I have a problem

by **six** » 03 16, 2015 • [Post 1]

Sorry this is going to get a little long winded but please bear with me.

Well here goes. It all started 2 years ago. A friend at work wanted to go elk hunting. He wasn’t the elk hunting type but I said sure. A couple days later he asked if he could bring his girlfriend. Again more the merrier and at least I wouldn’t end up babysitting the newb. Turned out to be a great trip. Even tho our group of 5 never got a shot at an elk. Campfire stories, cooking over a woodstove, thawing out your water bottle out in the mid-day sun for a drink. Turns out the newb’s loved it and vowed to return.
Well when I got home my wife was over the top jealous and didn’t talk nice for a couple weeks. After she calmed down she said she saw a picture on FB of the hunting group and she started to worry. I’ve never done anything to make her think she can’t trust me. It seems her ex-husband was less than honest when it came to being faithful.

Well you’ve probably guessed by now the newb’s want to go elk hunting again. I talked to my wife about it and she asked me to please not take them. She said it gave her a sickening feeling in her stomach just talking about it with me. Out of respect for my wife I will not be hunting with the newb’s this year. So here are my options.

Option #1
Tell the newb’s I am going hunting with the other two guys and they cant go. Tell them why.
Option #2
I’ve been asked to go to Illinois on a whitetail hunt. It’s a little pricier, but it would be a way out for me.

I’ve been elk hunting since 2002 and haven’t missed a season. I really don’t want to start now.
Anyone out there have similar experiences? I am open to any and all opinions

by **wvelkhtr** » 03 16, 2015 • [Post 2]

That's a tough situation to be in, any chance you could take the wife along on the trip?

by **under H2O hunter** » 03 16, 2015 • [Post 3]

I have some experience handling this issue...

1. Always be honest. Both with your wife but most importantly with yourself.
2. If you want to go elk hunting then you need to go elk hunting. If you go whitetail hunting and you don't get anything there could be some resentment towards your wife.
3. I respect you for your willingness to respect your wife and your relationship. However this not a social hour at the bar, you're hunting. So your wife should come along if she is insecure and worried about elk camp to see what its all about. Or she needs to trust in the 2 of you's relationship and not put limitations on your activities.
4. There is still plenty of time seek out some professional help. If your wife has deep seeded issues then you can't change those. If you choose to except those then thats on you. But I can tell you that this is very unhealthy because healthy relationships are based on trust in the present and not based on past people or relationships.

I know that this is more of a therapy session rather then an alternative to your problem. So let me give you some alternatives

1. Go hunting SOLO
2 Find a new group to go elk hunting with.
3 Stay hunting with your new b friends but let them know how your wife is feeling about their GF's going
4. Divorce is always an alternative

by **Fridaythe13th** » 03 16, 2015 • [Post 4]

That is a situation nobody want to be in. Yes this year whitetail is a fix, but what about next year or the years to follow. Maybe see if she want to come with put it back in her court she what see thinks. When she says YES, you well have a new best hunting partner.

by **Elkduds** » 03 16, 2015 • [Post 5]

Given the situation as you have stated it, this is very much your wife's issue. That is to say, you stated no reason for her to be justifiably jealous of you. She and you should address it now, work it through w professional help if necessary so it does not continue to damage your relationship. Here is how a therapist would guide you to address it:

You get to listen to everything she is willing to tell you about her jealousy. Her history w the ex, probably w her dad or parents, her emotions :!:

have to all get aired b4 she can listen to your side of this conflict. While this is happening you get to encourage it (sounds like you were really hurt by that"), and avoid getting defensive. You are just listening, supporting, acknowledging. It probably won't happen in one sitting.

Next, you get to tell your side of it. How difficult it is to see her being upset, how frustrating to be blamed when you are faithful in your thoughts and actions. You give examples of ways you have been trustworthy even when you suspected she did not trust you. You should express how much you enjoyed the trip, how you thought of her while you were there, how good you believe a guy outing is for your relationship, how frustrating it is for you for her to baselessly ask you to change the trip, how concerned you are this will be a problem whenever you are apart.

