First Timer, is this a Solid Plan?

[bowhunter15]

I'm heading out to CO first rifle season on Thursday with two friends. None of us has hunted elk before, though I've been pretty successful hunting pressured whitetails in steep bluff terrain and am somewhat familiar with thermals. I've posted two maps of the area we're headed, one with a better view of terrain and the other with a better view of cover. I've got a plan, but basically would like some input from other elk hunters as to whether or not it is a good plan, or if I've overlooked some things. The trailhead is at the red circle. We plan on hiking ~4 miles up the mountain and camping at the red triangle. From there, the area most interesting to me is the ridgeline between the 10,400ft peak and the 11,000+ft peak on the west side of the map. My guess is that hunters walking in from the trailhead would push elk up the drainage and over that ridgeline through one of the three saddles I've highlighted in blue. My plan right now is to be waiting at one of those funnels from first light until the thermals start rising, then stillhunt down the drainage, either to the east or west. I'm hoping if I sight elk moving at first light that will give me an idea of where to focus. There are trailheads to the north and to the west, but they are a further trek to get to where I'm at. I'm not too worried about more pressure from that side. The weather forecast for a nearby town (~8000 feet) is highs in the upper 40s to low 50s and lows in the upper 20s to low 30s. With the extra elevation my estimate is that I should subtract 6-13 degrees to those temperatures based on temperature-elevation relationships. Rain is forecasted one day, but I have to imagine it will be snow at our altitude. I don't know if the elk are still that high up, or when they start migrating towards winter grounds.

[cohunter14]

I don't know if I would camp where you are planning simply because that looks to be an even better saddle that the three you marked off. Elk could travel through that saddle to a bedding area on that north side and feeding areas on the south. I also don't know that I would want to be sitting at the top of one of those saddles first thing in the morning. You mentioned thermals and first thing in the morning, that is pushing your scent down to anything that would be coming up towards you. I would recommend waiting to get to the top of those saddles until the morning thermals have changed. Just a couple initial thoughts...

[Olydog09]

Ditto what Cohunter14r said. The spot you are planning your camp in looks like it may be a great travel corridor or even an evening feeding destination.

[bowhunter15]

Thanks for the replies. My initial thought at that camping spot was that even though it was a nice saddle, no elk in their right mind would cross it during daylight hours in the wide open during rifle season... But that's probably just the midwestern deer hunter in me. Where's a more ideal location to set base camp in general? I suppose you'd probably want to be slightly below the elk (maybe a few hundred feet below the ridgetop) since the thermals drop all throughout the night? Then start still hunting and glassing up the hill, with the goal of reaching a ridgetop saddle by the time the thermals start to rise? Then sit there and glass a while before still hunting downward. Or maybe watching the saddle all day on the opener in case hunters push elk through them at any given hour of the day?

And as far as elk patterns... I'm assuming that they bed during the day up high in the thickest, nastiest stuff (north slope evergreen perhaps?) and then emerge to feed downward as light fades, feed through the dark in the drainage, then head back up around first light to bed again?

[Elkduds]

No matter where you camp, go hunt that bench where your map says PB39. Where your red trail crosses from PB37 to 38 it looks like a lake is there. That might be a camping spot. Good luck!

[cohunter14]

Agree with Mark on that bench. I would maybe consider camping at the bottom center of PB37 along your trail at the bottom of that saddle. Looks like there is water there. Then you can hunt uphil, either up the valley or up the trail you already planned on. It'll save you from having to carry your gear up that hill as well. One thing to remember is that it is always easier to hunt uphill in the morning, not only because of thermals, but then you head downhill back to camp when you are tired. You also get to carry meat out downhill when you tag one!

[Waygoner]

Around here everything above 10k feet has snow. More is expected later this week.

[bowhunter15]

All very good points. I hadn't thought about camping right on water, but that makes complete sense. That bench is a pretty dominating feature, and heavily wooded. I see a couple terrain features along the east side of it, mainly a couple cuts with streams that may have trails around the topside, and also that really steep section (highlighted red in the topo map). Elk might funnel around the top side of that steep drop as they travel N-S along the east side of that bench. Do they bed on benches like this? Or use them more for travel?

[itsnlkthing]

In my experience, the bedding areas will depend on the amount of hunting pressure. If there are a lot of hunters, they will push out to areas that are difficult to access. For camp, pick someplace that gets sun. If there is snow in the area, it will be a lot more comfortable. There were 10 inches on the ground in most of my area during second rifle last year. Areas with direct sun melted off and were a lot warmer places for me to sleep. Elk won't hesitate to bed on a snowy hillside. Cold to us is comfortable to them.

