hip issue a month before season.

A lot of these items are items that I'm using or my buddies are using and are merely a suggestion. Good luck and have fun.

Here is the gear:

6.5x284 Savage LRH with 140gn Berger hunting bullet or 142gn Nosler Accubond LR (if they are available by then); 4-12x50 Nikon scope on it
Probably a 308 for the 2nd gun, don't have it, so not sure yet. I'm a big guy, 6'1, 240 and I'm shooting a Ruger American Compact in .308. I love that rifle, light weight and easy to carry. I'm using a VXII 3-9x scope on it
3 season 4 person tent
0 deg sleeping bags with foam cell sleeping pads (head to knees length)
Outdoorsman Optics Pack (2)
Boots - wife was worried about us getting deep in snow or water and bought us some below the knee high boots with 800gm ThinSulate at Bass Pro...I wanted something above the ankle and use gaiters if needed...your advise is welcome on this. This depends on how you plan to hunt and how hot your feet are. If you're going to sit a saddle, then you should be GTG. If you're going to hike a lot, it may get a bit warm. I can't wear insulated boots and hike for my feet will be soaked in no time and then your feet will freeze. It's not fun. If there's snow on the ground and I'm hiking, I wear a non-insulated boot with a good Merino Wool sock and Bass Pro Gaiters
2 pairs of socks each Get Merino Wool socks. Costco sells a decent pair if you're on a budget, otherwise Darn Tough Socks
clothes - planning on 3-4 layers: merino wool base layer (suggestions welcome here), some generic WalMart or Bass Pro thick pants and jacket, rain poncho...also taking a long sleeve t-shirt and a sweater in case we get some nicer days. NO COTTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I haven't tried their gear yet, but Kings Camo seems to have some decent stuff. Last year I wore Cabelas Microtex pants even with 8" of snow on the ground.
GPS, paper map of unit and compass If you get up to Denver, BLM sells Topo maps, call to make sure they have the area you want, sometimes they sell out
Water filter Be careful of the Sawyers, you cannot let them freeze
Water bladders and purification tablets Make sure it has a bite valve cover or switch to Nalgenes, having to thaw a bite valve in your mouth is not fun
Optimus and Primus cooking systems
Food: Mountain House, some jerky, power bars, trail mix, anything else? Peanut butter, honey and bacon bagels or tortillas will fill you up and give you a ton of energy. Make sure your bite valve is not frozen before eating. I'd also look into dehydrated fruit (costco) and instant mashed potatoes. If you're truck camping, pre-make meals and freeze them in a ziploc bag, then let them thaw over a day or two and heat in a pot. MH gets old after awhile
Adventure medical kit .9 Break out the useless stuff, add aspirin, benadryl and ibuprofen.
wet fire tinder
Quikclot Ditch this and get a quality tourniquet.
Emergency bivy (2) I'm not sure what this is? Are you talking about a space blanket?
2-way radios These can be iffy depending on terrain
2 skinning knives, 1 survival knife, 1 folding sawHavalon or Raptor Razor and a Leatherman
solar charger for electronics
game bags Carnivore or TAG Bags
head lamps (2) I use Zebra lamps with lithium batteries
Leopold rangefinder - kind iffy on this one, I'd only buy this if absolutely necessary since I am not planning on shooting at anything further than 300yds.

[Pop-r]

Here goes; those boots will not allow you to hunt most of that area that you're going to need to hunt to find/kill elk the second season. They'll simply kill your feet covering ground as Paul has stated you will most likely need to do. Be prepared for cold nights! Coldest valley in CO they claim. It gets COLD QUICK when the sun goes down. Even in the summer! If you're using this kind of camp then why eat freeze dried meals? They SUCK for caloric intake & I promise you to punch this tag you're not gonna get by on that stuff very long! Eat good! Warmth & energy! The country Paul shows in his pic is beautiful & elky looking just as the area you want to hunt is! Don't let it fool you tho! Most elk at that point are still in country may be 5x that rough! Get as good with your rifle as possible at distances you've never dreamed! It's very likely to need it! Be in shape! Good luck!

