Bugling Bulls-Is A Bugle Just A Bugle?

[ElkNut1]

For those who'd like to hear the sounds of these bulls before they read the answer go ahead & do so before reading the following paragraphs, the answer is in them! There are several different bulls here basically wanting the same thing, what is it? (grin) It's a sound many have heard countless times!


The reason for this Thread is to share some features of our New App! It's not just elk sounds, it's a selective sound one at a time then an explanation of what the elk are conveying to you as a caller or to other elk they are communicating with, this is important as in many cases we hear elk in the distant but cannot see them. Having the ability to understand an Elk's language will give you the upper hand in breaking that language barrier! (grin) You will find that specific bugles send a specific message to the elk! Bulls will convey their thoughts or messages to other elk by their changes of intensity & cadence just as people do. Once you establish these changes in your memory banks it's easily brought up in your mind as the sounds are heard in the elkwoods. Identifying these specific messages in the field will now prepare you as to what to do next! In the past you may have fumbled around searching for the right sound or just any sound in hopes that it will work. This App will help take the guess work out of it for the most part putting the odds in your favor towards a close encounter!

This example of these bugling bulls is a great one to start with. Most of us have heard these bugles countless times but did you know what they meant? These are very commonly used in late Aug - Sept - Oct. by bulls as cows become their main interest. This sound is one bulls will use when they've heard cows nearby. They are giving these cows a direction to head as the bulls try their best to call them their way! Many have heard this bugle if they've cow called & received a response from a bull during their hunts. It's also a fairly easy bugle to imitate!


ElkNut1

[msd1228]

Classic bulls calling cows bugle! My absolute favorite bugle to use in the elk woods when the action is heavy! Also an absolute essential element in any breeding sequences that I do too. This year Trav and I were calling to a big herd bull that we knew was living down in a nasty hole. We couldn't get him to answer for love nor money, but we knew he was there. We had a green elk hunter with us that day and we were trying our damndest to show him some action. We ran the usual gambit of calls - cow talk, lost cow, location bugles, etc....nothing. We moved in a bit closer to where we figured he was and separated by about 25 yards. I started hammering some really whiny, agitated cow sounds, loud estrus screams, and smashing and stomping all the brush around me (think of the "Threat" level 3 type stuff - this cow is NOT happy!). Trav was 25 yards away and started stomping around in a small circle and began hammering the bull calling cows bugle with rapid chuckles on the end. The green guy that was with us was looking at us like we had 3 heads haha. We weren't more than 1 a minute to a minute and a half into the sequence when that big boy couldn't take anymore and began to make those deep, bass filled herd bull bugles. We weren't able to seal the deal on him that day, but a newbie sure got a good lesson in the effectiveness of creative calling.

The most telling characteristic of this bugle, in my opinion, is the distinct high note POP at the end (most times). If you break the bugle down you can hear the lip bawl start low, rapidly gain speed and volume, and finish with a high note POP. As you can tell from the clip Paul posted, this bugle usually isn't very long in duration - it ramps up fast and finishes hard! Get inside of 60 yards of a herd bull with a few cows and rip one of these bugles at him - hold on to your hat though because the action is gonna happen FAST!

[Wapiti]

Yes classic bull calling cows bugle ! You beat me to it Shane. I was busy out ice fishing for the day and getting my butt handed to me from my wife ! She always catch's more fish than me for some reason.

I believe we did some bull calling cow bugles in our Reaper/Phantom demo !!

You can really hear the forceful emotion that these bulls are showing. To me they are demanding attention and will not take NO for an answer !!

Those are some great sounds Paul ! You'll be making some of your own sounds on your All Purpose and All Purpose Plus reeds very soon !! We are looking forward to hearing them along with the new Bugle tube !! Your going to have a deadly combo there !!

Trav

[ElkNut1]

Good evaluation guys, spot on guys! The Breeding Sequence is our # 1 elk killer when the bulls are rutting good like the clip demonstrates in their intensified bugles,

Note the intensity of those bulls bugles, you can tell these bulls are peaking hard, their bugles show lots of intensity/urgency as their excitement flows freely for the cow they know is nearby. These same bulls can show interest in cows in early Sept with bugles no where near the intensity shown in the clip. Their intensity level would be half or less what's heard here yet they are still calling to a cow! Once in the elkwoods enough these times & sounds are easily identified. The same goes with the other various bugles bulls use to convey a message!

Can't wait for the reeds, I believe they'll be tweaked just right! (grin)

ElkNut1

[Elkoholic87]

I hear a lot of different bulls using the lip bawl. It sounds like these bulls are trying to lure some of the harem away from the herd bull. Am I right or on the right track, ElkNut? This is the same response I used to your Facebook post.

[ElkNut1]

Thanks for posting here! I did see your F/B comment but was too busy to reply at the time.

You are correct that Lip Bawls are also directed towards the cows. Lip Bawls by bulls can depict urgency or excitement & can happen under a variety of situations. A Lip Bawl may be used with a mild intensity or a very coarse intensity depending on the use of it. Some bulls with cows may feel threatened by an intruder bull, as this intruder bugles his way closer to a harem, thus the herd bull can use a Lip Bawl to gather the group up & push them out and away from this intruder bull, this Lip Bawl would show urgency.! Other situations you will see bulls do their best to stay back out of harms way from the herd bull & try to call his cows from him at a distance that exceeds 100 yards in many cases. -- In a nutshell most Lip Bawls are used by Bulls when it involves cows.

