Following through on my threat - stupid question!

by **Tigger** » 02 14, 2015 • [Post 1]

In another thread, I warned you guys that I was gonna start asking stupid questions.....

I am an experienced hunter, but new to the archery game. I am looking at broadheads for my upcoming elk hunt and have seen good recommendations about Slick Tricks, Thunderheads, Stinger Buzzcuts, Trocars, etc. Most, if not all of these, are some type of thin razor blade somehow attached to the shaft of the broadhead. They just don't seem strong enough to bounce of elk bones and hold up to me! I looked at G5 Montecs and they look way stronger. Am I nuts? Wait, don't answer that. Do those really do the job if they hit a rib bone? They look so flimsy and breakable. The only downside I can think of for the Montecs is they are thicker, thus more drag and less penetration?

by **elk.addict** » 02 14, 2015 • [Post 2]

A lot of folks use Montecs and swear by them, others swear they're fragile - just depends who you ask. I shot a bear with one, the tip broke off. It killed the bear so I guess it did it's job. Still, it scared me away from them.
I can also comment on Slick Tricks since I've used them extensively (magnums). They're pretty tough and fly really good, though the blades usually are pretty beat up after the shot. I've never lost an animal with them though. A lot of folks prefer cut on contact for good reason. I however, like a chisel point tip. Just seems they would hold up better on bone, imo. I went back the good ol' Muzzy MX4. Takes a little tuning to get them shooting good, but I have never used a tougher broadheads.

Again, with any broadhead, you'll get a different point of view from just about everyone. There's 2 out there that I flat out don't trust, that surprisingly, at lot of folks like: G5 Striker - killed 2 elk with them (to my surprise). Both times I lost blades and the ferrule cracked. The other is the Shuttle T. Overall the broadhead seemed robust, but the blades tend to spall. They looked serrated even after shooting into a foam target a half dozen times. I wonder though if I just got a bad batch, a lot of people swear by them.

Good luck

by **Wapiti** » 02 14, 2015 • [Post 3]

I prefer Shuttle T's as well but the truth is you need to shoot an elk in the proper spot as they are one of the toughest animals out there !!

Fixed blades for big animals ! At least for me !! Straight up the leg and you'll see how big of a target you have.

Hope this helps.

by **Toby** » 02 15, 2015 • [Post 4]

I would choose something other than a Montecs , although I like their structure, the materials seem brittle.

If you like the design, take a look at VPA's or Wensel Woodsmns. I like the 175 grains models due to their length to width ratio. But, if you are shooting enough ft. Lbs. with your outfit it really doesn't matter. Any of the weights will work fine.

by **ishy** » 02 15, 2015 • [Post 5]

7th grade shop teacher use to pond the saying,"no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid mistakes from not asking the stupid question".
My $.02, we have all switched to stingers. They are simple, fly great, easy to sharpen, penetrate better than anything and give you two holes every time you don't hit scapula and sometimes do even if you hit scapula. All heads with take a beating between bones and what ever is beyond the target. Magnus will have a no question return policy. We send all sorts of parts back and get new heads returned in a timely manner each time.

by **msd1228** » 02 15, 2015 • [Post 6]

Whether or not we like to admit it, we've all had a mishap or 2 in the woods - I'll tell you about 2 of mine. 1) I shot a huge mule buck dead in the shoulder blade about 8 years ago now. He was a smasher of a buck (33" wide) and was heavily muscled. Shot was 46 yards. I was using Magnus Stingers are the time (same as the buzzcut but without the serrated edge). The arrow smashed right through that shoulder, through all of the vitals, and the head was just poking out of the OPPOSITE shoulder blade. Deer went 15 yards and fell over dead. Were the blades toast? Yeah...but man, that blade smashed though 2 layers of the hardest bone going. Despite the smashed blades, the head more than did its job.

2) This was a very bad shot that had a good outcome. Big cow elk, 47 yards quartering away. I was holding behind the last rib to slip the arrow right up to the off shoulder and she whirled around like a rocket at the drop of my bowstring. When she swung around her rear end ended up right in the arrow's path and it struck her right in the hind quarter angling towards the front half of her body. I was using a Slick Trick 125gr standard at this time. That head absolutely obliterated her left hip socket and leg bone. Despite the awful shot, she only went 80 yards and fell over dead. The damage that head did was utterly mind boggling. Not only that, but the blades weren't even broken. Edges were obviously pretty marred, but the blades and ferrule completely held together. That was the day I determined that there was no reason for me to bother trying other heads - there was no way I was going to find something that flew and performed better than that. Been using em ever since, and have never had so much as a hint of problem.