Finally you negotiate. What assurance would she need to help her feel less jealous/anxious/threatened while you were hunting? Daily contact from a GPS-located sat phone, in which you provide reassurance that she can trust you is one alternative, the Delorme does that from anywhere. Sending pics by phone of the hunt in real time may suffice.

Continue to demonstrate trustworthiness daily. You have already proven she can trust you on this kind of trip, keep that in mind and remind her gently, if necessary. Get in the habit of showing her that you are interested and devoted to her, willing to listen and reassure. Hard to beat a 1-to-1 (no kids) date night every 1-2 weeks for keeping that going. Have her spend time w your hunting pals so she can get her own sense of them. Keep her informed in trip planning. If you don't want her to go on the hunt and she doesn't want to go, that would be a terrible idea. As a trustworthy, loyal (helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, reverent-Boy Scout Oath) husband, you deserve to ask for and receive what you need in your marriage. This is not too much to ask. Good luck, good hunting.

by **dreamhunter** » 03 16, 2015 • [Post 6]

Look her in the eyes and tell her she's your gal and there is no reason to worry. She will understand especially after you have that heart to heart with her. Then in a kidding kinda way you can tell her you have a Bull tag and not an either sex tag so not to worry. But if you did have and either sex tag you would pick her again and again.

by **hike2hunt** » 03 16, 2015 • [Post 7]

So this begs the question. If you were a full time hunting guide, and she was a paying client, what would her thoughts be on that.

Really good advise from some members here. Always nice to get honest opinions.

by **dreamhunter** » 03 16, 2015 • [Post 8]

Good Point !

by **EVD** » 03 16, 2015 • [Post 9]

If a man is a cheater that is looking to sleep with other women, he's going to do that, elk hunt or not. I'm guessing she married you because you are not a cheater. If she loves you she wants to see you happy. Elk hunting = happiness. Let her know she has nothing to worry about. Send her texts and call whenever possible to share the experience.

With all the time, effort, and money that go into elk hunting, only a fool would waste all that to cheat on his wife. Hell a man of that inclination can chase skirts 365 days a year. Only get 1 month a year to chase elk.

by **wapitibowman** » 03 16, 2015 • [Post 10]

There is no one more important in my life than my wife. I truly respect your decision to honor your commitment to her. No amount of elk hunting will bring you the lasting happiness a marriage relationship can bring you. Someone mentioned divorce (I believe it was in a joking manner - anyways, I hope it was). Elk hunting is a poor excuse for divorce!!

I believe you should be honest with your friends. If they are your friends, they will completely understand and respect your decision. If they aren't your friends, and proceed to speak poorly of your wife, you do not need them in your life. There are too many things that are tearing down marriage and the importance of family - elk hunting should not be one of them.

Wapitibowman

by **Lefty** » 03 16, 2015 • [Post 11]

wvelkhtr wrote:That's a tough situation to be in, any chance you could take the wife along on the trip?

That would be my suggestion also. Heck someone needs to cook :shock:

Im glad my wife isnt the jealous type or have any concerns. She even sends me out.

An acquaintance once mentioned half joking something like "are you sure he is hunting?" My wife laughed and said I do a good job of making it look like I was camping, "eating the junk I eat, the messy truck, stinky clothes.

by **six** » 03 17, 2015 • [Post 12]

Thanks guys. A lot of good advise. Looks like I have some work to do. I will keep you posted. Ive got less than a month before I have to send in my tags.

by **Charina** » 03 18, 2015 • [Post 13]

First post here. Unfortunately, I have more experience with this issue than I do elk hunting. Since I can’t share much of experience or expertise with elk, perhaps I’ll try to contribute with what I can on this topic.

How about Option #3? See if the Newb’s GF is even interested in going again, or if the relationship has cooled enough that she might be talked into allowing it to be a “guys-only trip”? Perhaps there is no issue at all, as she won’t be coming if newb comes again this year.

The spectrum of insecurity can range from mild and inconsequential, to a debilitating issue that plagues a person on a daily basis, preventing them from sleeping correctly, being able to trust fully, and have panic attacks from seeing non-threatening, but similar situations (e.g. seeing a news story about cheating spouse).