[bowhunter15]

I think I'm starting to develop a little better understanding of what to look for. I've highlighted most of the major saddles and benches in the top 1/3 of elevation. The two major saddles I've marked with red dots (one which was mentioned a couple times before) also happen to be adjacent to large benches. It seems like a combination of those two (as well as thick evergreen on the benches for bedding) are the main things to focus on. This whole area is centered between the two major hiking trails (i.e. longer to access, steeper for hunters to get to). Elk will be on the benches during the day while bedding, but will head travel to out to feed in the evening to feed, and back again in the morning utilizing saddles along the way if I'm understanding correctly.

[fishlips]

First time elk hunter here as well and am interested in following this. I am a midwestern deer hunter, so reading topo maps is not my forte. Just curious though on why the bench next to PB39 is such a draw? Do elk naturally congregate to a spot like that and it is a huge bonus that it looks like there is water there as well?

[WapitiTalk1]

Garrett, Jered.... welcome to "the" elk forum guys! Glad to have you both on board. For some additional scouting tips/tricks, check out the Archived Tips section on top. You'll find some very good info on how to go about the whole remote/map scouting mission. RJ

[cohunter14]

Just curious though on why the bench next to PB39 is such a draw? Do elk naturally congregate to a spot like that and it is a huge bonus that it looks like there is water there as well?

It is a flat 'bench' on a north facing, heavily timbered slope. Having water makes it all the better. It is also very high up the mountain. Elk love bedding areas that fit these criteria.

[bowhunter15]

Awesome. I read the archives which contain some great info. I'm thinking early morning on opening day I will be perched in the thin timber funnel on the north side of the big P38 saddle. I see that as a great double funnel (thin strip of timber east/west, and significant saddle n/s) each which elk could cross heading to the P39 bench. I will just need to toss some milkweed and determine my position in the timber strip accordingly. After the initial opening day burst of hunters I should be able to better assess hunting pressure and adopt the more traditional "bottoms up" technique in the morning and evening, using midday to go high and glass remote benches.

[bowhunter15]

An update on how this hunt went... We got to the parking lot on Friday around noon and there were already about a dozen vehicles there, including about 6 horse trailers. No problem, we thought. There's only one big horse trail and those guys probably won't hike far off of it. We were wrong, as there was an even more worn down horse trail going up the Rough creek drainage that wasn't on the map. We set up camp 4 miles off the marked trail, unaware that there were 4 horse camps, a llama camp, a backpacking group, and an outfitter camp all below us in the drainage. There were also people who took horses up the marked trail to the north, and a llama camp that set up on the bench at 39. I'd estimate close to 30 hunters camping in all. Opening morning I set up at the top of the big saddle. Little did I know that just before shooting light 2 other guys climbed up the saddle but stayed on the front side, out of my sight. At 9:00 I heard them blast off about 6 shots. I walked to the front side of the saddle to find a 4x5 on the ground. I was in the right spot, but hadn't anticipated the pressure. That same saddle had at minimum 3 hunters on it every single day. All of the saddles on the west side of the map had just as many hunters. I'd say I heard between 30-40 shots opening day. We got 8 inches of snow on Sunday. I put on 10 miles and found no tracks, and heard no shots. Monday I again heard no shots. I put on another 10 miles, finding two sets of tracks that seemingly wandered aimlessly 360 degrees aground a peak for miles before giving up. The snow was much too loud for tracking anyway. Tuesday I missed the morning hunt because I couldn't get my boots on. They were frozen stiff. I tried for 15 minutes. That morning around 9:00 three bulls came through that big saddle in the center again. I know because 12 or 13 shots woke me up from the 3 guys who had been sitting there. One bull was a nice 6x7. It was so shot up I don't think they had any edible meet on the quarters from what I could see. I have no idea what caused those bulls to go through that saddle with so much consistent hunter scent there. By this time I gave in to the fact that the deeper I went, the more hunters I saw and the less sign I found. I was slowly finding out by word of mouth how many camps were hidden at the bottom of the drainage. Across the west ridge, there were apparently 5 or 6 more camps. My buddies were starting to see more sign down the mountain and closer to the main trail. I conceded, and we hunted in the middle area between the horse camps and the day hunters. We all saw elk, mostly cows with one spike, and mostly running. The guy with the cow tag missed twice. It was crazy. That area was LITTERED with elk sign on the opener. It was unbelievable, and you could hear bugles overnight. With hunters on every ridge and saddle, all set up before daybreak and walking around at mid day, the elk sure moved out in a hurry. We had enough of a good experience to want to do it again...