So those are my 2 stories of bad shots from over the years - thankfully both turned out OK, undoubtedly due to the quality of the heads I was using. Heavy arrow and a good head = a little bit of an insurance policy. The thing to always remember is that any head will do the job on a perfectly placed shot - ANY HEAD. What separates the OK heads from the GREAT heads is how they perform on the not so good shots, and sooner or later EVERYONE will have one of those.

by **timberland** » 02 17, 2015 • [Post 7]

As far as Montecs go I guess I have pretty reliable data from one animal, a cow I shot last year 5 times. First shot pass through last rib 35 yds. broadhead intact and perfect. Second shot entered inside left ham and lodged into right shoulder. Broadhead intact and seemed like I had just sharpened it. Third shot 25 yds crushed shoulder between elbow and shoulder blade. Broadhead broke off arrow at threads and was noticeably dulled. But it did not just "break" the bone. It CRUSHED it! there was bone meal in the meat. This was not from the animal running on it because she only went another 20 yds, never using that leg and never leaving my sight. 4th and 5th shots were quartering away. not pass throughs but complete penetration through the chest cavity and lodging in the heavy meat and bone in the front of the chest. Both broadheads were shootable and plenty sharp.

In all that mess my broadheads performed better than any replaceable blade I have shot, and I have shot a lot. No brands named because most or all will kill, but on one bull I shot the boadhead passed through with one of 4 blades intact. I've slipped or broke blades on 4 brands of replaceable blades on deer and elk.

by **Ghost** » 02 17, 2015 • [Post 8]

Ill jump in on this thread, whats everyone opinion on 3 blade Rages for elk?

by **msd1228** » 02 17, 2015 • [Post 9]

Ghost wrote:Ill jump in on this thread, whats everyone opinion on 3 blade Rages for elk?

I wouldn't even entertain the thought, personally. I've seen enough disasters and been on too many blood trails from people using Rages. Again, if you have a perfect shot then it will kill an elk every time, but even graze a piece of bone with a Rage and see what happens. I even set up a test for my buddy who wouldn't listen to me after I had shot a big bear. We set up the skinned bear carcass at 15 yards (keep in mind that if the skin was still on it would add even more resistance) and I had him shoot the shoulder blade to prove that he was hooped if he had a less than perfect shot. He swore up and down he was gonna blast right through. Well, at 15 yards and at 70 pounds draw his arrow penetrated a whopping 1" - it didn't even get past past the base of the ferrule. An elk shoulder is considerably more rugged than a bear shoulder. Like I said, it doesn't matter what you use on a perfect shot - a field tip will kill an elk, but I believe people would be well served to prepare for the worst case scenario. 95% of people always scoff at that thinking and give me the old "well I never make a shot that bad"...well, keep dreaming because sooner or later it WILL happen to you, and you'll be really glad if you are shooting gear than can handle bad situations. We are all great (well, those of us who practice lol) at shooting targets - I was a hardcore competitive shooter for years - but the thing is that targets don't walk, turn, duck, or hear. Animals move. Animals can move A LOT even at 20 yards - it is those variables that can turn an otherwise great shot into a long evening.

by **Ghost** » 02 17, 2015 • [Post 10]

Most broadheads wont penetrate the shoulder on a deer much less an elk and no experienced bow hunter in their right mind would shoot for the shoulder, sure it happens, but Ive had deer shoulders stop a 100gr thunderhead, but everyone I know avoids the shoulder like the plague. The last 20 deer or so Ive shot with a bow were with rages, Ive been really impressed with the penetration/damage on deer.

by **msd1228** » 02 17, 2015 • [Post 11]

Ghost wrote:Most broadheads wont penetrate the shoulder on a deer much less an elk and no experienced bow hunter in their right mind would shoot for the shoulder, sure it happens, but Ive had deer shoulders stop a 100gr thunderhead, but everyone I know avoids the shoulder like the plague.