Fortunately for you, it sounds like your wife may be on the milder end of the spectrum, perhaps only a result of a former experience rather than deep rooted and pervasive attachment insecurity resulting from neglectful parents. However, it does sound like her reaction was pretty strong (couple weeks not nice, sickened to talk about it again), and fairly irrationally based (as if more is freely shared by your newb friend than some water and trail mix from his pack). Given the level of her reaction I strongly suspect that reassurance and working on a healthy relationship in the off-season is not going to be adequate. It is very unlikely that her position will change based on those actions alone. You’re not dealing with causative logic here. You’re dealing with someone desperate to defend against deep pain, at almost any cost. When someone has that strong of a reaction, to cause psychosomatic responses, you are not likely within reach of reason and simple reassurance.

I agree with parts of what under H2O hunter posted - that you two need to maintain and keep honesty in the relationship, and that it isn’t healthy for you to choose whitetail, IF, it is going to lead to resentment. Be cautious giving up something of high value to you. It can cause more trouble than the fights that might ensue if you go anyway. Not only your resentment, but if the conditions are wrong, it can be the beginning of a slippery slope of additional demands that you will eventually resent. I'm all for considering a spouse's feelings, and highly encourage concessions and compromise . . . yet, there is value in the overused advice to 'hold your ground' when it comes to core values and dreams (like elk hunting appears to be to you - "since 2002 and haven’t missed a season. I really don’t want to start now")

If you are not totally ok with giving up elk hunting with your group, then something along the lines of what Elkduds mentions about the communication process is in order. If such a conversation is in order, I would highly suggest you two get and read the book: Ten Lessons to Transform Your Marriage by Gottman. It’s a worthy book for any relationship, but especially ones where there are conflicting desires and deep feelings that need to be worked out. Its available as an audio book as well – I listened to it on my daily commute. And it’s a lot cheaper than the several therapist sessions it would take to go through a deep topic like this!

by **foxvalley** » 03 18, 2015 • [Post 14]

You just have to be honest,to your wife, and your friends.One thing I would try is have all four of you get together so your wife can see for herself its just a fun elkhunt,and she can get to know your new friends.Do something that your wife really likes to do,with the four of you,dinner ,drinks, shopping etc.

by **Lefty** » 03 18, 2015 • [Post 15]

six wrote:Thanks guys. A lot of good advise. Looks like I have some work to do. I will keep you posted. Ive got less than a month before I have to send in my tags.

I was telling my wife about your post He first comment was "Why doesn't she go along"
the she said""They have a problem" " I hope they are young and just married"

by **six** » 03 19, 2015 • [Post 16]

Lefty

That's why I cant wrap my head around this. I'm 45 and she's 49. We've been married 11 years.

by **Indian Summer** » 03 19, 2015 • [Post 17]

Lefty... my wife said the exact same thing: Why doesn't the guy ask his wife to come along too.

Is that not an option Six?

Quick story: I have a buddy who fishes a lot. He used to do back to back weeks at different spots in Ontario. His wife is actually very cool but she would get a little um... bitchy when he was gone for so long. She loves to have a good time and she was just jealous that he was out "having fun" while she wasn't. So one year we took the wives to Lake St Clair with us. She caught a pile of big muskies. But our routine ran her into the ground. She would say to us throughout the week "You guys call this a freakin vacation!" At the end of the week she laughed and said well.... I'll never be jealous again when I know this is what's going on while I'm home on the couch. Have fun without me next year Eddie! :lol:

If you were to take your wife along my guess is that once she sees that you barely have enough energy to eat before crawling into a sleeping bag she may feel the same way. You all had the time of your life but not everyone looks at our labor of love as a picnic. I really think it would help.

