Can we all vent about CO tags.

[POk3s]

It seems I do nothing but research an area to hunt in Colorado.

I (kind of) regret even starting to buy points. I have 3 points currently and my initial plan was to burn them in 2017 but it seems it's very much a middle ground. It doesn't seem like there's a ton of separation between a 2 PP unit and a 6 PP unit as far as trophy quality goes.

There are trophies in every unit I'm sure but I would like a legitimate shot at a 300" bull without having to wait 20 years (currently) to draw one of those tags. Not to mention by the time I get there it may take 30 points.

Ok....vent over. Would anyone else like to join in? hahaha

[under H2O hunter]

If your goal is to shoot a 300 class bull then don't wait burn your points cause most areas that require 2 or 3 PP have 300 class bulls. The true trophy areas are areas that have much larger 350 Plus class type bulls. What type of hunting are you doing? Archery/Rifle? I don't have point nor have I ever saved up points as I am pretty happy with the 290 to 330 class bulls I see in my OTC unit. I can't eat horns so it doesn't matter to me if a bull has a large rack or not.

[Indian Summer]

H2o is right. A 300 incher isn't all that tough to find without burning a pile of points. In Wyoming they are in every unit that has hunting on their General license. Same in Montana. I know zip about Colorado but I bet there are bulls like that most places.

[POk3s]

Right...I agree with all that. I'm just saying if I'm going to buy points I would like to have more of a trophy type hunt. And not being able to realistically get over there for a few years I'd hate to burn points on an area that doesn't produce a good number of 300"+ bulls.

A lot of that info might also be guys trying to hide their areas and give out some false info. Which I also completely understand. Lots of information to weed through to try and find an area I want to spend a few weekends making the trip south to scout!

[Indian Summer]

I hear you. I think that in many areas of Colorado even though there are 300 inchers the problem is finding them and dealing with all the competition. So perhaps the benefit of hunting an area with limited permits is simply less competition and therefore bulls that aren't hiding under rocks with their lips sealed.

The general areas I hunt in Wyoming have bulls to 330 and in some cases even to 380. But I also know a place where it takes 6 points to draw and the attraction is very few hunters and LOTS of bulls in the 320 class. The unit next to it requires 2 more points, also has minimal competition, and is known to offer realistic opportunities for 350 bulls.

So I guess you're on the right track. We can all say you could shoot a 300 incher in most places... but the idea is to be able to say I'll most likely have a chance to. It's probably safe to say that isn't the norm on most public land in Colorado in a one week time frame. Good luck to you.

[Rizzy]

I'm kind of in the same boat. I stopped playing the points game about 5 years ago, I concluded it just wasn't worth the investment. There are only a handful of true trophy units in each state and point creep makes them unreachable unless your in the max pool. I'm more confident that over time I will harvest my best Bull/Buck in an area I can hunt every year and get real familiar with. With that said, if I had the extra disposable cash, there are a few true trophy units in other states that I would go ahead and just play the random odds for.

[POk3s]

I hear you. I think that in many areas of Colorado even though there are 300 inchers the problem is finding them and dealing with all the competition. So perhaps the benefit of hunting an area with limited permits is simply less competition and therefore bulls that aren't hiding under rocks with their lips sealed.

The general areas I hunt in Wyoming have bulls to 330 and in some cases even to 380. But I also know a place where it takes 6 points to draw and the attraction is very few hunters and LOTS of bulls in the 320 class. The unit next to it requires 2 more points, also has minimal competition, and is known to offer realistic opportunities for 350 bulls.

So I guess you're on the right track. We can all say you could shoot a 300 incher in most places... but the idea is to be able to say I'll most likely have a chance to. It's probably safe to say that isn't the norm on most public land in Colorado in a one week time frame. Good luck to you.

Yep. I live in Wyo and the general area I hunt I'm fortunate enough to find a bull in the 300+ class every year to try and pattern and chase around. But it's usually just one bull in my little valley. This year I chased a 340" 6x7 around for a week. Had him within 40 yards twice. Had him to ten yards once. Just couldn't put it all together. Too smart for me. With all that said my biggest bull is a 260" 5x6. So all this buying points in other states I'm trying to really research and scout and find those diamonds in the rough....the bad part is I don't know if it's possible with the limited time we all have.