But no way am I EVER hunting the general rifle season again. All archery from here on out. And I'm going to start doing more research on the draw hunts, perhaps trying to alternate states so I can draw a limited tag every year somewhere. We had good ideas going in. Every spot we wanted to hunt was loaded with sign. Heck, we just flat out underestimated the ability of horses to go way back in and take the old timers back to their favorite honey holes.

[Elkduds]

I feel your pain! Plenty to learn from your example. Map scouting never shows hunter pressure, though you can get some idea of it by reading statistics RE # of hunters/recreation days in CO stats online. Sounds like there were more successful hunters in your area than in most OTC units (guessing you were in OTC), so that's a good thing, it may make for a good archery hunt in the future. You observed how to be successful in that kind of pressure. It isn't the kind of hunting many of us enjoy. Guys w experience in that area got to the good spots, waited while pressure moved game, some were successful. You moved to a new area, which was smart. The Sea of Orange is not pretty, and can be scary when the bullets start flying. You stayed safe, saw good country, learned a bunch, and plan to return. So that is all to the good. W a few more cow tags in the party, you might be dining on elk.

Also, you will never know how many hunters found that spot via online resources. IMs are preferred in discussing specific areas, for that reason.

Can you figure out ways to intercept the bulls that crossed those saddles, before they get exposed to the hunters on the high ground?

[ak32]

wow that would totally bum me out to see that...nothing like over 30 other hunters crowded in the same area to ruin your experience. At least you were on the Elk and you picked a good spot. It's hard to gauge hunting pressure once the season starts. Had a similar experience 1st rifle season last year in the unit I hunt so I definitely feel for you.

I know where that area is you're hunting, well over 5000 hunters per season with over 1500 in first season alone last year in that unit...talk about crowded. Not to mention the fact that a huge amount of that unit is private land.

[njdoxie]

All rifle seasons aren't like that, you sure found a bad one, I've been on a couple rifle hunts and not seen another hunter. .....I'm hunting 2nd rifle starting tomorrow, got my fingers crossed, I hate seeing orange.

[itsnlkthing]

I would agree with njdoxie, they are not all like that and good areas can be found but you need to be creative. It's hard when you can't spend some time in the off season to determine access beyond what is shown on a map. I hunted 2nd rifle last year, OTC, and only ran into 4 hunters in 8 days and all of them were encountered on the pack trail. Hunter stats from the DOW give some idea. Other things to avoid are units near major population areas, well known trail heads and trail heads with easy access for horse trailers. I used to hunt another unit and it got to the point where it was like you describe. Areas with ATV access also bring in a lot of pressure and unwanted noise.

[fishlips]

Bummer. Heading out to Colorado tomorrow to hunt the rest of the second rifle season. In an otc unit. Hoping it's not as crazy as what you experienced

[steveo]

We hunted a otc unit in Colorado for 1st rifle. Tons of camps and lots of 4 wheelers with guys heading 9 miles or more deep and setting up spike camps. We set up at the trailhead with lots of others. Every morning it sounded like a motocross event as hunters left the trail head. My partner shot his elk on Tues am about 300 yards from the 4 wheeler trail and within sight of the Trailhead. Elk get used to the human traffic all summer and have sly routes they use to escape the pressure. Find an area with a large opening backed up to a steep section and hunt the edge. I hunted the same general area and had a bull pass me before light enough to verify his points so I let him pass. You have to find where the elk move to escape the pressure.

[bowhunter15]

Having trouble getting the Youtube tags to work properly, but here's a link to the trip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NYmNftgDj0

[Elkduds]

Enjoyed the video, well done!

[cohunter14]

I enjoyed it as well! Keep in mind that some of the things you read don't necessarily apply to wilderness area, like getting 1/2 mile off of a road. That rule works great in non-wilderness areas, but every person who hunts a wilderness area is heading in with the idea of going in quite a ways. I would suggest looking into areas that are not considered 'wilderness' areas. You can find ways to get 3-6 miles back in and away from roads without going to a true wilderness area, and you will find a lot less hunters in those locations.