Now I'll go in a different direction. I think it is very disrespectful of her to think that your friends wife would give her reason to worry. I also think that people... men and women, who limit or take away the things that bring their spouse joy, or try to change you to suit their needs are doomed. So you better fix the problem and by that I don't mean walk away from your partner or his wife. They are not the problem. Enough said.

by **Bow4me** » 03 19, 2015 • [Post 18]

I don't think my wife would care for the fresh camp meat either. And as far as that goes I think it is a little disrespectful of the Newby to invite a girlfriend on his first trip. I would tell him that you have no problem with the gf but you would like to keep it just the guys. And he should be able to respect that.

by **Indian Summer** » 03 19, 2015 • [Post 19]

I don't know Bow4me.... He didn't just invite her without asking. And why should it matter if the person he invited is male or female? We're talking about adults here. I don't discriminate. I have two friends in Wyoming whose girlfriends always come on antelope hunts and sometimes on elk hunts. They are our equals and make for very good company. If my wife told me I couldn't hunt with them the problem would be all hers! But she would never do that. Of course I wouldn't refer to them as "camp meat" either. :roll:

I think Six should put a positive spin on it and tell his wife this looks like a good time to overcome her insecurities and strengthen the mutual trust. A chance to make the relationship even better. Maybe take a sat phone and call her every evening. Little things like that can go a long way.

by **ABQ_Chica** » 03 20, 2015 • [Post 20]

Oh, boy...this is a tough one. But as the only female hunter in a camp full of men, I've been on the other side of this coin. My husband does not hunt, and does not enjoy the outdoors, so if your wife is similar, I completely understand inviting her along may NOT be an option. So here's my perspective:

Honesty in advance can go a long way. Did your wife know ahead of time that a woman would be in camp? If she only found out after the fact, she may have felt you were trying to hide it, and resented THAT more than the woman herself.

Honesty between you and your hunting partners is just as important, too. Several of the men I hunt with are married or have girlfriends (none of whom hunt). So before each and every hunt, I have a sit-down "let's all be honest" talk with my hunting partners. It's an awkward conversation, but I want to be 100% sure their wives/GFs are okay with me being the only female in hunt camp. To me, it seems like the respectful thing to do. I would hate to discover afterwards that my presence on a hunt caused marital problems or trust issues because they felt like they couldn't say anything. Perhaps this is something your hunting partners would be up for?

If not, would it be an option for your wife to meet your hunting partners (girlfriends/wives included) in some kind of social setting, so she might feel more comfortable with them? Although my husband didn't have a problem with me hunting with male friends, I like to make sure we all meet each other beforehand. It might help reveal any simmering trust or jealousy issues, or show everyone really is okay with each other.

Although I agree with the opinions saying it shouldn't matter since you're all adults, I mostly agree with Wapitibowman: elk hunting is a poor excuse for a divorce. Trust in relationships has to be earned, and unfortunately, many of us have had that trust violated. I've been fortunate that my husband has never minded me hunting with men. But if he ever did become the least bit anxious or jealous about it, I would respect his feelings and just hunt solo until we sorted our relationship out.

Well, that's 2 cents from the lone female in elk camp... Relationships can be complicated, and these kinds of things are rarely easy, so I genuinely hope you're able to find a solution.

by **pointysticks** » 03 20, 2015 • [Post 21]

I couldn't handle a jealous (well crippling jealousness) spouse.

Good luck.

by **Indian Summer** » 03 20, 2015 • [Post 22]

ABQ_Chica I'm glad you chimed in. I thought of you when I commented. There could come a day when we hunt Wyoming together... along with Mtn Mutt and I wondered how the husband would handle that. Your perspective and way of dealing with it is perfect and I'd be glad to come down and meet him... and shoot a javelina while I'm at it. lol Actually I was hoping he would come along. I love converting people to outdoors folks. I have a few friends in AZ that I'd love to visit and the world is just a motorcycle ride way to me. I have a tree stand spot all picked out for you too.

by **ElkNut1** » 03 20, 2015 • [Post 23]

ABQ_Chica, very well said!

ElkNut1

by **under H2O hunter** » 03 20, 2015 • [Post 24]

I know its been said a couple times about getting divorced and elk hunting being a poor excuse.. But wouldn't any reason be a poor excuse.. Just like being insecure is a poor excuse not to let someone go elk hunting?