My general Wyoming area was so crowded this year that I'm too the point where I can't stand it. Luckily I had that 340" bull all to myself but it's only a matter of time before people start stepping over me in that small valley as well. Really branching out this summer and scouting new areas.

[under H2O hunter]

I get that points needed for an area usually gets you a chance at a better bulls. Not because there are more elk, it's because there is less pressure on those elk. I have a friend who saved up 17 points for a true trophy unit and still ended up eating tag soup because he couldn't close the deal. Just because you draw a particular unit doesn't mean you're guaranteed a certain size animal. Did he see elk? Of course lots of elk however elk are migratory and sometimes you can get skunked or not see a size animal in units that are managed for trophy status simply because they have learned to survive by adapting to whats going on around them and will move on you. Here is what I tell fellow elk hunters who are looking for a particular size animal. Get out and scout in the summertime when elk are in their summer ranges up high. You can inventory what is out there in that particular area much better where you can see lots and lots of elk. Once you have inventoried what is possible then start to figure out where those smaller bachelor herds are gonna end up. Set a few cameras up and start to pattern em. Once you know you have a fair amount of knowledge on a particular area you'll start to encounter better size animals.

As an elk hunter for 30 years I have come to learn that you can do all the research in the world on a computer and look over maps and talk to thousands of people about elk. The one thing that very few people do that are truly looking for a particular size animal is, they don't get out there and visually lay eyes on those animals. They think that they should be able to figure out where to go and what is in an area by simple getting on the internet. You can't find animals without some hard labor. Be it during a season or pre-scouting out an area. You're gonna have to put some time in if you want to find a particular size animal.

Do all areas have 300 class animals? Sure they do. What makes one unit better over another as far as having the numbers of those size animals is gonna very greatly from unit to unit based on multiple factors. For example. Does the unit have the necessary items to carry those numbers. Ample feed, water, cover, whats the pressure like, whats the access to that unit, and Bull to cow ratios? The more you can piece together the puzzle the less area you have to check out.

For example. an over the counter no points required unit is gonna have more pressure so bulls don't have as great a chance to get big. Does that mean you can't find a 300 bull? No it just means that bulls that are that size usually got to that size by staying way from areas where they feel that pressure while still having ample feed, water, and cover. So if you look for a unit that has a sizable herd with a large amount of space to roam without pressure from roads, civilization, and such you're more likely to see those larger animals. It's why bigger animals are usually seen in wilderness areas vs. areas that have access for vehicles. If a unit has lots of access then more hunters are gonna take the animals that are closer to the roads because they are easy. Not giving them a chance to grow larger. Can a 300 plus size elk get taken next to a road or trail? Sure it happens every year. Is it a good measuring stick for that particular unit? I don't think so. So what I am trying to say here is this. Don't measure a units potential size by a few stories you read over the internet. Get out there and look for your self.

We all have been told that the further you walk into an area the better your chances of seeing an animal right? Well the same goes for the size of that animal... Larger animals are smart they have been educated on how to survive. The further away from pressure you are the better the chances of getting bigger and smarter animals.

I think people have become lazy. We have become a society that wants instant gratification without having to work hard for it. Most of us who get on this forum are passionate about hunting elk. We swap stories and try and help each other out. But I have never seen someone say " Hey if you go to this spot your gonna have a greater chance of a record class animal. Most hunters are willing to share their success stories however they leave out the details like unit numbers and such in fear that their spot will be over run with others wanting that same success. People go through great lengths to protect "THEIR" area. I have seen guys post no trespassing signs on national forest grounds, I have seen guys cut trees down to block trails, The list goes on and on in order to keep places all to themselves. Do you really think guys are gonna give true details about an area over the internet for the world to see? No, they won't which is ok. This forum has lots of wonderful people on it willing to privately share useful info.

In closing let me leave you with this: If you really want a trophy hunt without having to play the points game you have two choices 1) Pay to hunt private property in a unit that has potential for a trophy or 2) You'll need to put some time in scouting out multiple units and deciding which one is got the most potential.

I wish you the best of luck and I hope when you burn your points it pays off.

