Is There A Right Time TO Draw in This Scenario?

[Trophyhill]

how could this hunter have killed this bull?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pOok4KQMpqU

[WapitiTalk1]

The guy can't call well (blowing some internal reed train wreck of a bugle, poorly), raking brush like he's brushing a gnat off his hot dog, talking too much "for the camera", and, he set his client up at the edge of a meadow (not smart). Private land hunt? Nice bull though.

[under H2O hunter]

The guy can't call well (blowing some internal reed train wreck of a bugle, poorly), raking brush like he's brushing a gnat off his hot dog, talking too much "for the camera", and, he set his client up at the edge of a meadow (not smart). Private land hunt? Nice bull though.

Regardless if this guy can't call or not That bull is amazing and I think the answer to the question is that the shooter should of drew when the bull spooked. A quick cow call got him to stop at an easy distance and quartered away. This is a scenario we have all faced regardless of size of animal or on private land or how bad of a call we have made. I have called some sick bulls in even when my sound was horrible. Usually doesn't always happen but it does still happen. Wouldn't you agree?

[Wapitibob]

Just about the worst possible setup unless you're Casper the ghost. He should have been 100 yards back in the trees and his caller 200 behind him. He had no chance the second that cow popped over the hill.
Obviously been watching too many ranch hunts on DVD.
To critique the situation, I think the shooter fell into the trap that gets most callers in a team situation; "I need to see the bull". His setup put nothing but blue sky between him and the elk. No chance to move to get a better shooting lane, no chance to draw, just a bad setup all around. A lot of bulls would have hung up when they could see over the hill. My opinion, get back in the trees, make the bull come into the fringe to see you, and have the caller back 200 yards so the bull will be close enough for a shot if he hangs up waiting for a glance at the other bull.

[a3dhunter]

Should have slowly drawn while bull was walking, right before where the bull stopped.

He would have looked up maybe at the movement, maybe even stopped, but would have offered the shot. Even if he spooked a little, he would have stopped for a look back like he did later.

Either way, take the shot while he's trying to figure out what you are.

[ElkNut1]

I did not see anywhere where the hunter could have drawn in that clip up to the point of the bull leaving. Somebody obviously moved & the bull caught the movement, wind was not a factor as the cow had already slipped by with no issue. Patience was the key here, the hunter needed to let the bull go by him just enough so the bull could not catch movement peripherally. There was a shot opportunity in the makings but everyone has to do their part & keep perfectly still. The caller was far enough back in my opinion since the cow slipped by already & the bull was well on his way following her until hunter or cameraman blew it with movement, you must stay rock solid until the split second comes that you can now draw & shoot! (grin) Great bull!

ElkNut1

[poisonarrow]

You know who is talking, but------ this is where a bow mounted decoy would have made the difference.

[tdiesel]

with nothing between you and the bull you better draw first chance you get. hard to tell with cameras how far the bull was when he stopped but I would have drawn when he put his head down to eat or if I missed that maybe when he bugles. from when he put his head down it was about 30 seconds to where the bull stopped I can hold that long and shoot good out to 40 yrds roughly. again better set up wouldn't make it this hard.

[Wyo67]

Agree with everyone who said there was no place for him to draw where he was at. Even if he would have tried, he was too far back into the tree he was using for cover and would have caused it to move to when he went to draw.

To answer the question, how he could have killed this bull... At the 1:09 mark the cameraman remarks that he's getting closer. With the editing of the clip, we have no idea how much time elapsed between when he said that and when the cow popped over the ridge. In my opinion, at that point they should have moved to the shooters left so that he could have drawn as the bull came through those dead trees. They knew which direction he was coming from and should have positioned themselves better to take advantage of available cover in order to draw the bow.

[Gselkhunter]

What a blown set up. The bull was over the edge, head for the cut so there was less open area. And let me do the calling.

[easeup]

without a solid hunting partner....this is the reason many of us hunt solo. Somebody moved or tried something foolish.
I've been there a few times ( not with a Bullwinkle like that in front of me) and it makes one burn inside not to say something after the fact about the issue too.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrr! We worked hard to make a chance for a bull and it was probably lost over someone moving around (twice!).

I don't see a draw chance either for a good shot.

[Trophyhill]

The guy can't call well (blowing some internal reed train wreck of a bugle, poorly), raking brush like he's brushing a gnat off his hot dog, talking too much "for the camera", and, he set his client up at the edge of a meadow (not smart). Private land hunt? Nice bull though.

Regardless if this guy can't call or not That bull is amazing and I think the answer to the question is that the shooter should of drew when the bull spooked. A quick cow call got him to stop at an easy distance and quartered away. This is a scenario we have all faced regardless of size of animal or on private land or how bad of a call we have made. I have called some sick bulls in even when my sound was horrible. Usually doesn't always happen but it does still happen. Wouldn't you agree?

I agree. When that bull put his head down on his approach is when the hunter should have drawn his bow. Or perhaps even before the bull came into view even? At any rate an elk can show up quickly and we have to be ready to adapt immediately.

