Grizzly

[Raghorn_Reaper]

This may be the first time i hunted elk in grizzly country (sw montana). 1. How aggressive are they? And 2. Do you carry pepper spray or a sidearm?

Share you experiences if you have them please.

[WapitiTalk1]

Brown bears do not usually want anything to do with humans at all, and will go to great lengths to avoid our kind. This said, they are not nice when it comes to surprising them, particularly at close quarters. As they are the apex predator in the elkwoods, they will charge first when surprised at close range (albeit sometimes a false charge) and ask questions later (did I mention they don't like surprises). A sow with cubs is a timebomb waiting to explode if they feel their cubs are in any sort of danger. Due diligence is the order of business in brown bear country. Cook away from camp, burn food scented trash, don't camp in the middle of a huckleberry field, etc. By our very nature as bowhunters, we oftentimes have encounters with brown bears that are certainly not planned. We work the wind to prevent the indiginous critters from catching our scent, we employ stealth/silence as a tactic, and may very often use game trails that bears use. When hearing "movement" in the brush at close range, listen for grunts, moans, and cub bawls. If you suspect a bear is close, get tall... wave your bow.. and make your presence known immediately if you don't have a quick retreat route. A very loud "Hey, hey, hey" is usually enought to get a bear to move on. I normally carry a pistol in bear country (Taurus ultralite .44 MAG with 305 grain HSM bear loads). If ever grabbed by a brownie, my plan is to disrupt his nervous system with 6 large slugs as he/she drags me off by the leg Oh, almost forgot. If you're bivy or spike camp hunting and wake up to a big wet kiss in the middle of the night, don't kiss it back

[ishy]

There's little debate if you've read the numbers, spray is over and above more affective. I need to keep the date, but Bugle I think October of 2012 has a great article that looks at all the bear encounters that are recorded over the last 100 years. And the conclusion was even if you discharge your sidearm, and sometimes kill the bear the numbers say the bear has a good chance of still inflicting damage at a much higher rate than when bear spray is used.
I'm preaching to myself, because I am solo a lot with only a little stick flipper for protection in Grizzly country.

[Raghorn_Reaper]

Great write up!!!! I recently heard a story about a guy that drove into an area in mt with his vehicle and he wasn't supposed to and got killed by a grizzly. That got me thinking how aggressive they must be. The sidearm seems like a better bet than spray.

[Fridaythe13th]

Did someone have a post on here last fall, percentage wise spray is better the than a gun. Anybody remember that.
although I prefer a gun it does not expire.

[jmez]

Sidearm may seem like a better idea/option but in most cases it is nothing more than a false sense of security. Unless you shoot a lot, I don't mean once every few months, and have some special training in using a firearm in a highly charged situation it will likely be useless. A lot of internet Rambo's out there that really don't understand the brevity of a bad bear encounter.

I've never had a bad or close encounter. I have 2 clients that have been mauled and two friends that were charged. I've talked to them pretty extensively about their encounters, all while rifle hunting, and never was a shot fired. All experienced hunters, one being a lifelong guide in the mountains that was in his early 50's.

A simulated test to think about with your sidearm. Stand blindfolded facing away from target. On a random beep, you don't know when its coming you need to remove the blindfold, draw your weapon and turn around. Also on the beep a bear skull suspended from a clothesline will begin moving toward you at 30 mph from 50 yards. How many times do you think you could hit the skull until it got to you? I'd recommend reading Dave Grossman's books about the performance and reality of close quarters armed combat when you think your life is on the line. Pretty eye opening books.

You don't need to be afraid of Grizzly's but you need to respect them and play by their rules. Keep a clean camp, no food in your sleeping area, nothing with any odor in your sleeping area( toothpaste, chap stick, deodorant, etc). All food, trash, meat tainted clothes and packs go up in a tree, every time no one is in camp. Put your cooking area a minimum of 100 yards downwind from where you sleep. Don't leave anything out a bear will eat. If they are around they will likely visit your cooking area, don't give them a reason to come back. I disagree with Phantom on burning food scented trash. It increases airborne food odors, it makes your fire pit smell like food, it gives the bears something to eat and a reason to come back. Mine goes in a bag and up a tree with everything else. It is a PITA camping in Grizzly country.

Even if taking a gun, carry bear spray and know how to use it. If taking a gun leave little stuff at home along with the jacketed hollow points and other "manstopper" bullets. Carry the largest caliber you can accurately handle in a revolver. The spray and pray tactic with a semi auto isn't going to work. IMO, minimum caliber is a .44mag. Load it with the heaviest hard cast bullets you can find. If you find yourself in a position where you need to shoot one. Shoot them in the hump, it is bigger than the head, it sticks right up where you can see it, it moves far less than the head and it is part of the vertebrae. You hit it and will take them off their feet.

