Cold At Night - HELP!

[Camo]

Howdy Guys,

I am starting to get my gear together for this seasons elk hunt in western Colorado. We are going to try a back packing trip into the back country, not far, about 7 to 10 miles. We are going on horseback so our weight is an issue. The past few times I have gone elk hunting we have camped in a pop-up camper with no heat. I have a Sierra Designs Zissou 23 degree DriDown sleeping bag. It weights 2 lbs. 3 oz. It has worked pretty good except each night about 2 to 4 in the morning I start getting cold. The temperature where we camp is below 30 and often times in the mid-20s. What clothing suggestions, or other light weight ideas, can you provide to supplement my bag? I hate getting cold, and I mean pretty cold for me, and I need to be proactive about solving this problem. This year I will be sleeping in a small two man light tent which has no insulating qualities. The elevation may be as high as 10,000 feet. Give me some good ideas on socks, booties, thermal underwear, etc. The big thing is always my feet and a little on my legs. If I can keep my feet, hands, and head warm, I am usually OK, not great but OK. This past year there was one night when I woke up shivering and I don't have anything else to add except put on my clothing which is usually dirty from the hiking and general outdoor use from several days out there. Also last year I did have a wool army blanket that I used and it helped but I was still cold so I need some real good ideas. I know the solution is out there and if anyone would know it will be a member of this site.

Thanks In Advance!

[Elkduds]

What kind of insulating pad R U using? If yours is adequate, consider putting a fleece blanket layer inside your bag. Or add a thin insulated sleeping bag around the outside of your current bag. Even wearing a warm beanie can improve sleeping warmth.

[WapitiTalk1]

Agree with Elkdud's points (ensure you have a good pad, sleep with a beenie, etc.). You may wish to consider one of the quality sleeping bag liners on the market. They are very lightweight and increase the warmth of your bag by 10-15 degrees. I have one and honestly, it makes my bag "too" warm for the majority of the SEPT archery season where I hunt in WA and ID (or MT). Here's a sample of one of these lightweight bag liners:

http://www.rei.com/product/705534/sea-t ... r#specsTab

[Elkduds]

That liner is a great idea, RJ. Have you checked out the silk sleeping bag liner @ REI?

[Camo]

Thanks guys,

I will look into the liners. I sleep with a beenie and I seldom get cold when I am out hunting. I do get cold on those nights in the mountains and as you guys know the time to deal with that is now because there is nothing you can do about it at 2:00 in the morning at 9,000 feet and it is a slight snow falling. I do have a 3.5 inch pad from REI that I use. Keep on sending the ideas.

[Miller1]

Throw a hot hands hand warmer in your bag.

[Lefty]

I do a lot of camping. So far since the first of the year I spent 31 nights in a tent/sleeping bag Ill have 50 nights by Christmas
Your not sleeping fine if your waking and being cold. I have a thin liner good for a few more degrees colder in a bag (walmart on sale $13.00), but tend to use it on hot nights. my heavy liner is good for 8-10 degrees(Grizzly Micro +40 Line $10.00 on sale butr I think it was $39.00 otherwise) .
Consider a big pair of over sized wool "hunting socks,.. like your grandpa wore, wear some fleece wader pants and a fleece shirt. A lightweight neck gator makes a huge difference and doesnt come off like a beanie. I wear a balaclava when below 10 degrees they dont come off

If your already wearing something beyond your underwear now you may want to consider a better bag.

As a scout master I use to worry about boys in bags. boys are small enough two cheap bags will work, some have heavy wool blankets ( wish I had one) that came from grandpas horse packing days. but a good blanket over your upper body can help too . I use a thick 'heavy fleece throw over my upper body and head (Kings $19.00)

If your 3 1/2 " pad is a light open cell-foam self-inflating type you may need better/more insulation, especially under a down bag. I have a 3" self inflating pads in cold weather I place 1/2 closed cell pad underneath my pad on cold ground ( on top would offer better insulation than air fill pad.)

I teach my scouts that they should be able to get up in the morning and change into their clothes without felling cold or uncomfortable or get up and pee and go back to bed and not take an hour to feel comfortable again. when campuing out of the scout trailer our scouts place a piece of carpet on the whole tent floor.

With a horse you shouldn't have any problem caring a few more pounds of quality sleeping gear. I would look at a heavy liner and two cheap walmart closed cell pads taped together first. Or sleep in fleece pants shirt and socks

Also read the link belowhttp://www.elknutforums.com/Hunting/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4829

[ferris bugler]

Get a another layer with a liner or bivy. A cheap option is the Sol emergency bivy. I like to layer my down jacket over my core when I go to sleep. This with a winter hat makes a huge difference. Also, For me its all about sleeping with minimal clothes on. Putting on another layer of long underwear isn't going to help. Your body needs to use it's core to heat it's extremities. If you are still getting cold get a bag with a lower temp rating. Just because it says its a 15 degree bag doesn't mean you will be comfortable at 15 degrees.