[WapitiTalk1]

The guy can't call well (blowing some internal reed train wreck of a bugle, poorly), raking brush like he's brushing a gnat off his hot dog, talking too much "for the camera", and, he set his client up at the edge of a meadow (not smart). Private land hunt? Nice bull though.

Regardless if this guy can't call or not That bull is amazing and I think the answer to the question is that the shooter should of drew when the bull spooked. A quick cow call got him to stop at an easy distance and quartered away. This is a scenario we have all faced regardless of size of animal or on private land or how bad of a call we have made. I have called some sick bulls in even when my sound was horrible. Usually doesn't always happen but it does still happen. Wouldn't you agree?

I agree. When that bull put his head down on his approach is when the hunter should have drawn his bow. Or perhaps even before the bull came into view even? At any rate an elk can show up quickly and we have to be ready to adapt immediately.

Sorry guys, was having a bad hair day I guess ... (wait, I don't have much hair)... It was a bad setup though

[Trophyhill]

The guy can't call well (blowing some internal reed train wreck of a bugle, poorly), raking brush like he's brushing a gnat off his hot dog, talking too much "for the camera", and, he set his client up at the edge of a meadow (not smart). Private land hunt? Nice bull though.

Regardless if this guy can't call or not That bull is amazing and I think the answer to the question is that the shooter should of drew when the bull spooked. A quick cow call got him to stop at an easy distance and quartered away. This is a scenario we have all faced regardless of size of animal or on private land or how bad of a call we have made. I have called some sick bulls in even when my sound was horrible. Usually doesn't always happen but it does still happen. Wouldn't you agree?

I agree. When that bull put his head down on his approach is when the hunter should have drawn his bow. Or perhaps even before the bull came into view even? At any rate an elk can show up quickly and we have to be ready to adapt immediately.

Sorry guys, was having a bad hair day I guess ... (wait, I don't have much hair)... It was a bad setup though

No sweat Rory. Here's what I'm getting at. We've all been victim of a bad set up at the worst possible time......"The Moment of Elk Truth" so the goal is to adapt quickly and decisively when odds are stacked against us. I remember something BobMuley said once. I'll paraphrase "I'm always looking for a path into the vitals". That can include opening yourself up for a "path to the vitals" when you have to act quickly.

[easeup]

I watched it again because I only remembered a quartering to you shot at a not so close distance. but sure enough....he turned to present a very brief broadside shot.

that would be tough to draw and anchor and execute a good shot in that short amount of time....but I now agree with you it can be done.

[Heartwood]

Given what the shooter had to work with, i think a well timed popping grunt as the bull turned to exit could have stopped him for a shot. I'm assuming the bull was close enough for a shot when he turned but hard to tell from the camera view. I agree with others that the set up was much to open.

[Trophyhill]

Given what the shooter had to work with, i think a well timed popping grunt as the bull turned to exit could have stopped him for a shot. I'm assuming the bull was close enough for a shot when he turned but hard to tell from the camera view. I agree with others that the set up was much to open.

In this situation what do you have to lose? A nervous grunt as you draw your bow might just give you the time needed to pull it off. If you do nothing you have no chance as we saw in the video.

[Gselkhunter]

Given what the shooter had to work with, i think a well timed popping grunt as the bull turned to exit could have stopped him for a shot. I'm assuming the bull was close enough for a shot when he turned but hard to tell from the camera view. I agree with others that the set up was much to open.

In this situation what do you have to lose? A nervous grunt as you draw your bow might just give you the time needed to pull it off. If you do nothing you have no chance as we saw in the video.

OK David, why would you have stayed in that situation to start with? The bull is over the edge, the cow is going to be in a horrid spot, the whole thing is set up for failure! I would never have set up there to start with.

[Trophyhill]

Given what the shooter had to work with, i think a well timed popping grunt as the bull turned to exit could have stopped him for a shot. I'm assuming the bull was close enough for a shot when he turned but hard to tell from the camera view. I agree with others that the set up was much to open.

In this situation what do you have to lose? A nervous grunt as you draw your bow might just give you the time needed to pull it off. If you do nothing you have no chance as we saw in the video.

OK David, why would you have stayed in that situation to start with? The bull is over the edge, the cow is going to be in a horrid spot, the whole thing is set up for failure! I would never have set up there to start with.

I've become quite accustomed to calling and moving these last couple years so hopefully I could have been in position to kill that bull as he came over the top or maybe even met him on the other side before he ever got into the open.

[elkmtngear]

Hard to tell which way the wind was blowing, but I agree with others that it was not the best place to set up for that bull. Shooter should have been off toward the bull from the caller.

Not sure what the yardage was when the bull finally stopped, but the shooter could have possible drawn when the bull was running off, and took a quartered away shot when he stopped.

I think it was a failure of the cameraman/ caller as well. That bull obviously saw something he didn't like, and bugged out...and I doubt if he saw the shooter.

[twinkieman]

Horrible setup! The only thing I see was as Heartwood said, nervous grunt as the bull turned. I'd get rid of the camera man as well.