What's Emotion in calling

[flystrait]

I see more and more people using the word emotion to describe their calling. What doe's that really mean?

[Rangerz]

I am sure someone with more experience with me will chime in, but think of it like talking to your kids or significant other. You can say hey and get no response, then you say heyyyyyyy a little more emphatically.

Same with a call. Start out with just a simple cow call and if no response try and get a little more desperate sounding. Depends on the situation you are in.

Check out Pauls (Elknuts Tips and Clips) on here. Lot of good info. Would also suggest his Playbook and DVD series. Some of the best info I've seen.

[Trophyhill]

If I read what Travis wrote correctly, emotion = tone. The manner in which you are saying what you're saying. You can be nonchalant, demanding, excitable, pleading etc with your calling. I think a lot of guys confuse tone with pitch.

[twinkieman]

For me, emotion means the attitude, that I am trying to project, any species, that I am calling to. When I want to sound like a pissed off bull, I think pissed off. A calf who can't locate mom, frantic. Herd talk, calm. In all my aggressive calling, I start on the low end of the scale of intensity, and move up as needed if I think I have to get more intense. I am sure others here will have better thoughts, great thread !

[Glacier Country]

Trophyhill ,I think this is the POST That you are referring to... Tone intensity and Pitch .... By Troy Bungay GLACIER COUNTRY HUNTING CALLS

Tone,Intensity and Pitch
by Glacier Country Hunting Calls » 07 27, 2014 • [Post 1]

Tone, Intensity, and Pitch.

I have been describing how I call in elk and teach elk calling to other elk hunters for a long time. So long ago I just started describing what I do, and how I go from one tone or pitch to another up the scale from low to high for bull sounds and high to low for cow sounds. I needed a way to convey what I was trying to relate to others.
When I started describing things in terms of Tone Intensity and Pitch, people seemed to pick up what I was relating a lot better.
So first I should mention that I think that all three are interrelated when it comes to speaking a language - whether it is English or one elk talking to another.
We have all heard the saying “ Don’t use that Tone with me!”
How much Emotion is used?
So lets use the word Hey for example… So you might say…
Hey. as in how are you? - a non threatening verbalization to get attention. Then there is an escalation of emotion with Hey Where are you guys. Or Hey dad check this out! More emotion more intensity and usually a higher pitch. Then there is an even higher escalation with more emotion, more intensity and an even higher pitch to anger, yelling ,screaming … with this version of Hey the intensity is threatening. You are demanding they back down or fight. These are only three versions of the scale and only one word “hey “ used to show the range of emotion the same word can convey. Of course there are many more than just three from a social Hey to Yelling and screaming , fists flying etc.

Pitch refers to the high or low frequency of the sound, Tone in musical terms refers more to the Emotion,
This is why Tone Intensity and Pitch are all relative to a conversation, or elk calling .
So without getting too technical...

So what you want to understand is that pitch is low notes to high notes and tone deals with how much Inflection and Emotion, is applied to the pitch. The intensity refers more to the loudness of the tones and pitches, in relation to the sounds as a whole.

Now lets put this into elk terms…
What bugle or cow call should I do in which situation to get the response I want from a bull? Or from a cow for that matter.
Well that depends upon what YOU want that elk to believe is happening in each situation.
So many of you are trying and hoping a bull will respond to your calls ….. But what you really want is for the ELK to REACT to your calls and give you an opportunity to harvest them.
Once you really understand that it changes how you approach calling … You don’t just bugle… you do a bugle with a certain MEASURE of Emotion. What Measure of Emotion are you trying to convey to convince a bull to React and come to you.
Glacier Country Hunting Calls
http://www.glaciercountryhuntingcalls.com
https://www.facebook.com/GlacierCountryHuntingCalls

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Posts: 213
Joined: 03 16, 2013
Location: Montana
First Name: Troy

[BrentLaBere]

Emotion is describing how you say it and not what you are saying. To me, its how the feelings are put into sounds.
Angry, Frustrated, Lonely.......
Can you really use emotion without feeling something? Needs to be the right mind set.

[ElkNut1]

X2 what Brent said! Keep it simple & to the point!

ElkNut1

[mongopino915]

When making any elk sound (a little exaggerated), I am an elk or a group of elk in my mind.

Emotion is putting meaning and feeling into the sound.

[Wapiti]

Yes emotion is best kept simple !! It just makes bull come unravelled and they can't help themselves. they just have to come over and have a look.

It is one thing to put emotion into your cow sounds but do not forget to also use emotion in your bugles and you'll see them get better and sound more realistic !!