James

[POk3s]

James, thank you for your long winded response. I agree with you completely on all aspects. I'm just simply in phase one here. I would LOVE to go down and scout. I enjoy that aspect of the game. But living in Wyoming I can't make a ton of trips down there to scout, and I don't want to be flying all over the state. I want to have a unit picked out, have a few certain drainages in that unit picked out and go spend a week there and pick it apart.

All I'm saying is it doesn't seem like there is a huge gap between a 2 preference point unit and a 6 preference point unit. If I'm sitting on 7 points where can I burn them and have a great chance at a good bull....or am I better off saving up those points into the double digits and maybe even longer to have a great hunt in an awesome unit. That wasn't what I set out to do when I started buying points, but it now looks like it's the direction I'm headed.

[under H2O hunter]

Sometimes i have the gift of gab... Sorry for the long winded rant. You are very observant in the fact that there is no difference between a 6 point unit and a 2 point unit when it comes to quality of elk. It's about pressure. I have found that the units that require more then 5 points are units that are "easier" to hunt which is the driving factor in why they require more points not necessarily the quality of animals. Don't get me wrong they still have quality animals however the same quality of animals are in units that require no points or just one or two but are less desirable units because of the terrain. I don't think that the truly quality units are obtainable until you get in the high teens with your points. This is do to the fact that the Colorado DOW (Now called Parks and Wildlife) started implementing the 4 point or 5 inch brow tine law as well as the Ranching for wildlife BS. Most of the guys who have 15 points or more are the guys who were saving up for quality units before the Ranching for wildlife program and when any bull was legal. Which then lead to more hunters playing the PP game and so the creeping began. With only a small hand full of true trophy units there is so many people applying for those units in my opinion they are not reachable anymore. So for me I choose to play another game. With the fact that the Colorado allows you to have multiple elk tags I personally hunt for a trophy Bull during the archery season and take my B tag during the rifle season. Now I know that this is not always possible for guys paying the non resident fees. However as a resident it is awesome. Wyoming in my opinion is the best state to hunt elk in. You can archery hunt and if you don't fill your tag you can rifle hunt on that same tag in a general unit. It has less pressure then Colorado and several other states and their non resident fees are very reasonable. Wyoming is a true sportsman's state where Colorado is all about the money.

Not to change subject but I have to ask you. Why are you even interested in trying for a "Trophy" in Colorado when you live in Wyoming? You have a better chance of a trophy animal in the Cowboy state then you do in Colorado in my opinion with places like the Red Desert and Laramie Peak just to name a couple. If you're looking for a wall hanging type bull you could head to Arizona in the later rifle seasons and get a tag every 3 or 4 years. Far less time to wait then the 7 years you've already waited in Colorado.

[POk3s]

You are very observant in the fact that there is no difference between a 6 point unit and a 2 point unit when it comes to quality of elk. It's about pressure. I have found that the units that require more then 5 points are units that are "easier" to hunt which is the driving factor in why they require more points not necessarily the quality of animals. Don't get me wrong they still have quality animals however the same quality of animals are in units that require no points or just one or two but are less desirable units because of the terrain.

Not to change subject but I have to ask you. Why are you even interested in trying for a "Trophy" in Colorado when you live in Wyoming? You have a better chance of a trophy animal in the Cowboy state then you do in Colorado in my opinion with places like the Red Desert and Laramie Peak just to name a couple. If you're looking for a wall hanging type bull you could head to Arizona in the later rifle seasons and get a tag every 3 or 4 years. Far less time to wait then the 7 years you've already waited in Colorado.

Now we're on the same page . I didn't do a TON of research before applying for my first point. I just had enough money to put down on that "savings bond that loses money" . Colorado was the number one choice because of opportunity. Now I've switched gears a little. I live in Wyoming so to hunt Colorado before too long was an easy choice.

I am interested in having a good chance at a better than average bull in every state I put in for. Without any type of points system in Wyoming it's random draw year after year after year....which I've been on the short end of. I'm only 23 but that means 12 years of "Unsuccessful" for elk next to my name. I've never had the opportunity to hunt a limited quota elk unit and the odds are just getting steeper. Laramie peak gives out too many tags in my opinion and there's a lot of private land owned by a few big time ranches. (wagonhound being number 1). Red Desert area 100 is 3% draw odds and the other desert bull tags with good public access are 10% or less.