Fact remains that two people in any relationship need to work together to make that relationship work. If the relationship is one sided then there is zero chance of it working out regardless of the reason. I did toss out divorce as a tongue and cheek joke. But there is some truth behind it. When I was married my ex-wife hated that I was a hunter. Yes she knew I was hunter from the get go but for some reason I guess she thought she could change that. In the end we ended up getting divorced because we were not compatible. Hunting for me is something I hold near and dear to my heart and is a strong passion. I no long date women that don't understand my need to hunt and be outdoors. So would I get divorced over not being able to go hunting? Absolutely but it wouldn't be the first thing I would do to solve the problem.

by **Indian Summer** » 03 20, 2015 • [Post 25]

My wife lets me do whatever I want. I don't ask to go elk hunting or to take off on my motorcycle for a week. I just say this is my plan. The only thing she ever asks is when will you be back, do you need a lunch, and do you need any clothes washed. But I have plenty of friends that aren't so lucky. One buddy has been banking Colorado deer points with me he had to ask his wife if he could go west on a deer hunt.... in 7 years. She said she'd think about it. What!

So I consider myself pretty lucky. And I totally agree trying to change a person is NOT a good idea. BUT... if I had it to do again I would absolutely love to marry a woman who hunted. To be able to share my passion with my wife would be a dream come true. I envy and admire couples who hunt together.

by **WapitiTalk1** » 03 20, 2015 • [Post 26]

Been watching your thread with interest sir. Marriage is not a 50/50 deal as our wonderfull media would like us to believe, it's more like 60/40 in the best of times and from experience, it swings back and forth throughout it's life cycle. Women are for the most part, much different creatures than men. Not a bad thing, but something to consider in the decision making process. At my stage in life, marriage, and age.... if I told Mrs. Phantom that a buddy and his wife or girlfriend, who liked to hunt, was accompanying me on an elk hunt in XX state, she would not bat an eye but say something like "better her than me". My wife is supportive of my love for the outdoors and hunting (although not much in the personal involvement category) has always been that way. In her younger days and perhaps in the earlier part of our marriage, yes, she may have had a problem with it. That's just the way they are built (agian, not a bad thing but think about it, dudes are not that much different.....if in your first few years of marriage to your sweetie, she said that "Frank" really liked to be involved with and participate in some type of event that she loved which was not a traditionally male involved activity, it may raise your hackles a bit, wondering why this guy was all in to her event, whatever it was). If you truly love your wife and she's all into you, you may have to make some kind of sacrifice to keep the ball rolling. I have hunted with many folks and will hopefully, hunt with many more before the elk god's take me away. Just like in elk hunting, patience, adjustment when needed, and perseverence for what is most important will get you to the prize. Kinda up to you to determine what the prize is. Just my thoughts.

by **wapitibowman** » 03 20, 2015 • [Post 27]

under H2O hunter wrote:I know its been said a couple times about getting divorced and elk hunting being a poor excuse.. But wouldn't any reason be a poor excuse.. Just like being insecure is a poor excuse not to let someone go elk hunting?

Fact remains that two people in any relationship need to work together to make that relationship work. If the relationship is one sided then there is zero chance of it working out regardless of the reason. I did toss out divorce as a tongue and cheek joke. But there is some truth behind it.

I figured you meant it as a joke and I wasn't attempting to call you out. Fact is, I have some very strong opinions about marriage and family relationships. I can think of 2-3 reasons that truly merit a divorce, in my opinion. In my experience in dealing with people, all relationship problems (husband/wife, friend/friend, etc) are a result of selfishness. Someone or both parties are thinking more about their needs and not considering the other's - this leads to contention. If we could be more considerate of one another, we could largely rid ourselves of relationship problems. It does take both sides working together for everyone's needs to be met. There has to be some give and some take . . . when it's all about ME, there will be struggle.

Wapitibowman

by **Lefty** » 03 22, 2015 • [Post 28]

Indian Summer wrote:she was just jealous that he was out "having fun" while she wasn't..

Six
Maybe it is more of this than anything!
I know that was a problem with my in-laws My in laws are in their mid 80's. Two weeks ago my wife and her dad were going to make a 4 day trip fishing and bumming around salmon river country . Friday evening they had cell reception my wife sent pics to her mom. My FIL talked to my MIL and the trip was made short, even after 63 years of marriage.