Trav

[flystrait]

Great responses everyone. Is it safe to say then the emotion in ones calls is actually the depth in sound that can be created? I have heard several great answers and some not so. Breaking it down to even simpler terms Is depth or tones equals to emotion? Than what would pitch be?

[Wapiti]

Pitch would be when your out golfing and your ball hits a pine tree !! You pick it up and it's all sticky.......That's pitch !! LOL

Sorry I couldn't resist as it just happened last weekend !! That stuff does not come off !!

[WapitiTalk1]

Very good thread Craig. I'd say yes, depth of sounds (created by adding various types of voice, and, changing the way the reed emits sounds by dropping/raising the tongue against the pallet) is how we inject perceived emotion in our elk sounds. Perceived emotion can also be apparent in our sounds by the timing/rhythm/length (i.e., an excited cow sound, long winded regathering cow sound, a very short bull scream, or a brief nervous/popping grunt). I believe pitch is simply the range of notes (from low to high/high to low) similar to notes on a keyboard or in singing (la, La, LA, La, la). We use pitch in our attempt to realistically reproduce the octaves or notes of elk. Thoughts?

[flystrait]

Can you put emotion into raking as well?

[Heartwood]

Also, don't forget to use your own voice in the calls to add even more feeling and attitude. Estrus buzz, bugles with grunts, bugles with a growl at beginning or end etc. You can really add some realistic feeling into your calls with voice inflection. All experienced callers do this.

[flystrait]

So here is another question which one of these have more emotion to them #1 or #2? There is no right or wrong answer just your guy's opinion?

[ Play Quicktime file ] Test 1 19.m4a [ 268.29 KiB | Viewed 8151 times ]

[ Play Quicktime file ] Test 2 20.m4a [ 285.71 KiB | Viewed 8151 times ]

[ElkNut1]

Craig, putting "emotion" into raking & that only would be stretching ones imagination! (grin) But if you include specific sounds by a bull during this raking it could change ones view point! It's situational.

On your bull sounds with all the lip bawls & grunts they were all pretty much the same for the most part. If one stood out above the others by a slight margin it would be your 2nd bull sound in the first clip, he sounded more urgent than the rest of the two clips shared. I'd say if you shared a few creative bugles with chuckling & some with grunts then you could see a big difference between them. The calling you shared would mostly be experienced by real bulls collecting/gathering their cows or a bull trying to advertise himself to another bulls cows! Nice calling job!

ElkNut1

[Wapiti]

When I hear you talk about emotion in calling I automatically think mostly of cow sounds. Oh sure there is emotion in bugles but not like the emotions elk have when they are doing grunts and groans and moaning type sounds !! To me there's not much emotion in an all out lip bawl type bugle. It's just pure aggression !!

Now take cow sounds and there emotions. The wines and cries and dominating buzz sounds !! They have a hundred ways of saying the same thing !! Those dang women they say something and we have no choice but to listen. It's the same in elk talk..........the cows tell the bull what's going on !! Don't forget that ever !!

So when a cow say's let's go and she gets no reaction things change and yes her emotions come into play as she gets more aggressive.............she say's the same thing again with more emotion and things happen fast !!

That's my take on emotion.

Trav

[Gselkhunter]

When I talk about emotion in calling not only is it pitch and tone, you have to add in call structure or timing/rhythm. When a bull is bugling to condition his cows to his bugle the pitch structure is far different to warding off another bull. The vocalization is shorter, more intense and for lack of better phrasing a lot crisper in volume, tone and pitchto ward off the intruder. The amount of guttural sound increases. And this carries over into raking also, there is a huge difference between rubbing up an aspen and snapping a few small twigs or branches then an all out pine tree breaking temper tantrum.
The bigger trick to me than knowing what emotion in call is, is knowing when and how to use it.

[flystrait]

Thanks for the input guy's. I was looking to see what two clips people thought to have more emotion to them for what they were. Each clip was with different manufactures reeds and tubes with trying to replicate the exact same sounds with the exact same emotion put into them. I believe most people including myself look at emotion with Pitch, Tone and intensity. I like to call it depth of the sounds no matter the tone.

So can certain manufactures products help give you emotion to your calling with all else being equal? Air, tongue, and voice inflection?

[Gselkhunter]

So can certain manufactures products help give you emotion to your calling with all else being equal? Air, tongue, and voice inflection?