Also, I did buy a point in Arizona last year (as well as nevada) so I'm starting the cycle in those states as well.

[GoldToyBox]

So far I've got very little to complain about Colorado tags and how they are issued but the times are a changing.
This year there was a proposal before the commission to limit non-resident tag to 20% or less (it was not implemented but who knows in the future).

One way the game dept came up to glean more dollars from hunters is to include a "free" fishing lic with your game tag (it's not a price increase per the game dept) so now you have a fishing lic but there is not any water to fish where your hunting or you have no desire to fish...... but you paid another $50 bucks to get your tag ...... what next a "free" Pheasant lic for another $50?

As for the bonus points or preference points .... not so sure it isn't a scam? I have a few points while a buddy has purchased a landowner tag for less money than I have invested in points. So not sure how it all shake out?

Good luck in the drawings! see ya in the Fall.

[GoldToyBox]

Also, I did buy a point in Arizona last year (as well as nevada) so I'm starting the cycle in those states as well.

I got 14 pts in AZ and don't have much hope of drawing the tags I want .... so not so sure you want to go that route. As for Nevada, like Arizona the non-resident tags are capped, so your odds of drawing a tag there are very slim. I haven't been following in recent years but Nevada fees I believe they are much higher than Arizona's?

[under H2O hunter]

So far I've got very little to complain about Colorado tags and how they are issued but the times are a changing.
This year there was a proposal before the commission to limit non-resident tag to 20% or less (it was not implemented but who knows in the future).

One way the game dept came up to glean more dollars from hunters is to include a "free" fishing lic with your game tag (it's not a price increase per the game dept) so now you have a fishing lic but there is not any water to fish where your hunting or you have no desire to fish...... but you paid another $50 bucks to get your tag ...... what next a "free" Pheasant lic for another $50?

As for the bonus points or preference points .... not so sure it isn't a scam? I have a few points while a buddy has purchased a landowner tag for less money than I have invested in points. So not sure how it all shake out?

Good luck in the drawings! see ya in the Fall.

It's TOTALLY a scam. Colorado is trying to cash in on out of state hunters.. I have been to many of commission meetings and its always the same. How can they earn more money. Colorado took a big hit after the ridiculous gun laws were passed and now they are trying to regain the loss revenue.

The reason that the proposal for 20% less non-resident tags was brought about by outfitters and land owners who are losing revenue. It to is a scam so they can charge outrageous amounts of money to guys who want to come shoot a Colorado Bull elk. Period.

[GoldToyBox]

It's TOTALLY a scam. Colorado is trying to cash in on out of state hunters.. I have been to many of commission meetings and its always the same. How can they earn more money. Colorado took a big hit after the ridiculous gun laws were passed and now they are trying to regain the loss revenue.

The reason that the proposal for 20% less non-resident tags was brought about by outfitters and land owners who are losing revenue. It to is a scam so they can charge outrageous amounts of money to guys who want to come shoot a Colorado Bull elk. Period.

I will have to disagree with one point; the Colorado guide association fought against the 20% cap. Most of their clients are non-residents!

[Gselkhunter]

A draw area does have some advantage of less hunters but that doesn't mean less human contact. The number of hikers and campers has gone up and the high point areas are a huge draw to these folks also. But lets get to the real issue, many areas could be drawn with zero points a few years ago. There were close to 600,000 elk in CO. The DOW cut that number in half causing the loss of hunter slots per draw unit. With draw tags less in numbers points go up and will keep doing so.
The one positive is the DOW got bull to cow ratios back to 1-3. There were places you would have 10+ cows to every bull. Hence the point restrictions which has added to a more balanced herd.
Now the real cause of point numbers going up is two fold:
1 economy, CO is still one of the cheapest places for non-resident hunters
2 what we are doing here, people talk to dam much.
Example is unit 49, the first 5 years I hunted the unit I drew with no points. Then it went to one then two now it is three. In a couple more years it will probably be 6. The unit had 200 tags but the elk population was twice as much.
Don't let me talk you out of draw units but the point monster is growing by leaps and bounds and it isn't going to stop.