[Mukbowhunt]

Sage advice there!

[BrentLaBere]

Great post, jmez. I opt to carry spray and have been told by many that I should carry a gun. Im not a bad shot, but not good enough!
One issue others have brought up that is a good point, is spray is useless in a tent.....but at the point you find yourself with a bear in camp, you may be too late anyway. If you keep a clean camp it can certainly eliminate a lot of the problems. There are bears that dont play by those rules, however. Bears have held me out of areas I would LOVE to hunt. But I think the movie The Edge, although a great movie, has ruined me

[jmez]

It would be exceedingly rare for a bear to try to get into your tent while you were sleeping. Unless you have food something scented or a female in there they aren't going to walk into your camp, pull you out of a tent and eat you. If you have a female in there he'll pull her out and eat her, not you. I wouldn't worry about pepper spray in the tent. I could almost guarantee that waking to a bear in a dark tent a firearm would be useless as well, if you were able to gather yourself enough to shoot it you likely wouldn't do anything other than ventilate your tent a little. The other problem with firearms in tents is your neighbors, you get a bear in camp and three or four guys go to shooting in panic mode in the dark you may just kill your best friend, or vice versa.

If there were a bear getting into occupied tents he wouldn't, be around long. Game and fish would remove that bear. Go camp in Grizzly country in the snow and they could walk around your tent several times without anyone knowing they were there. Ask me how I know.

The other problem area no one has brought up yet is kill sites. You need to be very very careful here. It doesn't take them long to find them. If you shoot something at dark get it cut up an moved right then. Yes it is dark in bear country but if a bear comes on the kill site you most likely wont' be harmed, they want the elk, you leave they eat the elk. Coming in the next day and they have found it and claimed it then they are protecting what is theirs, they may well bite you over that. Get the meat a long ways from the carcass, a few hundred yards. Hang or place it in an open area that you can see from a long ways back. Do not put it on or within 100 yards of any type of trail. When you approach sit down and glass the area for a long time upwind of the meat before walking into the meat. It usually isn't a secret if a bear has been there. Talk and make noise when walking, you want them to know you are around, a kill site is no place to surprise a bear, they will bite you.

If you or someone else kills one you need to clean up very well and all of your clothes need to go back to the vehicle or up on a tree, don't continue to wear anything that smells like fresh meat.

[WapitiTalk1]

Some pearls there jmez; very, very good advice for all. I do carry a large pistol vs bear spray in brownie country.. just my choice. I've read the articles comparing the two (spray vs pistol) and most of them favor the spray for some pretty good reasons. I personally like the "boom" factor to perhaps get Yogi's attention before he/she gets too close. This older Fred Eichler VID is an example of a big boom jarring a sow's mind set just enough to stop the attack. Not so sure if spray would have helped in this situation. As mentioned, just my choice to carry my hand cannon vs spray. I've never had to deploy my gun in an actual bear attack (knock on wood) and hope to never have to.

[Rangerz]

Several years ago we were fishing in AK. We were out in the middle of the river on a sandbar, another couple was fishing on the bank. We heard them yell and looked over to see a bear about 15' from them. It stood up on it's hind legs. While they were yelling, I pulled out my gun and cracked of a few shots in the air. The bear didn't even flinch. He eventually wandered off without hurting anyone. Was surprised about how the noise didn't even faze him.

[jmez]

I've seen that Phantom, pretty impressive video. A few things to note in that video. When they come around the corner and those three cubs take off watch the guide vs everyone else. He immediately knows they have a problem. In the slower motion frame he is already drawing his pistol when mama breaks out of those trees, he knew it was coming. Had he not started drawing before he saw her I don't think he would have been in time.

Fred and everyone else panics and is falling out of the raft. One guy, the guide who has been there done that and understands exactly what is going on turned the bear. Fred Eichler who's an experienced hunter and been all over the world fell out of the boat. Had Fred been the one with the sidearm there would never have been a shot fired and mama would have bit someone. The other point, had she not turned with the warning shot he had a split second to fire another to break her down, would he have bee capable of that? While the video shows how a sidearm can be effective it also shows how in less than very experienced hands it would have been ineffective.

We all have to make our own choices and I respect yours. People just (not singling you out) just need to be realistic with themselves and their abilities when making those choices.