[foxvalley]

If you got horses,I would make room for a new tent with a wood stove. Cold can be miserable, but being cold and wet will drive you right out of the mtns.

[patdel]

Get an aluminum or stainless steel water bottle. Boil water before bed. Pour in bottle, stuff it in a sock and put it in your sleeping bag. Like the other guys said wear a stocking cap. Good luck. Shoot straight.

[Indian Summer]

I'm with FoxValley... take a real tent if you have horses. That and a wood stove will change everything.

Otherwise if I were you I'd be thinking about a new sleeping bag. It sounds like you have cold blood so I'd invest in a minus 30 and be done.

[Camo]

How much does a small wood stove weight? How much does a wall tent weight? I have never used one of these and don't much about them. What is a good source for these at a price that won't break the bank. Also anyone have a good recommendation on very warm wick away socks. Both brand name and source.

[dtrkyman]

smartwool socks are outstanding, I have a few pairs and they are at least 10 years old and good as new! Look on top of this page, wall tent shop has what you need, I am sure there are many other but this can give you an idea at least! Coolmax sock liners are nice as well!

[foxvalley]

I just picked up a new used alaknak tent 12x12 vestible,and wood stove this year, all at about half price at cabelas bargain cave.I had to shop around the country online,but half price is half price. Stove weighs about 75lbs.and also the tent about the same. I had to leave early last year as all my gear including my bag got really damp,however I will be warm as toast this year.

[Indian Summer]

How many hunters camo? Tent size depends on what you want to do with it. If you ever use it as a base camp most likely you'll want some space for a cook stove and small table. Weights from an 8 by 10 to a 15 by 18 vary from about 48 to 75 lbs.

Here's a link for really nice wood stoves: http://www.cylinderstoves.com/stoves-c- ... ecd646d9f3

The smallest, a Scout, weighs only 23 lbs. But a good all around model that will only need wood once during the night is the Outfitter which weighs 63 lbs. That would be my recommendation.

If you aren't familiar with wall tents by the sounds of what you're doing I'd get to know them right away. You'll be glad you did.

[Indian Summer]

Here is a 10 by 12. 10 wide. A palace for 2 or 3 guys. Remember bigger means more effort to heat. 10 wide is good for these 2 cots and a table to cook and eat on in the middle. if there were 3 guys we would put the table in the front corner opposite the wood stove and put the 3rd cot in between the other 2. or leave the table where it is and put the cot up front. If there were no table it would sleep 4 easily. The next size up would be a 12X14. In there you can put the 2 coats sideways across the back wall. It's a way bigger more versatile tent. A 14X16 is the Taj Mahal. lol

The Wall Tent Shop, a sponsor here, is where I get my tents. Really nice tents for lots of reasons AND the best price around.

[Indian Summer]

Like my coat hanger? A small piece of kindling wood hanging from a piece of bale twine makes a great one. Also good for pants and tie boot laces together drape them around the back of the twine. Hang up above the woodstove height for warm dry boots in the morning. One glove stuck on each end. A wall tent is a home away from home.

[Camo]

Thanks for the info guys. There are 3 for sure, and possibly 4, hunters on our trip. I have not done this hunt before but 2 guys in this group have done this several times in the past. They have always used the small popup tents, but I am with you guys on the wall tent and the stove. It looks like this is where we need to go. I will discuss with the guys and see if they will chip in the get this done. We are all working stiffs and tight on the budget, but I am truly concerned about the cold. I have hunted enough to know cold nights can ruin a great hunting trip. Is there a marketplace out there for used wall tents and stoves?

[Navesgane]

Not sure about online but maybe a local army/navy store

[Rockram]

The wool socks I use are from Redwing they are 85% merino wool and 15% lycra I believe. I'll take multiple pairs with me when hiking and camping. My regiment for bedtime is clean dry socks and foot powder. Crawl into the bag and place clothes into the foot of the bag. If I get cold in the night I just wiggle my feet into the clothing and I'm fine. I'll also carry an wool army blanket if it gets really cold. -30

[RockChucker30]

Integral Designs Hot Socks are awesome. That said, I sleep cold and normally want to beat the actual temps by 15-20 degrees with my bag rating. My WM 5 degree will do a lot more at 25 degrees than your 23 degree.

[jensenrw.2000]

A bivy bag will add 10-15 degrees warmth to your bag, inexpensive light weight option that has multiple uses.

[Camo]

Thanks for all the help guys. I have purchased a new -20 degree sleeping bag from BassPro Shop, a fleece sleeping bag liner, and a bivy bag. I am looking for some comfortable and not to bulky sleeping booties. I may not need all of this but I would rather be over prepared.

[Elkduds]

So you might not need that beanie...