[POk3s]

I hear you. It's just a matter of chasing the point monster or getting out of it relatively soon. I may just need to start from scratch and go over every unit one at a time and see what I can come up with on paper. Then head head out and scout. Hopefully finding one that's not talked about a whole lot, lots of access, and low points. Pipe dream I know.

[Elkduds]

Anyone starting now will never catch up to the 10+ point units, as long as the current system remains. The hybrid draw is one shortcut, but it is a crapshoot. Only takes 5 pts to be in the hybrid draw, it is random so having more than 5 points doesn't increase the odds. Nonresidents have same odds as residents in the hybrid pool. If you don't draw, you get another pp. Another shortcut is buying a landowner voucher, which is good in the entire unit, not just the landowner's property. Turn in a poacher and CPW will reward you w points or a coveted tag.

A good Plan B and long range planning over multiple years are key to accumulating those 5 points. Working multiple states can provide Plan Bs. Cow hunts, deer and bear hunts, and other-than-favorite-weapon hunts make good Plan Bs, often allowing you to hunt a unit a few times while saving points for a bull tag in that unit. You can have @ least 2 tags each for elk and deer, per year. CO is good about letting you give a tag back for a refund before the season. Say you get a preference point, draw your 2nd choice and buy an OTC tag. You can return one tag if plans change, if you harvest during the earlier of the 2 seasons, if it conflicts w a tag you have for another species or another state. Some groups will do the same hunt every year, with one guy holding a bull tag, and the others w cow, bear or deer tags. The next year somebody else in the group has enough points for the bull tag; last year's bull hunter will draw a cow or other species tag, and accumulate a point toward his next bull hunt.

Gregg was right above, the CPW drastically shrunk the state's elk herd size by issuing lots of cow tags for several years. That is about over. So tag #s drop, point creep accelerates, voucher and outfitter hunts inflate in cost, and nonresidents get shoved aside. I am not endorsing this system, just describing its realities. Plan B is key to hunting while saving points

[POk3s]

Luckily I live in wyoming so I don't really NEED a plan B. Although it would be great to go hunt cows in an area and gain knowledge. Might be what I do. If I don't kill a cow then it's really no skin off my back since I "should" kill an elk in wyoming every year. That 5 points for the hybrid draw has me somewhat intrigued. My track record for drawing random tags has been virtually non existent. So much that I haven't drawn a buck tag in Wyoming for the last 4 (maybe 5 years) and I'm not putting in for areas less than 30% . For two of those years it was a coin flip.

I thank you for the input as it may have just solidified my plan. Spend some money on a cow tag, hunt the area, if i don't like what I see i move onto the next one all the while putting in for a tag i most likely won't draw....and if I do.....PERFECT!

[shaneatkinson82]

Anyone starting now will never catch up to the 10+ point units, as long as the current system remains. The hybrid draw is one shortcut, but it is a crapshoot. Only takes 5 pts to be in the hybrid draw, it is random so having more than 5 points doesn't increase the odds. Nonresidents have same odds as residents in the hybrid pool. If you don't draw, you get another pp. Another shortcut is buying a landowner voucher, which is good in the entire unit, not just the landowner's property. Turn in a poacher and CPW will reward you w points or a coveted tag.

A good Plan B and long range planning over multiple years are key to accumulating those 5 points. Working multiple states can provide Plan Bs. Cow hunts, deer and bear hunts, and other-than-favorite-weapon hunts make good Plan Bs, often allowing you to hunt a unit a few times while saving points for a bull tag in that unit. You can have @ least 2 tags each for elk and deer, per year. CO is good about letting you give a tag back for a refund before the season. Say you get a preference point, draw your 2nd choice and buy an OTC tag. You can return one tag if plans change, if you harvest during the earlier of the 2 seasons, if it conflicts w a tag you have for another species or another state. Some groups will do the same hunt every year, with one guy holding a bull tag, and the others w cow, bear or deer tags. The next year somebody else in the group has enough points for the bull tag; last year's bull hunter will draw a cow or other species tag, and accumulate a point toward his next bull hunt.