My wife and I have worked this out over the years. Our first year of marriage she had a hard time when I had to give bids for work, then trapping season, gone one or two night than home a night.
But I will say when hunting season starts full force,.. all the honey-do's are done.

by **Lefty** » 03 22, 2015 • [Post 29]

Phantom16 wrote:,... it's more like 60/40 ,.......

just made me chuckle 8-)

by **six** » 04 01, 2015 • [Post 30]

Well guys thanks again for everyone who took the time to respond to my situation.

It's been a rough 3 weeks dealing with this. My wife says the worst 3 weeks of our marriage.

Bottom line she said to do what I want. She said it would upset her if I go with them, but it also upsets her that I am mad at her for her not wanting me to go with them.

Well we made a compromise so to speak. The newbs have their own group going now. We will be hunting 4 hours away from each other. I gave them some coordinates of where I saw elk and where I killed a bull last year. My group will be hunting the same unit in a new area. It's looks good on paper so we will see. I did tell the wife if the newbs get an elk down it would be all hands on deck.

by **Elkduds** » 04 01, 2015 • [Post 31]

Compromise, essential to successful partnerships such as marriage. Compromise is an agreed solution that equally DISsatisfies both parties. Nobody gets everything they want, everyone gives up something to get what each values, and there is agreement. I enjoyed reading all the input, some valuable insights. Hope you will keep us posted on how this plays out, and post some pics of a great hunt this fall. Congratulations.

by **msd1228** » 04 01, 2015 • [Post 32]

To be quite blunt, I'd say the compromise you came to is way, waaay, waaaaaaay more than reasonable. I'd say that if she has a problem with the solution you came up with then there are way bigger problems than just elk hunting. I think you have bent over backwards to satisfy everyone and nothing more could be asked of you. I feel for you.

by **Indian Summer** » 04 01, 2015 • [Post 33]

six wrote:We will be hunting 4 hours away from each other. I gave them some coordinates of where I saw elk and where I killed a bull last year. My group will be hunting the same unit in a new area. It's looks good on paper so we will see.

So you gave up the spot where you previously invested time and had confidence... and moved on to "we will see". Can I swear on this website? Holy shit. How will your relationship do if you go there and have a crappy hunt? What if you barely hear a bugle or have a sighting? Have you thought about that? I bet you won't be the happy hubby you are right now if that happens. I don't call that a compromise. I'd say she won that battle.

And with that I'll just throw it out there: I agree with msd "there are way bigger problems than just elk hunting".

by **Charina** » 04 01, 2015 • [Post 34]

Six, the trip and discussion of it is threatening a core value/issue for your wife. Something deep, and it isn’t “hunting”, and it isn’t that you have done anything to show you are not trustworthy. Rarely are we ever angry/upset for the reasons we think we are. No offense intended to women, ABQ_Chica in particular, but IMO, this is often more so true for women. Women naturally are more likely to be immersed in emotion and act on what they are feeling. “Worst 3 weeks of [] marriage” does not just happen regarding a facebook post without it triggering much deeper issues.

I have dozens of thoughts, but not enough information. Here’s one thing I keyed in on though: “upsets her that I am mad at her”. Trying to consider this from your wife’s perspective, she may be seeing this as a ‘damned if you do, damned if you don’t’ situation. Given that you were/are “mad” with her, it is very likely that her fears of rejection are triggered just like they were triggered with the FB post discovery.

Some background: One way we humans are like elk is that we have innate biological needs to be part of a ‘herd’. Or, in human terms: a clan. Perceived potential for rejection from the ‘clan’ triggers portions of the brain that are not nearly as evolved as the higher functioning of our conscious brain, an nowhere near as evolved as our society. The potential for rejection from those you have emotionally and physically attached to can make a person act very irrationally. Which one of us (even those that can’t admit it) hasn’t felt the deep unmistakable, even though incomprehensible, pangs of rejection over something – whether on the playground as youth, or the serious breakup of a relationship, or something trivial we can’t identify except to ask ourselves WTF am I upset about this? If you ever take an anger management class, this primitive brain function likely will be discussed as the primary driver of intense anger. Yet, anger isn’t the core feeling. It is an adaptive response, and rejection from the clan (by our spouse, ex, etc) is the driver. Pure speculation, I’m guessing your wife’s reaction is like this – only it is manifesting in self rejection as is so common in women, as compared to anger and outbursts as it is in men.