You just confirmed the exact point I made in my last post. Of course nobody aims for the shoulder, but one hell of a lot of shoulders get hit every year. The Rage has about a 0.0001% chance of getting through, while a head like a Slick Trick or a G5 has a damn good chance of getting through. A COC head out of a heavy arrow/poundage setup will pound through the shoulder unless you hit the vertical ridge that separates the 2 muscle groups. I'm not saying you are going to get a pass through, but if you get 6" of penetration you are going to have a dead elk. Just look at this thread about myself and other attesting to such with our personal experiences.That was the entire point of my previous post - you are better off to rig your setup for the worst case scenario. You can use whatever you like, but I'd suggest spending some time on bowsite reading about people's experiences with Rages on elk.

by **Wapiti** » 02 17, 2015 • [Post 12]

I 100% Agree with msd1228 !! Small game like pigs and Turkey sure a rage will do fine. But call me old school or whatever I have always believe we owe it to our animals that we are hunting to use matching equipment. For me it's a fixed blade design. I personally shoot Shuttle "T"s. They fly great and penetrate even better.

I think it's all the advertising on the hunting channels that fool a lot of hunters into trying them !! These advertiser's have all kinds of money to advertise with and we all know advertising sells product !! Don't be fooled these guys could care less what you are shooting as long as it's there product !!

I had a buddy go hunting in the Yukon and he asked what he should shoot for Moose so I gave him my opinion. Well he was watching the hunting channel and he decided to try the Rage because they LOOKED good on the TV !! Long story short he shot a moose alright !!!!!!! BUT he never found him !!! What a waste of a magnificent animal !!

He got back and was scared to talk to me. But I heard it through the grapevine anyways !!!

SO there's my opinion but why even chance shooting with an expandable on an elk or moose. Just doesn't make sense to me !!

Trav

by **Ghost** » 02 17, 2015 • [Post 13]

while a head like a Slick Trick or a G5 has a damn good chance of getting through

Not to get into a pissing contest, but I completely disagree with that statement, Ive shot more deer than most 5 people and Ive seen bullets stopped by a deers shoulder much less a broadhead on an elks, hitting the shoulder with any broadhead is a recipe for disaster.

Ive read countless stories either way about Rages, some guys swear by them, other swear at them. I havent seen an thread on here about them, so I figured Id get this party started

by **msd1228** » 02 17, 2015 • [Post 14]

That's totally fine, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. I just know that I've absolutely decimated the shoulder bones of deer, bear, and elk, as well as that super poor shot I mentioned above that hit a ham and obliterated the hip/pelvis bones (which are one hell of a lot heavier than the flat of a shoulder blade). On top of the other posted above who commented about crushing the shoulder of an elk he shot. Like I said, nobody is going to try to hit the shoulder, the vertebrae, or any other bone, but it happens. If it hits the vertical ridge of the shoulder that separates front and back muscle groups then you aren't getting through no matter what you use, but if you strike the flat part of the blade then a good setup is going through. If/when an iffy shot happens I want to be running a setup that is going through whatever it hits, which for me is a 500gr slick trick tipped arrow shot at 72lbs. I have no doubt this setup gives me more leeway than what other people are shooting and likely accounts for the bone destruction I've witnessed, but that's OK because I've never lost an animal that I had a bad hit on (yet, knock on wood!). That's the whole idea.

by **under H2O hunter** » 02 17, 2015 • [Post 15]

Ok I was trying to stay away from this subject but damn it. I am bored so why the hell not.

STAY AWAY FROM MECHANICAL BROADHEADS. At least for elk and large boned animals. I have pictures somewhere that I want to post from an elk a couple years ago that was hit with a "Swacker" Broadhead. The wound channel was about 18 inches long, the arrow stayed in the elk and the resulting bloodtrail was minimal for the last 200 or so yards. Here is my take on why you should stay away from broad heads like Rage and Swacker and so on. First off any moving part can and will eventually fail. The broad head opens in mid flight you are for sure not going to hit where you intend to. Second, if you hit large bone the blades on this type of broad heads are really thin and they do break and bend really easily. Third, if your arrow stays in the animal like it did on our elk a couple years ago you end up plugging up the hole and the quick clotting action of an elk can easily cause your blood trail to peter out resulting in an animal that may not be found. In our particular case we were fortunate that my son spotted a single drop of blood that kept us on the trail and we eventually located the bull 450 yards from where it was shot.

Yes do these type of broad heads work? Of course they do. But all things need to happen properly for them to do so. Most of the shows where they are advertising the use of these heads the animals are always broadside and they are hoping not to hit a rib and they are counting on a pass through. Reality has proven that not all shots are perfect. You clip a branch you don't see or the animal jumps the string. You see what I am getting at. Use a fixed blade broad head and you won't need to worry about your broad head opening up in flight or if it clips a branch. If your arrow doesn't pass all the way through and stays in the animal then you have a triangle wound that allows blood to flow out of the opening rather then a straight plain that can seal back up or be blocked by the arrow not falling out.