Gregg was right above, the CPW drastically shrunk the state's elk herd size by issuing lots of cow tags for several years. That is about over. So tag #s drop, point creep accelerates, voucher and outfitter hunts inflate in cost, and nonresidents get shoved aside. I am not endorsing this system, just describing its realities. Plan B is key to hunting while saving points

See this this has me concerned. I relocated here in early 2014. Did not enter the draw due to it being past the deadline. Plan to this year. Still lost on points overall. I found this site in hopes of just figuring out how to hunt an Elk overall. If one was to ignore points...would an over the counter tag / left over prove successful for someone just looking to get their first elk? At this point I think I'd have fun just seeing them and taking a cow. With the comments in this thread it appears one can be successful without a limited tag but must put in leg work and dedication.

[POk3s]

There's certainly OTC areas where a guy can kill elk. Hell, thousands of guys do it every year. Research an area, find one that looks good on paper and really learn that sucker.

[zpd307]

shane, don't let otc units scare you. yes, the elk will probably be more pressured, but they are still there. I have yet to find an unpressured area.....those limited entry areas can take 10+ years to draw or you are spending big money to hunt private ranches. my first ever elk hunt was with a rifle on a private ranch in utah. I knew the guy and he gave me a hell of a deal! my first ever hunt in Colorado, in a highly pressured otc archery unit, I still screwed up on several bulls. a rag 4 and a small 5 at 40 and 50 yards. I was busted by several others....
you will be way more ahead of the game than I was, as I didn't find this site until last year. 2 years after I started elk hunting..... this site has a ton of awesome info and experience. it helped me arrow my first elk and bull in Idaho last sept on year 3!

[shaneatkinson82]

There's certainly OTC areas where a guy can kill elk. Hell, thousands of guys do it every year. Research an area, find one that looks good on paper and really learn that sucker.

And this is where I am now. Narrowing down areas that look good on paper. I'm currently working my way through the Co Elk Hunting 101 course to figure this all out....and scoring this forum with a fine tooth comb.

Problem I have in Colorado is people don't talk like I am use to. To often I feel people think I am spot scouting when I start asking about GMUs. No need to tell me where to hunt or where you hunt, just help me align real math data with the statistical data on the website so I can at least be on the right path especially if it is an OTC area. I won't be the only one there. I understand protecting your spot but its the same for all species here is what I think. Asking about ducks is probably the worse.

[shaneatkinson82]

shane, don't let otc units scare you. yes, the elk will probably be more pressured, but they are still there. I have yet to find an unpressured area.....those limited entry areas can take 10+ years to draw or you are spending big money to hunt private ranches. my first ever elk hunt was with a rifle on a private ranch in utah. I knew the guy and he gave me a hell of a deal! my first ever hunt in Colorado, in a highly pressured otc archery unit, I still screwed up on several bulls. a rag 4 and a small 5 at 40 and 50 yards. I was busted by several others....
you will be way more ahead of the game than I was, as I didn't find this site until last year. 2 years after I started elk hunting..... this site has a ton of awesome info and experience. it helped me arrow my first elk and bull in Idaho last sept on year 3!

Thanks for the info. Two things I just don't have. Time or money. I still plan to enter draws just in hopes that it truly is a lottery. However, I need to start now on narrowing down those GMUs and having a plan B. I'm just excited to be out in the woods with these animals in the hopes of seeing one. That to me will be awesome....on my first hunt at least. I am definitely aiming for archery just so I can get out there and start learning. All mistakes will be applied to the rifle season.

[zpd307]

as far as money, you are all ready ahead of the game there too.... not to complain too much, but, I need $600 just for the tag and several hundred more for fuel. but that's not going to stop me each September

[under H2O hunter]

There's certainly OTC areas where a guy can kill elk. Hell, thousands of guys do it every year. Research an area, find one that looks good on paper and really learn that sucker.

And this is where I am now. Narrowing down areas that look good on paper. I'm currently working my way through the Co Elk Hunting 101 course to figure this all out....and scoring this forum with a fine tooth comb.

Problem I have in Colorado is people don't talk like I am use to. To often I feel people think I am spot scouting when I start asking about GMUs. No need to tell me where to hunt or where you hunt, just help me align real math data with the statistical data on the website so I can at least be on the right path especially if it is an OTC area. I won't be the only one there. I understand protecting your spot but its the same for all species here is what I think. Asking about ducks is probably the worse.