[WapitiTalk1]

I hear ya brother. Nice breakdown of the unfolding events in Fred's VID. I was hunting down a very steep finger ridge two years ago in ID. The other two guys in camp hunted together that day in another area and I hunted solo down this ridge. There were supposedly brownies in this area I hunt but I had not seen any sign or an actual bear in my previous hunts there. Got "way" down this steep finger ridge and sat down, late afternoon, to listen. I knew there were probably elk in one of the draws on either side (past bedding areas and some small wallow/water areas) so was waiting a bit to hear what I could hear before I either a. went after them or b. worked my way back up the 1/2 mile steep ridge late evening and did some locating. As I was sitting on my rump on a smallish, kinda flat saddle, I heard a very large animal working up through the thick HB brush down to my left, about 10 oclock, 60-70 yards away. I thought well, this is gonna be easy if it's a bull walking up to my position (hoping it wasn't a damn moose). Some very large sounds of a rotten log being torn apart, and, some unmistakeable "ooomfs"... assisted with my immediate decision to draw my hand cannon and start backing slowly up the ridge. Went back there a few days later and saw some very large bear tracks on the trail. Took a guy to this ID area last year and we actually saw a brownie less than 1/2 mile from that spot. It was moving up a steep HB side across from us, directly towards the game trail we were heading out on... We were some very noise hikers heading out of there with our headlamps that night

Caution, respect, due diligence around kill sites, and care around camp. Be carefull out there elknuts.. them big brown bears don't have a sense of humor.

[BrentLaBere]

Do you carry extra clothes and then change after hauling out your game? I wouldn't think washing them in a stream would be enough. When I was thinking of bears attacking people in their tents, I read a few stories around the yellowstone area. I can only assume these people didnt keep clean camps (tents). I like to think I take crare of stuff like this, but sometimes have that bar in my pack and get lazy at the end of the day. Something I would need to make sure of if venturing into Grizz area. Calling could also be an issue....

[jmez]

I'll have a couple change of clothes at the vehicle. Leave the dirty ones at the vehicle and put new ones on before going back in. I'd either hang the pack or at the least leave it in the kitchen/cooking area. Not good to have it near your tent for the very reason you mentioned. Like I said, camping in a grizzly area is a PITA.

First time I went the guys were very anal about all of this. One morning we were getting ready to leave and one of the guys went in the then for something and he comes out with a granola bar and Almond Joy candy bar. He went friggin postal about it. Chewed the guy good that left it in the tent. I thought to the point of going overboard. Three nights later waking up to grizzly tracks in the snow all through our kitchen and then around the tent about 4 times I looked at that a little differently. Doing dumb things can get you hurt.

Most all of the attacks that happen revolve around four events, female in camp, keeping a dirty camp, surprising a bear on a kill site, and getting near a sow with cubs. Last time I was up in the Thoroughfare there were three maulings. One was a girl pulled out of a tent and chewed on, one was a hunter that unknowingly ended up between a sow and her cubs and the other, two bowhunters had been keeping a dirty camp, they came in from hunting and a bear was eating their food and they tried to chase it off.

Not much you can do about the sow with cubs, that is just a dangerous bear. Most of the time there is human fault when someone gets mauled.

On those trips into the thoroughfare we were packing in with horses so yes had full changes of clothes along.

[Indian Summer]

Are you married? If so Just plug the word "wife" in everywhere it says grizzly and you'll know what to do.

[WapitiTalk1]

Are you married? If so Just plug the word "wife" in everywhere it says grizzly and you'll know what to do.

Not true mister... Mrs. Phantom was getting a bit uppity the other evening over the gear I've been ordering/receiving lately so I threatened her with a dose of bear spray to the snout. She bit the can cleanly in half and chucked it back at me and said something like "that's all you got sarge"? She's a good old Montana gal Wait.. what.. oh, thats not what you meant?

[ishy]

Biting cans reminded me of when I guided we had a bear go through a cash every year despite our best efforts to keep him out of the little out building. One year we found in the midst of his toys a can of that expanding insulating foam that he bit into. That would have been fun to watch him bite into only to have it explode!

[wawhitey]

Ive seen a few browns in alaska, pretty close up too, but where i live is just a plague of black bears. I know, 99% run when they see you, but ive easily got a couplw hundred living near me, so do the math. In the last 2 years i can think of 3 occasions where ive encountered black bears with bad additudes. One was following me down a creek but stayed far enough behind me not to get shot. I left before the situation escalated. One i surprised while shed hunting. I drew my .44 and was able to back out with no shots fired, and neither of us lost too much pride. The other snuck up on me while i was napping. I woke in time to pull my .44 (with the same 305gr hcfn rounds phantom uses) and turn the little guy into a pike of steaks and a rug, from 8ft. Blacks or browns, i wont go out into bear country without a sidearm. To hell with pepper spray.