Stay with a fixed blade with sharp blades and you will do just fine. There are plenty of test that have been done on both mechanical and fix blades to allow you to make an educated pick on which ones to use. Shuttle T's, Thunderhead, Muzzy, Montec, ext ext ext ext.... Good luck and remember to practice with your broad heads. Spend the extra money to do so will save you a ton of grief in the long run.

by **ElkNut1** » 02 17, 2015 • [Post 16]

Lots of very good broadheads out there today. Most are more than adequate to dispatch elk sized critters cleanly & humanely if we do our part. We've taken countless elk over the years & to date I've not seen a broadhead fail. I've seen plenty of shooters including myself fail to do our part but the broadhead did the job it was intended for! Put the head where the animal lives & you'll have plenty of photos to share! (grin) These days we've been shooting 100 grain Viper Tricks by Slick Trick. Seems to be a great head! We're shooting them again this year!

ElkNut1

by **swmoelk** » 02 17, 2015 • [Post 17]

I can't speak for elk bone but I put a carbon steel montec into a twisted old cedar this summer. It took 15 minutes with pliers to get it out but it was fine. I will say the montecs do need some sharpening,but with a good stone my 12 yo daughter could put an edge on them. I feel they're very sturdy and fly great from my bow out to 70 yards. I feel more confident knowing there's nothing to come loose or fall out of them. Just my own personal experience.

by **Ghost** » 02 17, 2015 • [Post 18]

Well now you guys went and done it, now I have to check out them there slick tricks :ugeek:

by **Tigger** » 02 18, 2015 • [Post 19]

First of all, thanks everyone for taking the time to answer. I am convinced not to use mechanicals.
Next stupid question, how heavy? I see a lot of talk of 100gr to 125 gr. I am shooting a Matthews Z7 at 62 lbs.

by **msd1228** » 02 18, 2015 • [Post 20]

Tigger wrote:First of all, thanks everyone for taking the time to answer. I am convinced not to use mechanicals.
Next stupid question, how heavy? I see a lot of talk of 100gr to 125 gr. I am shooting a Matthews Z7 at 62 lbs.

Really depends on the spine/length of your arrows, etc. to be honest. Heavy heads will soften a stiff spine, etc, shorter arrows = stiffer dynamic spine, and vise versa. I shoot a 29.5" .300 spine Easton Axis and run a 125gr head - works perfectly for my setup. At 62 pounds I would venture to guess that you are shooting something that would be equivalent to a .400 spine, unless you have crazy long arms, and 100gr would likely be money. Likewise, if you wanted a heavier arrow you could probably also use a .340 spine equivalent with a heavier head on it.I would suggest checking out the Easton Spine Chart (just google Easton Arrow Spine Chart) - just plug in your information and it will tell you what the optimal arrow specs for your setup will be.

by **Tigger** » 02 18, 2015 • [Post 21]

Hey, could you put that in English please? Holy Moly, I have a lot to learn. I am 5'10" tall with regular arms (my knuckles don't drag!).

I will get the specs on my setup somehow. Hey, my arrows are kind of a dark charcoal color, does that help at all?

by **msd1228** » 02 18, 2015 • [Post 22]

There should be numbers written on the shaft of your arrow, I.e. the name of the manufacturer, the model, and the spine. The spine will be listed as a number - 300, 340, 400, for example. What is your draw length, arrow length (measured from the base of the nock groove (the spot your string rests against when the arrow is clipped on) to the end of the arrow/insert) and spine? Single or dual cam bow? How long are your fletches? With all of that info we can determine what weight of head you should be running.

by **Tigger** » 02 19, 2015 • [Post 23]

Okay, lets see if I can get this right. They are Beman ICS Bowhunter Arrows 400, 8.4 gpi carbon C2 Made in the USA. I have a 28" draw length on a Matthews Z7 Extreme at 62-63 lbs. I don't know what you mean by spine??? hopefully, that is in the above info. The arrow from the base of the nock groove to the end of the arrow (the start of the broadhead) is 28.25 inches. The current broadhead is 1" long for a total length from the base of the nock of 29.25 inches. The fletches are 2" long and 2 of them are orange and 1 is green. my birthday is in September...wait, you didn't need that. Man, I had no idea it was this complicated!