How do expect people to talk? I think people are willing to help however I don't think they are comfortable with posting unit numbers on the web because there are people who spot scout. If you send private messages I feel most people are honest with their replies and are very helpful. If you have any questions please feel free to PM me and I am always willing to help guys out with units that I know. I have cover most of the units North of i-70. I run numbers and look at hunt data and analyze it for fun when I am bored.

[shaneatkinson82]

How do expect people to talk? I think people are willing to help however I don't think they are comfortable with posting unit numbers on the web because there are people who spot scout. If you send private messages I feel most people are honest with their replies and are very helpful. If you have any questions please feel free to PM me and I am always willing to help guys out with units that I know. I have cover most of the units North of i-70. I run numbers and look at hunt data and analyze it for fun when I am bored.

I don't mean on the internet. I understand that for sure. I go to DU banquets, hunting shows, and coffee shops as I try to build relationships so guys know I wont go blabbing about info. However, no matter how much time I spend talking when we get into discussing the basics of figuring out GMUs I am just told to check out the CPW page.

I have checked the numbers on the page, once I narrow areas I try to get word of mouth how guys were successful. These numbers don't tell me if an experienced hunter took that elk or some dude just drove up, saw it, and shot it. Again, I don't want grids to their trail cams and blinds, I'd just like someone to at least nod their head and let me know if I am on the right track. Again, I know all units hold animals. However, I feel some people can be a little honest and let me know if an area could be successful for a first time elk hunter on his own or if I would be better off looking into a different unit.

Bottom line is I feel gaining knowledge in Colorado is harder for a guy who works word of mouth then other states I have hunted.

[POk3s]

Well you can't blame anyone. You might be part of the 10% that would hold someones spot secure. But to be honest I hardly even tell my best friends where I was. Granted they know the unit....but sometimes that's about it. If somebody starts trying to dig into where I was I usually backpedal pretty quickly too. You have to in this day in age.

[under H2O hunter]

Elk hunting is personal with so many guys. Most guys I have talked to in a bar or a banquet are about the same. Let me give you an example. Last archery season I left my camp and went to a bar to watch the broncos play. I ordered some food and beers and watched the crowd to see who were hunters. Once I spotted a table with 6 guys I moved a little closer to confirm they were hunters. After listening to them for a bit I walked over and said " Hey I couldn't help but over hear that you guys are hunting" Right off the bat the most vocal guy, the alpha male of the group says " Yep we sure are, and we ain't telling you were the elk are either" I simple replied with "That's ok cause I already know where several dozen elk are hanging out" This seamed to puzzle the alpha dog of the group and he simmered down and then asked what they could answer for me. I was merely looking for subtle info like if they had heard much bugling and what times of day they were hearing it? I think what was funny about the conversation was the longer I let them talk the more they revealed without even knowing it. By the end of the conversation I even got the alpha male to ask me where I had been seeing the couple dozen elk hanging out. I replied with "In the woods, and I hope you guys find em too" Now if he wouldn't have been such a donkey I would of happily given them more detailed info.

Approach is key when getting info. As my grand daddy use to tell me as a young boy. You catch more fly's with honey then you do with vinegar. I still live by these words when it comes to hunting info. The mountain I hunt has several regular camps on it every year. I make it a point to introduce myself and say hello every year to all the camps and share info with them as they have given me good info in years past. Now I don't tell em exact drainages but I'll tell em elevation and direction I see the animals heading. There are a couple of guys I will share more with then others as I have built great relationships with these guys and I know when they give me info it's solid stuff. The hard part is when you meet new guys and figuring out an approach to get what you want and just how much are you willing to give up.

In the end rely on the info you personally have checked out and feel is best and remember that loose lips sink ships so if you don't want to see anyone else around you then don't say a word to a single person ever. But don't ask for help either.

[shaneatkinson82]

Well you can't blame anyone. You might be part of the 10% that would hold someones spot secure. But to be honest I hardly even tell my best friends where I was. Granted they know the unit....but sometimes that's about it. If somebody starts trying to dig into where I was I usually backpedal pretty quickly too. You have to in this day in age.

In the end rely on the info you personally have checked out and feel is best and remember that loose lips sink ships so if you don't want to see anyone else around you then don't say a word to a single person ever. But don't ask for help either.

