Sound in the woods

[Gselkhunter]

David's "Bad Calling" thread brings up some questions from me. Why is it so many guys can't tell the difference between an elk and a hunter bugling. The sounds are nothing alike. I wish I could match the sound of an elk. I have worked very hard at it for years!
An elk's bugle[even the ugly ones] are so crisp yet hollow, sounding so surreal that it will make the hair stand up on the back of your neck. The air rushing across ivory vs latex from the chest of an animal that is 3X a human is so penetrating that I am still awed by it.
So what is it that confuses you? Sound in timber, the wind, what? I have been in deep cuts at timberline with a hunter on one side and an elk on the other and as the sound carries out over the valley the elks voice haunts the soul. The hunter, not so much.

[mongopino915]

There are a few elk callers out there are about as elk authentic as a human can be but far and few.

I have not mistaken a human made sound to be the real deal but have mistaken the real deal to be human made.

There are some pretty crappy sounding bulls out there.

[Trophyhill]

Fooling A human is much easier than fooling an elk. Elk are very good at surviving. We are in their house and it's life or death daily for elk. Often times humans hear what they want to hear. We will live to hunt another day when we get fooled. An elk? Maybe, maybe not.

[ElkNut1]

It's definitely easier to tell the difference from a real bull to a hunter when you have the luxury of hearing both at the same time. Your odds are quite high picking out the real mccoy! Some of the tougher spots to pick out a real bull are distance or just one bugle that has caught you off guard from a distance. I've also noticed that some of the younger bulls can be quite squeally & they too can make you hesitate at times if they are the real deal or a hunter. When it comes to the classic bugle from a mature bull there's not much hesitation there at all as it becomes quite obvious. All in all I'd venture a guess & say I can be correct in picking out the real bull 95% of the time, this comes from hearing thousands of bugles over the years. As far as hunters are concerned most are predictable in their calling methods!

ElkNut1

[Gselkhunter]

Not only that Paul the cadence of the call is wrong.
mongopino915 if you had the best caller in the world next to a real elk calling I don't think you could make that statement. But I now know I could call you in.

[WapitiTalk1]

Good thread! We ran something like this a while back but can't remember the specifics.... old timer's disease kicking in. I know when I'm working an elk and in the zone, my sounds are much more realistic than when I practice or do the post em up threads. I don't pretend to be a great caller but have in fact (yes, it's crappy and I should not do it) called more than a few hunters in (I guess I was upset that they found their way into "my" spot). Back to GS's original post.... yes, personally, I can almost always tell when it's a human vs an elk. A lot of it is location and time of day but much of it is just the purity of the sound, and timing in response to what I'm doing. Most hunters cannot achieve that natural, haunting sound of an elk bugle and the sound that oftentimes accompany it (chuckles, grunts, etc., etc.). If GS ever calls me in, I'm gonna beat feet back to his camp (I know I'm faster than him) and replace his fine scotch with Jim Beam or some other rotgut bourbon . I'll show him

[elk-n-walleye]

Not only that Paul the cadence of the call is wrong.
mongopino915 if you had the best caller in the world next to a real elk calling I don't think you could make that statement. But I now know I could call you in.

Check his statement again... He said he has not mistaken a human for an Elk but has mistaken a crappy sounding elk for a human. So you could not call him in.

I've hunted elk since I was a teen but last year was my first year hunting in Sept. and actually hearing elk. Unfortunately they were relatively quiet so I didn't get as many experiences hearing them as I would have liked. Each morning I would hike out into the woods and at shooting light I would find a place to send out a location bugle and each morning I would get back 2, 3, 4 responses. From those distant responses to my location bugle there was no earth shaking or adrenaline inducing tones that made it obvious that it was an bull responding and not a hunter. They all sounded pretty similar and pretty unremarkable. However I did chase some of those distant responses and did find the source, bulls. And yes, the times I heard those bulls up close (within a few hundred yds ) it was obvious an elk was talking.

I hope to get a better sampling of the bugles and screams and chuckling of bull elk this Sept! Can't wait!

[Gselkhunter]

Not only that Paul the cadence of the call is wrong.
mongopino915 if you had the best caller in the world next to a real elk calling I don't think you could make that statement. But I now know I could call you in.