Okay, my confusion level just went up. I just found the package for what I had been using for a broadhead. This particular broadhead has shot 1 deer out of this bow, a whitetail doe fawn (my brother shot it, not me...long story). Hit in the ribs, maybe a little far back (there aint a lot of room for error on a doe fawn). Fawn went 75 yards and laid down. 6 hours later, we jumped it and it took off. Came back the next morning and found it another 100 yards away. Blood trail was okay at best. We could follow it, but glad there was snow and it wasn't a great blood trail. So I was a little disappointed in the broadheads performance. We aren't talking a bull elk here, we are talking a doe fawn and it took hours to die and the bloodtrail was only okay. Entry wound was small, exit wound was decent (complete pass through). Arrow looks brand new.

That experience made me think that I needed a better broadhead for the elk hunt. Maybe I have mistakenly thought that the wounds would have been much more like a gun wound (lots of experience with those). What broadheads have been highly recommended in my research? Well Thunderheads, Shuttle TLocks, Slick Tricks, and Stinger Buzzcuts have gotten the most endorsements. Remember I just said I found the package? They are Slick Trick 100 Standard 4 blade.

So maybe I just stick with these? The exit whole was pretty decent I guess.

Signed,
Confused in Minnesota

by **msd1228** » 02 19, 2015 • [Post 24]

Thanks for the info Tigger - that is exactly what we needed.

Just so there is no confusion, your arrow BRAND is Beman, the MODEL is the ICS Bowhunter, and the SPINE is 400. The spine of the arrow is a measure of its stiffness - an arrow bends back and forth like a SIN curve when it leaves your bow, so you need to match the spine of the arrow with the draw length, arrow length, tip weight, etc., to optimize this. You are always better off to err on the side of too stiff of a spine than too soft, especially if running a carbon arrow, because arrows with too soft of a spine risk shattering upon release much the same way a damaged arrow does. I looked up your arrow on the Beman arrow chart (you can just google "beman arrow spine chart") and a 100gr point is optimum for your setup - I figured it would be.

Based off the story you posted about the broadhead it is clear that it was the fault of the shooter and not the broadhead- sounds like a classic gut/paunch shot. No animal, especially a deer, will survive more than a few seconds with a properly placed arrow (unless you just barely clip the top of the lungs, maybe). Also keep in mind that with an arrow it is much easier for fat/gut tissue to plug the entry and exit holes on sub-par shots - you don't get those massive exit holes like you would with a bullet (it happens sometimes, but its not the norm). If you had a bloodtrail that you would consider "okay" on what was pretty clearly a gut shot then I'd say the broadhead did its job - many times you will be lucky to get any blood at all on this type of shot because the hole will get plugged, as described above. On a well placed shot you will have much better results. Also remember that the higher up the body you hit with an arrow the longer it'll usually take to get the blood trail going - the body cavity will take time to fill up to the point blood starts spilling out. You won't usually get the massive hemorrhaging you do with a bullet (again, sometimes you will, but not normally).

Slick Trick 4 blade standard is pretty much as good as it gets, but any offering from Magnus, Slick Trick, the solid heads from G5, Muzzy, etc., will give great results - its just a matter of personal preference at that point.

by **Tigger** » 02 19, 2015 • [Post 25]

Shane, thanks so much for the info. One the biggest things I learned is that it appears you cannot jump to a heavier broadhead like one would jump to a heavier bullet (just re-site in and you are good to go). There is more to it than that if that affects the sine wave of the arrow.

So I was thinking I was going to have to start over and pick a new broadhead and now I don't need to do a thing...the bow is already sighted in and I know they fly well. Thanks for your assistance, it has both educated me and saved me considerable time and expense!

Some elk in Wyoming is not too happy right now....

by **msd1228** » 02 19, 2015 • [Post 26]

Excellent! I'm glad you were able to get everything sorted. You are absolutely right - everything you change on your setup will have an effect on the arrow/bow relationship. If you ever want to see how a change may affect your setup then it is a good idea to reference the spine chart for the arrow manufacturer you are using. Draw weight, arrow length, tip weight, etc., will have all have an impact. If you've got the bow sighted and the arrows are flying well then you are good to go! When you are shooting a fixed blade broadhead and getting good, consistent flight, then it is usually a solid indicator that your bow is well tuned and that you aren't making too many mistakes with your shooting form. Looking forward to seeing some pics when you put the smack down this fall!

by **pointysticks** » 02 19, 2015 • [Post 27]

biggest deer i lost ran away, far away with a slick trick wound. to this day, i can swear to myself i put that arrow into the golden spot. i dont blame the head at all. i love them. i still use them. they fly amazing.

i also love my Montecs. they also fly great. altho they do make a big windy sound flying by. seen so many deer tipped over by my friend. he doesnt even sharpen them. i do. i can get them awful sharp. the wide shallow angle makes them feel dull to the finger, but they are very sharp. i have so many of these things..and i plan on flinging a few at turkey in a few weeks.

my main turkey head is a grim reaper. my birds have all just laid down and died.