[Raghorn_Reaper]

Wow. Yeah you need a sidearm. 8ft when you shot him? Man he just about had his lunch.

[Ghost]

Wa, wow thats scary, I dont give black bears another thought, gonna have to rethink that. The same situation exists in the Poconos in north east PA, some of the biggest black bears on the planet den right under peoples decks. Its just a matter of time till something really bad happens.

[dotman]

I always take my 44 and spray, I only plan to use one round and plan for it to be close. If you shoot your first shot at 20 yards your target is smaller and it is unlikely you'll get a second in. Hope to never test this theory.

Jmez has great advice.

[BrentLaBere]

Really good advice on here so far. Question for those of you that have hunted in brown bear territory. Did you learn from your own experiences? Or was there someone there to teach you the ropes. It seems the learning curve could be a steep/short one doing it yourself. I have a lot of areas I want to hunt and yogi is lurking near by. Just wondering if it would be beneficial to have a guide or go with someone experienced first.

[Elkduds]

When I fished the Brooks River in AK, huge brownies were everywhere. If a bear came on the bank behind you wanting your fish, you tossed the fish one way and went the other. Those bears were very accustomed to human interaction, and too lazy to catch their own fish.

[Raghorn_Reaper]

I may be on the slate for a solo hunt. I probably need to be extra careful. Its one thing if you have a couple guys. I always thought i could plunge my knife into the bears chest as he attacked but i think i am severely underestimating the situation. Spray or .44 for sure!

[Clawsar]

I'm new to hunting and archery, but I've been in Montana for about a decade and was in search and rescue for over 3 of those years. You could carry a gun if you wanted, but EVERYONE knew to carry bear spray. Bring a gun if you want, I sometimes do, but always take your spray

[POk3s]

Well, you guys have me rethinking northwest wyoming by myself. I was all but set in putting in for a tag up there, but I'll be at it solo. Already figured backpacking into there by myself wasn't a very good idea, but is camping in a camper and hiking in/out in the dark a much better choice....not so sure.

Even if I don't draw the tag I'm spending a whole lot of time up there scouting and hunting general units

[WapitiTalk1]

OK, it's time to divulge my secret for dealing with the "big three" predators in the mountain states. First carry a predator emergency kit.... it contains a , carry a stick, a stick, a small bag of catnip, and a picnic basket. When you see a wolf too close, throw the stick (he'll always run to get it), then, whistle loudly and call "come here boy, come on, here boy"... when he brings the stick back and drops it by your feet, bonk him in the head. When you see a big cat dangerously close, scratch your finger on a log and call "kitty, kitty, kitty"... when he gets really close he'll become suspicious (they're pretty smart) so you then throw the little bag of catnip on the ground by his feet; he'll always start rolling around and playing with it... when he does this, bonk him on the head. When you come too close to or heaven forbid, startle a brown bear, throw the picnic basket on the ground in front of you. When the bear lifts the red tablecloth off the picnic basket to see what's inside, bonk him in the head.

[wawhitey]

Sorry phantom. Back to the drawing board.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00987747

[WapitiTalk1]

Sorry phantom. Back to the drawing board.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00987747

Crap.. glad I didn't try the catnip on a coug

[wawhitey]

I looked it up cause you made a light go off in my head. Bulk catnip, trailcam in video mode.... oh well. Glad i didnt get on amazon and order 50 lbs of catnip. Youll just have to stick with plan b, your taurus .44

[POk3s]

hahahaha!

[jmez]

I wouldn't cancel a trip over it. Keep a little perspective. You have a far greater chance of being struck by lightning than you do of being harmed by a grizzly bear.

[huntfishtrap247]

I agree with jmez,no need to cancel a trip over it. They just need to be respected and you need to be aware of them.

[Kleinpm]

I have yet to run into a Grizzly while hunting, Montana or Wyoming. During archery season, most years, the bears are still higher than I am. During rifle season I think its just a matter of time. Too many gut piles, too many bears.

FWIW, every day I hunt I am in Grizzly country and I hunt solo 99% of the time. I carry spray but no sidearm, let my wife know where I am going to be, and use common sense.

Patrick

[MountainmanZ]

I have encountered a grizzly coming through the trees at full speed while going in to recover the rest of a bull here in Wyoming, and I will forever more recommend spray over a sidearm. They're FAST.