I 100% agree and understand what y'all are saying. Let me throw this y'alls way.......

As I research and attempt to find GMUs on paper. Would you let me send you what I am thinking in a PM...both OTC and limited draw....and would you be willing to simply tell me if I am on the right track for paper/image scouting? I am working on building my matrix as the CPW website recommends for the draw. I'd like somebody to overlook it...with experience...and let me know if my rankings are even attainable without points. Again, no exact locations just a GMU ranking to see if I am just wasting my time and draw slots. If not, I understand and will continue to learn this by trial and error.

Side not, I am always respectful to those I meet. Call it sugar if you want, just the way I was raised.

[under H2O hunter]

I wouldn't be on this sight If I wasn't willing to help others. So you're always welcome to send me a Pm and I can assure you that I will give you an honest answer. I know how tuff it is when you're trying something new and few people will give you any direction. It's been frustrating in my past so I make it point to help others who are helping themselves to learn something I may have some knowledge about.

[POk3s]

I'd be fine with it as well. Although you can see from my opening post how thoroughly confused I am about Colorado elk (on paper) hahahaha.

[EVD]

Another thing to consider when looking to pick a unit is what type of experience are you looking for? A GMU with a lot of wilderness area and less roads will offer different hunting options than one with many roads and access (obviously). So many areas in CO hold elk. Do you want to pack in or camp along a road, high country or lower elevation unit, etc? How far from home are you willing to travel? Some units have much more public land than others, does that matter to you?

Those questions may help narrow down some of your choices. The 'popular' areas are that way for a reason, often more elk and more hunters chasing them.

[shaneatkinson82]

Currently building my matrix. If a GMU is not listed on the statistics page for the draw would it be safe to assume that was an OTC area for 2014?

[under H2O hunter]

Currently building my matrix. If a GMU is not listed on the statistics page for the draw would it be safe to assume that was an OTC area for 2014?

If you are referring to "Draw Summaries" Then yes that would be correct.

[shaneatkinson82]

Currently building my matrix. If a GMU is not listed on the statistics page for the draw would it be safe to assume that was an OTC area for 2014?

If you are referring to "Draw Summaries" Then yes that would be correct.

That is what I was referring to. I found a unit that seems to have a lot of OTC and great draw potential. However, I am reading these units can be a concern due to hunter pressure. Still working that matrix.

[POk3s]

Noticed you boys on that "I hunt colorado" page. I will pop a few questions here and there but just lurking for now. Shane you are definitely asking all the right question, and everyone seems to be responding accordingly. Let me present you with this, I plan on making a scouting trip or two this summer to some Limited Draw units as well as maybe an OTC unit or two. I can show you what I look for on maps as well as relating it to putting boots to the ground and checking it out. If this sounds like something that interests you you are more than welcome to tag along for a day or two if our schedules sync up.

[shaneatkinson82]

Noticed you boys on that "I hunt colorado" page. I will pop a few questions here and there but just lurking for now. Shane you are definitely asking all the right question, and everyone seems to be responding accordingly. Let me present you with this, I plan on making a scouting trip or two this summer to some Limited Draw units as well as maybe an OTC unit or two. I can show you what I look for on maps as well as relating it to putting boots to the ground and checking it out. If this sounds like something that interests you you are more than welcome to tag along for a day or two if our schedules sync up.

I would absolutely be interested in that. I try to never turn down a chance to learn something. Appreciate the offer. Just let me know when the time comes.

[Passin Thru]

I don't know if points are a scam or not but with no proof I wouldn't accuse Colorado on a public forum. I do know this, having been raised in NM and spent a lot of time In Co, you can see big trophy bulls anywhere, anytime, except after the first day of gun season. As for points draw, Having hunted with my cousins from NM and having cousins in Creede I know it is fair. The one from NM got a prime one with 1 point and was calling cows and a huge Bull walked up to him. The one from Creede got a smaller bull this year but he wanted a trophy. Said he got itchy the last day of bow and took a small one early the saw his Trophy walk off.It's all part of the game and the money goes to conservation anyway. I am lucky as where I live I can get 12 deer off my property as they are a nuisance. You can practically walk up to them.