Newb GMU questions?

[DuckBuster]

Hey guys,
After a lot of thought my family and I are planning a four man hunt(two with licenses, two along for the ride/experience). I've done a TON of research, from a good frame pack all the way up to time of year and which GMU you to pick. The problem is that I'm not sure which GMU to go with... I'm the more "organized" of the group so they've decided to place the burden of choosing a location up to me. We are all newbs with the exception of my brother-in-law who went elk hunting on private land when he was training out there. Were going to go second season mainly just for experience, crossing our fingers for at least one elk and are hoping to make it an annual/bi-annual ordeal. A lot of articles have swayed me towards the Flat Tops region, GMU's 12,231,23,24,25,33 and 34. The year to year percentages aren't all that great with the exception of 12 which is about half public and half private according to my maps. After reading and a discussion with a fellow from my neck of the woods, he said there is basically a hunter-induced migration westward and almost all the elk have left the area by second rifle. Is this true?
The second area I looked at was Maroon Bells/Hunter-Frying Pan GMU's. 36,43,45,53,55,444,471 and 521. Percentages aren't bad, hunting pressure seems to be "fairly" low according to rough estimates provided by CPW. But the elk herd in terms of numbers looks small on paper and with us being first timers, we might as well throw a dart on a map and head for that area. Everybody says to look for saddles and what have you but from my research there seems to be an awfully large amount of them spread over hundreds of thousands of acres.
Third area in mind would be Routt National Forest. GMU 4, 5 and 441 all have a success rate over 20 percent. Driven through the area before, beautiful country, too.
So, gentlemen, and possibly ladies. I'm not looking for your "hot spot" just looking for a little advice if you're willing to give it out, my lips are sealed indefinitely.(Mainly because nobody would ask for elk hunting advice from a duck hunter) but still. And from my observations about 4,5, and 12 having such a higher success rate because of the plethora of private land be correct?
Thank you all for taking the time to read and respond in advance, also feel free to PM would be willing to trade some quality elk information for a weekend under some duck feathers!
---Take 'EM!---

[CurlyTail]

I hunt Colorado but am not familiar with any of those units - sorry. That is alot of pressure to be the "scout" for your group. Don't worry, there is no such thing as a bad unit, and it is difficult to predict the degree of competition from other hunters year to year. The first year will be a bit of a crap shoot no matter what you do. Adjust your expectations accordingly. Once you get there, you have to find an area that has at least a few elk and only a few hunters.

Some ideas. Check valleys that have no official trails. You see more elk bushwacking than following a trail. Look for a slightly flat area that is isolated from the road by a steep slope. Guys wont go up a steep slope without a trail. Look for a similar areas that requires a river crossing or creek crossing - guys don't want to do that either. I have better luck getting away from other hunters this way than hiking 5 miles along a well established trail - guess what you find - backpack hunters and horse hunters.

In order to maximize the "fun" with your trip, I would ask you to consider hunting closer to the rut. I consider chasing bugles, and calling elk to be far more entertaining than sitting high points, and stalking for a 200 yard shot. Admittedly, the elk steaks will taste great either way. It is much easier to locate Elk in the early season since they are much more vocal. In colorado, this would mean Archery season, Muzzleloader season, or 1st rifle. The woods are crowded during rifle season, especially OTC units. Better weather and less crowded early season. If you plan to do your trip every couple of years, this would lend itself to a limited unit or season requiring one preference point.

Just some thoughts. I am a waterfowler also and I warn you that this Elk hunting is as addictive as crack cocaine!

[Elkduds]

Welcome aboard. You are doing OTC this year, correct? 2nd season is when everybody comes. Consider 3rd season if your time is flexible. While reviewing your statistics, note total # of hunters and total # of days hunted to learn how many pumpkins will be sharing your wilderness experience. I know several hunded ATV-mounted "hunters" who would argue about 55 being low pressure. You will find a good hunt that will suits your group. How high, how steep, how willing to hunt in snow, base camp or pack in, these factors will influence your choice of GMU. Tell us more!

[DuckBuster]

How high, how steep, how willing to hunt in snow, base camp or pack in, these factors will influence your choice of GMU. Tell us more!