[Raghorn_Reaper]

With the young guy you may want to think about a hot tent. Having a titanium stove and some fire could raise the spirits.

[six]

Just a couple of thoughts.
Nothing feels better than a fresh pair of socks every day. I buy a new package of Redwings socks every year just for the trip. Then when I get home I replace the old worn out ones in the drawer.

As for your workouts. Google "couch to a 5K" this worked for me. I did it every day of the week tho and I started my workout with a half mile walk just to warm up. I lost 20 pounds in about 3 months.

Rangefinder isn't a must, but I would recommend it. Elk are the hulk of the deer family and after hunting whitetails my entire life it was hard for me to estimate range correctly of elk.

I have seen bears and a lot of bear sign in the areas mentioned above. You already have a weapon with you and you should be pretty efficient with it. I saw one bear up close at 30 yards he took off like lightning when I stood up.

As far as packs go. I have a pack with an internal frame. It also is small enough to use for a day pack and can be made larger to haul more stuff if needed. It has straps to strap on a game bag full of meat. I personally don't like the big external freighter pack. They are big and heavy and you usually have to go back to camp to get them when you get an elk down.

Hiking poles. They are now a must for me when hauling meat. I bought ski poles from a second hand shop and customized them. I'm thinking the adjustable poles will be in my pack next year. They can also double as a support for a dome tent to prevent failure from snow load.

Game bags are a must in my pack. They keep the meat clean and the processor will appreciate that.

After you get a few years under your belt you'll see what works for you and what doesn't.

[Backyard]

Leukotape P (Google it) for blisters is by far the best. Better than duct tape, stays on even through sweat and wet. I wrap about a yard around the lighter that I keep in my "necessities" pouch. Put it on a hot spot before and you won't see a blister later.
And yes, it will also work to "fix" shit on the trail too so the duct tape can just stay on the workbench at home.

Good luck to ya!

[Vanish]

But I can just take some extra days off of work and go scout and establish camp. If I can do this, is there a chance that if I leave our tent out there and drive back on Fri. to get my son, can the tent get stolen?

Well, there's always a chance, but consider this: You'll probably away from your tent longer while hunting than you will driving to pick up your son. I would set up my tent a couple days in advance if I could! There are people who set up a base camp and then spike camp out 2-4 days at a time (including me). Its a risk worth taking when elk hunting. You can save a lot of energy for opening day if you don't have to set up camp the night before.

[Ponyboy_jonas]

The list looks pretty good! But you should always have a rangefinder in handy. On my last years rifle hunt, I would try and guess the distance then range it accurately. I was sometimes off by 300yds +.
Good Luck!

[Passin Thru]

I recommend packing and finding what you want to carry before season. Most of it you'll throw away. I know from living on the Appalachian trail that people lose about half their pack in te first week, finding out they didn't need 20 cans of Tuna. I love to see a hunter with a 60 lb pack and a rifle with 3 knives. You can hunt with a folding blade and a swiss army knife if you have something to sharpen it. You only need 1 stove but 1 ea works well. Yes on filter and Camelback. I pack coffee but just boil it on the Primus in the pot I cook every thing in. Drink from plastic insulated smashproof cup like a 12-16 oz one. Lighter and emergency matches in dry container. Watch the gutless method of butchering and do it. Guy does it in 9 minutes!
So, my pack has very small tent and pad, emergency blanket, food, primus, pot, coffee, no 1st aid kit as you can make bandages out of most anything cloth. Rain gear, can be worn on top layer as snow suit, breaks wind, socks in plastic bag, game bags, 100 ft para cord, Duct tape(the handymans best friend) I carry a compass extra batteries and a GPS (Garmin etrex vista hcx) and put in waypoints. My wife wants me to carry SPOT because at age 67 I tend to get lost and unfortunatly I am a CAP member and they get tired of coming to find me. I have learned to travel light and remember, water runs down hill, if you get lost follow the water. Good luck and the Elk at Gunnison hang out in MCD's parking lot through September to January.