If fear of rejection/cheating is what is at the core, then hard as it might be, you can’t express “anger” at her for her feelings, and then hope to have a win/win solution. Express your feelings in terms of what you want, what you hope for, your desires for you both to be happy and find a win/win, but steer away from anything that speaks of rejection of her or her feelings (contempt, sarcasm, anger at her, resentment, outright criticism, labeling/name calling, etc) unless you want to trigger her fears of rejection and stay stuck in regards to this matter (and make resolution of future similar matters problematic).

Like said before, I’d recommend having a long conversation with her to fully discover what is going on. Highly suggest Gottman's Ten Conversations book referenced above. Ask lots of questions, rephrase, focus on really listening and try to truly understand where she’s coming from, how’s she’s feeling, and what is actually going on. This cannot ever work in an ‘argument’ style, or defensiveness will keep it stifled. She will need to feel you have her best interest at heart (so don’t do it unless you do). Sometimes just getting it all out there on the table can be cathartic enough to bring resolution. As long as you can stand to hear the truth, even if it’s not pretty, then you have nothing to lose. By understanding her position completely, you don’t have to agree with it, but at least then you understand. And you can’t do much to address the real issue if you don’t truly and fully understand what you are facing.

That’s my $0.02 anyway. Not sure it’s worth all that though.

by **Indian Summer** » 04 01, 2015 • [Post 35]

Charina, your 2 cents was worth $200. I love a person who can clearly communicate what they are thinking. Funny but after reading your post I completely removed my self from the subject at hand and said "Man, that person would make a great elk hunting partner"

The one word that stood out to me in Six's post was "mad" Not that I thought he meant it. Maybe just the quickest or easiest word to describe the situation.

The problem I see with that word is it is negative. People who are just plain mad are often not even interested in a solution to the cause of their anger. They're just plain mad. But if you were to use a word like "disappointed' or "hurt" it shows that you hoped for more and are still interested in making improvements. That puts a more positive spin on things. I don't really think you are mad Six. Just confused. Hoping for a solution and not finding a very good one is wearing on you. It may be time to put a few things on paper. Start with your goals. A happy marriage. A dead elk. That may sound funny but once they are in front of you ask yourself how can I have all of that? I wasn't the only one who asked if there is a reason why your wife can't go along with you. It's a great solution. But even if she can't it would be a great idea for her to know that you would love that and that you really believe that it would be the best solution. If there is in fact a reason she can't go look at it as another problem and see if you can solve that one first. If she can't afford to miss a week of work then by God find a way to come up with the money to get over that bump in the road.

Don't dwell on anything negative too much but it is important for her to know that taking away from you the things that you want or love is not a step in the right direction. It may cause resentment and two wrongs certainly won't make a right.

A different direction: Sometimes we have to make sacrifices. My guess is that your marriage is more important than the friendship with you buddy. Maybe it's time to open up to him and tell him about your problem. Be honest. Tell him you really need a solution and see what he has to say. If he's any kind of friend maybe he'll just blurt right out that he feels terrible and will tell his girlfriend she can't go this year. Be sure to tell him that you would be upset that he made a sacrifice of the time he gets to spend in the mountains with her and that you promise you'll fix things and it won't happen in the future. Is there anything he could possibly say to you that's worse than what your wife could say... or has already said? I doubt it. Maybe before you talk to him tell your wife what you plan to do and ask her if he has a fit and bails out on you will she promise to go with you. She may say screw that! Use a little reverse psychology like that and you may find her making sure that you have a partner so she doesn't have to spend days alone in some elk camp.

One thing I would suggest too, and something I try to make a habit of, is put yourself in the other person's shoes. Ask yourself what you would do if your friend approached you with this problem. Ask yourself what you would do if you were in your wife's position. Be honest with yourself about it too.