NOW..brace yourself. RAGE heads. i think the new hypodermic head is wonderful. i folded my first deer over this year with one. honest 62 yard shot. hard quarter away shot. i hit back..where i aimed. the broad head blew out the front shoulder and kept going. never found it. the hole was HUGE, and the bone up front was splintered. this is my Couse deer BH..bar none. they fly perfect. any arrow. underspined, overspined..whatever. very confidence inspiring. especially for the long ball. i still cant believe i got a pass thru 2/3 the body length of a deer. my bow is not particularly fast. or my arrows that heavy..just plain jane arrows.

by **Tigger** » 02 20, 2015 • [Post 28]

Shane,
Yes, I will post some pictures. Thank you again for the help. I have really enjoyed the help folks have given me on this forum.

I feel kinda bad that my interaction on this forum so far has been flowing to me rather than from me. If anyone needs some advice on pheasant hunting, I would be happy to pass along some info!

by **mottlet** » 02 20, 2015 • [Post 29]

I saw the aftermath of a Rage 3 blade chisel tip and it was bad news for the cow on the receiving end. The guy that shot her said she went about 40 yards before she tipped over and it wasn't a perfect shot either. Little back. I've killed several whitetails with them, but didn't feel they performed any better than the slick tricks I was shooting last year. But those Rages will for sure hit RIGHT where your field points are hitting. For elk though, I'd probably stick to fixed blades. I think I'm going to try the Viper Tricks next year.

by **pointysticks** » 02 20, 2015 • [Post 30]

I have a guy that runs a tuscon bowshop. He absolutely gushes about the ramcats. He said they fly exactly like your FT's.

by **Jamieastle** » 04 28, 2015 • [Post 31]

I am going to throw in my $.02 here because it is a sad story. My boys and I mainly hunt elk and we usually do just fine, but several years back we had an issue that I still can’t believe. My son who had been very picky two previous year’s elk hunting finally took a shot at his first elk. Perfect situation 22 yards, broadside, perfect shot, slammed this really nice mature bull. I watched the bull run across an opening and got a very good look at the shot placement “perfect” and the arrow penetration “not so perfect” 10-11”, must of hit a rib, but usually that is not a problem. Still I thought dead elk, he should drop in the next 100-200 yards. Bow was at 62 lbs., 100 grain Montec, Carbon Express Terminator Lite Hunter 6075. BAD DEAL!, we looked for that bull for two days and never found it, including hunting the area for the next couple of weekends.
My boys are not allowed to hunt with less than 70 lbs bows cranked down all the way and we all shoot Hoyt’s, FMJ’s, either use 125 grain Wac’Em’s or Slick Tricks. Seems to get the job done and yes we have made bad shots, hit bones and still put em down.

by **welka** » 04 28, 2015 • [Post 32]

No such thing as a stupid question as that is how many learn along with live experience. I will join the fray with a twist. I have decided to go with Viper Tricks this year (can't go wrong if Paul uses them!), BUT I was VERY close to going with a Grim Reaper mechanical. I talked to designers/engineers from both companies (the engineer in me made me do it), studied posts on multiple forums and agree that a Rage or other mechanicals are not a good option for elk with other good fixed blade options that fly well at long distance (see Slick tricks, anarchy, VPA, Black Hornet, etc). The Grim Reaper, however, was DESIGNED for elk. Check out their website for a convincing story and then shoot a few animals with them and you will become a believer. If I am fortunate enough to get a bull first this year, I plan to try a Reaper on a cow for some meat for the locals. Fire away!

by **Gselkhunter** » 04 29, 2015 • [Post 33]

My son is a G5 Montec user, killed a lot of animals with them. He got me to shoot one on my set up[100gr] and it shot well. However you won't get me off the 130gr 4 blade Muzzy I shoot until they are gone[not made anymore but I have plenty]. Never had a failure, bent a couple but the blades will never come out by the design.
If you are worried about a broadhead coming apart shoot a SteelForce.
As far as a Rage Broadhead, you will never hunt out of my camp with one! Or any expandable for that matter.