This should open up a can of worms.
If all is truly equal no. If you change reed configuration[single/double/triple] you can get more volume with more reeds but that isn't all there is to emotion in calling. Even with that all reeds are not built the same so equal doesn't really apply.
If I am looking for an answer from a bull to locate him I won't be calling the same way as I would if I was trying to aggravate him or better yet start a war for his cows. The products I use allow me to change up the way I call to be as flexible as I can be with my calling to cover all the bases I want to cover. There are calls out there I can't do that with but that will change from person to person.
So I believe the answer is to find a call that allows you the most flexibility with your calling style or capability.

[Wapiti]

Great answer Gselkhunter !!

I agree 100 %. My answer is no as well. It's all in the person running the call period.

Trav

[flystrait]

Great answer Gselkhunter !!

I agree 100 %. My answer is no as well. It's all in the person running the call period.

Trav

Thanks Travis! Can you share some bull sounds for us with the emotion you have spoke about. It would be fantanstic for a manufacture to share what they know!

Thanks in advance.

Craig

[Wapiti]

Sure can as we have a CD and DVD coming out and we cover all that on there. We'll post little clips here and there as we get close to bring them out !! Thanks for asking.

The CD and DVD will also be in combo packs available for purchase as well.

We feel there is no better way to practice than being in your truck driving and calling along to a CD. Your not annoying the wife or anyone else for that matter !!

Hope that helps

Trav

[flystrait]

Sure can as we have a CD and DVD coming out and we cover all that on there. We'll post little clips here and there as we get close to bring them out !! Thanks for asking.

The CD and DVD will also be in combo packs available for purchase as well.

We feel there is no better way to practice than being in your truck driving and calling along to a CD. Your not annoying the wife or anyone else for that matter !!

Hope that helps

Trav

Thanks Travis looking forward to it. In the meantime I put a little clip together on my phone showing the emotion of different bugles and it's FREE. Pardon the sound as it is not that great from the phone. I used a Glacier Country "Secret Weapon" for the bugles.

[ Play Quicktime file ] Emotion 23.m4a [ 957.17 KiB | Viewed 7983 times ]

[Trophyhill]

Trophyhill ,I think this is the POST That you are referring to... Tone intensity and Pitch .... By Troy Bungay GLACIER COUNTRY HUNTING CALLS

Tone,Intensity and Pitch
by Glacier Country Hunting Calls » 07 27, 2014 • [Post 1]

Tone, Intensity, and Pitch.

I have been describing how I call in elk and teach elk calling to other elk hunters for a long time. So long ago I just started describing what I do, and how I go from one tone or pitch to another up the scale from low to high for bull sounds and high to low for cow sounds. I needed a way to convey what I was trying to relate to others.
When I started describing things in terms of Tone Intensity and Pitch, people seemed to pick up what I was relating a lot better.
So first I should mention that I think that all three are interrelated when it comes to speaking a language - whether it is English or one elk talking to another.
We have all heard the saying “ Don’t use that Tone with me!”
How much Emotion is used?
So lets use the word Hey for example… So you might say…
Hey. as in how are you? - a non threatening verbalization to get attention. Then there is an escalation of emotion with Hey Where are you guys. Or Hey dad check this out! More emotion more intensity and usually a higher pitch. Then there is an even higher escalation with more emotion, more intensity and an even higher pitch to anger, yelling ,screaming … with this version of Hey the intensity is threatening. You are demanding they back down or fight. These are only three versions of the scale and only one word “hey “ used to show the range of emotion the same word can convey. Of course there are many more than just three from a social Hey to Yelling and screaming , fists flying etc.

Pitch refers to the high or low frequency of the sound, Tone in musical terms refers more to the Emotion,
This is why Tone Intensity and Pitch are all relative to a conversation, or elk calling .
So without getting too technical...

So what you want to understand is that pitch is low notes to high notes and tone deals with how much Inflection and Emotion, is applied to the pitch. The intensity refers more to the loudness of the tones and pitches, in relation to the sounds as a whole.

Now lets put this into elk terms…
What bugle or cow call should I do in which situation to get the response I want from a bull? Or from a cow for that matter.
Well that depends upon what YOU want that elk to believe is happening in each situation.
So many of you are trying and hoping a bull will respond to your calls ….. But what you really want is for the ELK to REACT to your calls and give you an opportunity to harvest them.
Once you really understand that it changes how you approach calling … You don’t just bugle… you do a bugle with a certain MEASURE of Emotion. What Measure of Emotion are you trying to convey to convince a bull to React and come to you.
Glacier Country Hunting Calls
http://www.glaciercountryhuntingcalls.com
https://www.facebook.com/GlacierCountryHuntingCalls

Glacier Country
Forum Sponsor

Posts: 213
Joined: 03 16, 2013
Location: Montana
First Name: Troy

Yes this was the thread I was referring to. My bad.