Thank you CurlyTail and Elkduds! I am a member on a few other waterfowl forums and find the duck/goose hunters to be cocky and for the most part unwilling to lend a helping hand, especially to new hunters. Always nice to get away from those guys Anyways, Elkduds. We are willing to traverse any terrain thrown at us to spread the gap out between any hunters, as far as how were going to do it we have a few options...
1. Haul up a side by side and camp next to a wilderness area and have a daily hike in of at least a mile to a hunting area. That being said I am finding it very difficult to find any reliable maps that show where we could drive a UTV since most trails are 40in. and below only. Also sort of concerned that another group might have the same general idea and we end up camping next to them. I do also realize that people on four wheelers and UTV's are looked down upon but this is just an option.
2. We park our vehicle at a designated area and have a 3-5 mile walk in, set up camp and hunt that area or another mile or so into the woods. And yes, I do realize that is much easier said than done especially for a non-res dealing with the altitude change.
To answer a question of time flexibility, we are pretty flexible as of now, and snow doesn't bother us. That being said, not knowing what to expect since mother nature can throw a mean sucker punch! Should we be worried about getting a lot of snow and having a difficult time drive through those remote mountain roads? Also, any advantages from third season over second beside the obvious large influx of hunters? First season would be preferred- we are going to look at leftover tags when they go on sale in July! Just trying to get basic info for second season right now since it seems like the most likely option.
I have also read of people just parking along a road in a national forest and heading into the woods and setting up a camp. Not being from the area should we be worried of people vandalizing or even stealing them? It might sound ridiculous but I can only imagine hunting season could bring some scumbag people or anti-hunters looking to ruin a guys hunt. I'll probably be posting another response to this thread pertaining first and second season. My thoughts are all jumbled and that's all I have for now haha.
Once again all of your help and insight is greatly appreciated!
---Take 'Em---

[brun]

You are probably right about unit 12. There are a lot of elk, but there are a bunch of big ranches that have a very high success rate. Public land there has a lot of elk, but a lot of hunters also.
Maroon Bells Snowmass Wilderness is beautiful country, but very high elevation and really difficult terrain. Not as many hunters as unit 12, can be a great hunt if you are willing to work hard. Not the numbers of elk you will find in 12, but some good bulls for otc units.
Only way to find out is to get out there. Have fun wherever you go.

[longbowelk]

I think you have got a couple of units off 36 is not close to the frying pan wilderness area. It is north of Vail and while they sell leftover cow tags for there it is a pretty crowded area during second season. I would recommend if your party is open to muzzleoading or archery to go that route. For weather second rifle season is definitely in a normal year when snow falls and sticks around not just melt. 2nd rifle is super busy in the state having said that you can kill an elk it just might not be very easy.

[CurlyTail]

You can camp anywhere in the National Forest. The park service may encourage you to camp in an established campground, but it is not mandatory. There is no problem (rare) with theft or vandalizing your vehicle in this part of the world. Nobody will mess with your vehicle. You do need to be prepared for unexpected snow and treacherous road conditions. In the month of September, it will snow several inches on average one weekend in the month. In October and November, you can can count on 2 or 3 snow events, lasting 1 to 3 days, per month in the mountains. The higher the altitude, the more frequent the snow storms. Most Colorado mountain roads hold up pretty well when wet. In my opinion, Colorado Wilderness areas are a magnet for nonresident hunters and therefore to be avoided (in general). ATV's are not looked down upon, but they do make noise and you can spook elk driving them to your destination which can anger someone hunting those elk. You will not be able to gauge the hunting pressure in a specific location without actual boots on the ground at the exact place and time you are concerned about. Have a plan A, and a plan B in mind in case plan A is overcrowded.

[DuckBuster]

Thank you all for your advice it will definitely be helpful on deciding a season and GMU! I'll post a follow up reply once we have decided. I am incredibly lucky to have been given advice from local hunters and also people with the general knowledge, this is truly a great forum!

[cohunter14]

Hey guys,
A lot of articles have swayed me towards the Flat Tops region, GMU's 12,231,23,24,25,33 and 34. The year to year percentages aren't all that great with the exception of 12 which is about half public and half private according to my maps. After reading and a discussion with a fellow from my neck of the woods, he said there is basically a hunter-induced migration westward and almost all the elk have left the area by second rifle. Is this true?

No, that is not true that the elk migrate out of those units. They are very popular OTC units, and for a good reason to as there are a ton of elk in that region.

I would also recommend staying away from wilderness areas. That seems to be the magnet for every newcomer who wants to 'get away from the crowds.' Instead of getting away from them, all you end up doing is parking in the same spot and walking in together. I would recommend camping elsewhere and heading in each day. If you get a half mile off of forest roads, you will escape 90+ percent of the hunters in the non-wilderness areas.

As has been said, the weather during 2nd season can be very unpredictable. You could have 70 degree days or you could have a 18" of snow. Definitely something to keep in mind when heading back in on forest service roads. Some of them can become impassable with that amount of snow.