Check his statement again... He said he has not mistaken a human for an Elk but has mistaken a crappy sounding elk for a human. So you could not call him in.

I've hunted elk since I was a teen but last year was my first year hunting in Sept. and actually hearing elk. Unfortunately they were relatively quiet so I didn't get as many experiences hearing them as I would have liked. Each morning I would hike out into the woods and at shooting light I would find a place to send out a location bugle and each morning I would get back 2, 3, 4 responses. From those distant responses to my location bugle there was no earth shaking or adrenaline inducing tones that made it obvious that it was an bull responding and not a hunter. They all sounded pretty similar and pretty unremarkable. However I did chase some of those distant responses and did find the source, bulls. And yes, the times I heard those bulls up close (within a few hundred yds ) it was obvious an elk was talking.

I hope to get a better sampling of the bugles and screams and chuckling of bull elk this Sept! Can't wait!

Pretty sure of yourself for one Sept.

[flystrait]

David's "Bad Calling" thread brings up some questions from me. Why is it so many guys can't tell the difference between an elk and a hunter bugling. The sounds are nothing alike. I wish I could match the sound of an elk. I have worked very hard at it for years!
An elk's bugle[even the ugly ones] are so crisp yet hollow, sounding so surreal that it will make the hair stand up on the back of your neck. The air rushing across ivory vs latex from the chest of an animal that is 3X a human is so penetrating that I am still awed by it.
So what is it that confuses you? Sound in timber, the wind, what? I have been in deep cuts at timberline with a hunter on one side and an elk on the other and as the sound carries out over the valley the elks voice haunts the soul. The hunter, not so much.

I agree with you Greg, I call it the depth of the sound, from an elk it is unmatched. I think a lot of hunters get fooled because of several things IMO. One is they put so much pressure on them selves when they hear a bugle they believe it must be an elk being from the location its coming from " NO WAY THERE ANY HUNTERS IN THIS FAR" etc. Some people also don't hear things the same, example (being tone deaf) it could be different tones for different people high, low or mid tones. After ones experience with multiple bulls people may be able to dissect the bugle between cadence, volume, types of sounds etc. to be able to determine if it may be another hunter. In my experience most people don't have enough encounters between further away and up-close with many bulls a year to gain the experience to dissect the bugle to that level, and they may think why take a chance and walk away if they are not sure. This is just some of my thoughts not to stir the pot or directed to anyone personally.

Craig

[ferris bugler]

I have been fooled by elk making bad calls. I would have sworn it was a hunter because it sounded like a call made from a reed. Next thing I knew there was an elk in my lap and I wasn't ready. I have good hearing and almost always can tell the difference between the two, but that made for a good laugh.

[elk-n-walleye]

I am pretty sure that I can find elk most days of the week when I'm out there, because I do and I did last Sept. Whether it is do to the amount of ground I cover or as I continue to learn and improve my calling skills and recognizing the calls elk make (which will come with more Sept hunts, I agree). One of the goals of this forum and Paul's educational material is to help us hunters that are just beginning or transitioning to hunting Sept is to shorten that learning curve.

I was simply defending mongo's ability to differentiate elk from human and describing my experience with hearing elk last Sept.

[a3dhunter]

The thing that confuses me most often is I wasn't listening for a response. It's the elk call out of nowhere when I've been walking or digging in my pack for something, that makes me stop and ask myself what I just heard. Distance plays a big part in that.
I've learned in the few years I've hunted to be prepared for every call to be from an actual elk, and if it's a hunter then whistle and wave at them, and smile when they come in.

When calling from a setup it seems much easier to identify because you're already listening for a response.

[spookinelk]

Got fooled by an elk that sounded like one of those old carlton bugles with the hard reed and the skinny tube, It was muzzleloader season and I thought for sure I was calling in a guy with a gun. Started moving trying to spot the hunter coming in and got busted by a pretty nice bull at @40 yards. Since then I always try to make myself assume that the bugles are coming from a bull.

[Trophyhill]

The thing that confuses me most often is I wasn't listening for a response. It's the elk call out of nowhere when I've been walking or digging in my pack for something, that makes me stop and ask myself what I just heard. Distance plays a big part in that.
I've learned in the few years I've hunted to be prepared for every call to be from an actual elk, and if it's a hunter then whistle and wave at them, and smile when they come in.