It is not good to keep your thoughts and feelings bottled up. It is even more important to be careful of how you let them out. When people keep things bottled up too long it's very common for things to boil over and come out wrong which does nothing but make the problem worse. So keep saying the words "positive spin" to yourself when you discuss it. Think before every sentence and ask yourself is this a step in the right direction or not. And remember... if you really do love each other then most likely nothing can come between that and eventually you will find a solution. Giving up the things you want though is not likely a solution or a step in the right direction. I think you know that and she needs to think about that too. Good luck my friend. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.

by **six** » 04 02, 2015 • [Post 36]

Really guys its not that bad. Although we have found a pretty good area the vehicle and ORV traffic sickened me. After I tagged out I spent the next day in camp recovering from the pack out. I counted 20+ vehicles driving by the camp and one in particular passed by 4 times. It started to make sense why the elk were where they were at. I am actually looking forward to my new adventure. My goal is to get away from people.

As for the wife. I have asked her to go. She has heard all the stories of how cold it can be. She is not a cold weather type person. She would do ok in September, but I can see bad things happening in November with the potential of 2 feet of snow and temps in the teens. She has agreed to go with next year when I take two 12 year olds on their first of many elk hunting adventures.

My wife and I have started working through this and are moving on. She grew up with 3 brothers so she is very strong willed. She had to be. I am a police officer so my world is black and white. Doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room. One things for sure I love my wife no matter what. Once I committed to the new plan and started my research. I started feeling a lot better.

by **under H2O hunter** » 04 02, 2015 • [Post 37]

six wrote:Really guys its not that bad. Although we have found a pretty good area the vehicle and ORV traffic sickened me. After I tagged out I spent the next day in camp recovering from the pack out. I counted 20+ vehicles driving by the camp and one in particular passed by 4 times. It started to make sense why the elk were where they were at. I am actually looking forward to my new adventure. My goal is to get away from people.

As for the wife. I have asked her to go. She has heard all the stories of how cold it can be. She is not a cold weather type person. She would do ok in September, but I can see bad things happening in November with the potential of 2 feet of snow and temps in the teens. She has agreed to go with next year when I take two 12 year olds on their first of many elk hunting adventures.

My wife and I have started working through this and are moving on. She grew up with 3 brothers so she is very strong willed. She had to be. I am a police officer so my world is black and white. Doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room. One things for sure I love my wife no matter what. Once I committed to the new plan and started my research. I started feeling a lot better.

First off let me say congratulations on figuring out a new plan.... Secondly why are you waiting to take the 12 year olds next year why not this year? Third as a cop I would hope that your life is beyond race and color... :lol:

Ok bad joke... But in all seriousness I thought cops where all about blue and red.... Ok another bad joke...

by **six** » 04 02, 2015 • [Post 38]

Thanks H2O made me laugh.

The boys are only 11 this fall. Next year they will be 12 and able to buy a youth tag. They just passed hunters safety last week with no problems.

by **under H2O hunter** » 04 02, 2015 • [Post 39]

six wrote:Thanks H2O made me laugh.

The boys are only 11 this fall. Next year they will be 12 and able to buy a youth tag. They just passed hunters safety last week with no problems.

Good glad to know you won't be going all Rodney King on me... I always think its a good thing to take kids a least one year before you put a weapon in their hand. Yes I know it makes our own hunts harder but a least they can get a look into how hard it is, how things don't always work out, It allows them to pay attention to you and how you do things because they don't have a weapon in hand and won't be thinking about the hunt as much as watching you and how you do things... Just a thought. I personally started taking my son when he was 8 years old. By the time he was 12 he was ready to go out on his own even though he couldn't by law. I won't tell you what he does now at 16 seeing how you're PO PO

by **Indian Summer** » 04 02, 2015 • [Post 40]

by **six** » 04 03, 2015 • [Post 41]

H2O

Good to know. I am seriously debating on whether I will buy a tag for myself or not. I'm leaning toward not just so I can dedicate 100% to the boys. I already put in tags for this year and the family has been planning our 2016 trip more than my group has been planning for 2015.

Side note I haven't always been the po po. Honestly I have been hunting since I was 8 years old. One night my mom and grandpa came out to the woods after dark in the old farm truck with a spot light to find me. I was "chasing" deer with my recurve.