There are times when a challenge is issued by one bull from another, at this time they can use the growliest throaty Lip Bawls that are much more coarse than they would use when managing their herd or calling a stray to the group. The intensity at those times can be off the charts as well as other sounds as pants & grunts are included! (grin) It can make the hair on the back of your neck stand up!

ElkNut1

[Elkoholic87]

Just out of curiosity, if I'm within 50-75 yards of a herd bull with his harem, does a challenge bugle or a lip bawl give me the best opportunity for confrontation? Or am I already close enough to where he feels threatened and decides to try and fight me off?

[msd1228]

Just out of curiosity, if I'm within 50-75 yards of a herd bull with his harem, does a challenge bugle or a lip bawl give me the best opportunity for confrontation? Or am I already close enough to where he feels threatened and decides to try and fight me off?

There really isn't a definite answer to the question since ever bull is different, and how each bull will react will depend entirely on his state of mind at the time. What we do know is that
1) Herd bulls are hard to kill
2) The best way to kill herd bulls is with bull sounds (typically - not a rule)
3) A bull calling cows bugle or a challenge bugle from 50-75 yards WILL elicit a response

The only thing you can absolutely bank on is that if you do either a BCC bugle or a challenge bugle from that close in is that the bull WILL react - its as close to a sure thing as you are going to get in the elk woods. That being said, there is no guarantee as to HOW he will react - he is either going to round up his cows and get outta dodge or he is gonna run you right over. This is where you really need to try and gauge the atmosphere within the herd - if the bull doesn't seem particularly agitated or aggressive then I might be a bit hesitant to jump down his throat, but if the bull is losing his mind and clearly frustrated then I'm going to hammer him with hard bugles. Even then, there is no guarantee that he is going to react the way you want him to. Now, all that being said, does challenging a herd bull or acting as if you are going to take his cows give you the best chance of killing that bull when you are inside of 75 yards? In my opinion, yes it does. All you can do is play the odds - sometimes you'll strike out and sometimes you'll knock it out of the park.

[ElkNut1]

As Shane mentions the variables here there is nothing written in stone! What we do is "read the situation" -- Just because a bull has cows does not mean he's in an aggressive nature! There needs to be a hot cow in the harem. This means a cow nearing estrus or in estrus, at this time the herd bull will become both vocal & defensive if another bull shows on the scene interested in his hot cow. If there's no getting closer without calling for whatever reason & you are in that 75 yard or under range good things can happen by using a coarse bugle trying to call his cows away, do some stomping & thrashing/raking as this is an attempt to sway his cows to come over to him as a possible breeder bull. If the bull doesn't show in a heart beat I'll add some pants, glunks & another short coarse bugle. This generally does it! (grin) But it's not out of the question to go to level 2 & 3 of The Threat as a backup if you get into a screaming match & he holds tight after 60 seconds of persuasion! No matter the method used you need a good setup here where the bull MUST come your way because he cannot see you the intruder until he's within your bowrange.

Now if you are in that same 75 yard range & there's no way to slip in unannounced for the kill & there is no hot cow then you need to play the "curiosity card" for better odds in your favor. Not all bulls will turn aggressive just because they have cows with them. Many are laid back & will allow other bulls to mingle within the group when nothing is hot no matter the date of Sept! I like getting as close as possible here & give a few very mild or soft cow calls, wait 30 seconds or so & start raking/tickling tree branches loud enough so the real bull can hear this. Play it up with a bit of back & forth cow sounds & this raking, no need to bugle at all here you're painting a solid picture in the bulls mind as to what's going on. I find that the herd bull will get very curious at times & come to investigate who this bull & cow is? The downside is a cow or unwanted elk may show first but it's still a ton of fun! (grin)

Here are a couple of photos where the top method was used to a tee at about the 50yd-70yd distance from the herd with good cover between us for the setup. The lower photo is a bull that I used the 2nd method on, he only bugled twice in over an hour from his bed, we knew he had a couple of cows but because of the lack of vocalness we knew nothing was nearing estrus so the 2nd method was used. It took us quite awhile to get the right position, we slipped in as silent as possible in the thick timber then picked a very good setup & the rest is history! (grin)

p.s.-- Notice I never used a lip bawl in either situation, calling is more right sound right time. I prefer to let the bull do as much talking as possible once location is received, it's at this time I listen to his sounds whatever they are so I know what message he is sending! It's much more important to understand the elk you're after than worrying how to make all the sounds elk can make!

ElkNut1

[msd1228]

I like getting as close as possible here & give a few very mild or soft cow calls, wait 30 seconds or so & start raking/tickling tree branches loud enough so the real bull can hear this. Play it up with a bit of back & forth cow sounds & this raking, no need to bugle at all here you're painting a solid picture in the bulls mind as to what's going on. I find that the herd bull will get very curious at times & come to investigate who this bull & cow is? The downside is a cow or unwanted elk may show first but it's still a ton of fun! (grin)

I love the subtlety of this approach. No bull vocalizations involved, yet there is no question that a bull is in the area (in the herd bull's mind). Raking has been a successful tactic for a lot of the elknutters here over the years - another solid tool for the toolbox.

[Wapiti]

Paul Jr That is a fantastic shot on that bull !! I love the traditional gear !! Great work.

PS The smiles say it all !!

Trav