When calling from a setup it seems much easier to identify because you're already listening for a response.

I think Glacier Country summed it up perfectly in his "tone, pitch, intensity" thread. What he's talking about there doesn't only apply to calling but more importantly the elk themselves. Gregg and I have talked about this numerous times. Elk reach certain pitches, tones and intensity levels for specific reasons. Knowing why an elk is where he's at, doing what he's doing, going where he's going etc can help put those sounds into context that seem to come out of nowhere suddenly as well.

[ElkNut1]

a3dhunter, simply put, how frequent is the bugling that you are hearing? This is the key to a bull giving a lazy bugle or is he becoming more demanding or frustrated with a situation. More bugling generally means more intensity in getting their message across. Too, a huge piece of the puzzle is the time of the day you are hearing bugling, this will help to determine where he most likely is? Bedding, feeding or transition to or from these areas. Putting these things together will help evaluate his location & if he's on the move or where he wants to be.

ElkNut1

[Lefty]

So far I cant tell the difference between a bull and a good sounding human I must not have a fine" ear"

[Trophyhill]

So far I cant tell the difference between a bull and a good sounding human I must not have a fine" ear"

This may help

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tOEj4xVKN38

[Swede]

I think this is a good question and some good responses. The many fake elk out that can be discerned by the human ear, which is much less capable than an elk's, is why in many places elk are so well educated. There are some very good callers out in the forest also. I would not say I can hear the difference 95% of the time, but most of the time it is obvious. As stated before it is as much a matter of timing and sequence as sound quality. I think one of the big reasons I can be fooled, by a good caller, is because the forest environment modifies the sound by the time I hear it. Having real elk running around makes me think I am hearing elk, even though a human may be involved too. That may be a psychological factor. I have heard humans make elk sounds that I did not think possible until it was proven to me. When in doubt expect an elk. Real elk make lousy calls, and fake elk make good ones.

[brun]

I think most of the time you have a good idea what you are hearing because of the location, timing, cadence, etc., but it's not always possible to tell just by sound alone. I have heard some really weird and what I would have called terrible bugles turn out to be elk. There are many different voices out there. I have also had the opportunity to hunt with several calling champions, including one multiple time world champion, and although the sounds they made were very impressive, I don't think most of these guys were particularly effective at actually calling in bulls. In my experience the guys who sound really good call too much, it's fun and they sound good so they like to call, but it's not always the smartest tactic.

[Trophyhill]

a3dhunter, simply put, how frequent is the bugling that you are hearing? This is the key to a bull giving a lazy bugle or is he becoming more demanding or frustrated with a situation. More bugling generally means more intensity in getting their message across. Too, a huge piece of the puzzle is the time of the day you are hearing bugling, this will help to determine where he most likely is? Bedding, feeding or transition to or from these areas. Putting these things together will help evaluate his location & if he's on the move or where he wants to be.

ElkNut1

I've grown to love that "lazy bugle" after hearing it every year. That bugle has taught me patience. When I hear that I know I found the bedding area and if I time my calls just right can get them talking when it's "go time"

[Wapiti]

I also have been fooled !! One year I had a buddy out with me and we not long into our hunt when we heard the most weak and pathetic bugle. I clearly remember saying to my buddy to crouch down into the tall grass on the edge of the line and let's call in this hunter !! So we waited and cow called him right in and all of a sudden the hunter stepped out of the bush 15 yards in front of us !! Only it was no hunter is was a real live 3x4 elk !!!

To this day I never take any bugles for granted !!

[WapitiTalk1]

I also have been fooled !! One year I had a buddy out with me and we not long into our hunt when we heard the most weak and pathetic bugle. I clearly remember saying to my buddy to crouch down into the tall grass on the edge of the line and let's call in this hunter !! So we waited and cow called him right in and all of a sudden the hunter stepped out of the bush 15 yards in front of us !! Only it was no hunter is was a real live 3x4 elk !!!

To this day I never take any bugles for granted !!

Yikes, been there Trav. Makes a guy feel kind of sheepish Gotta love them goofy sounding bulls.