The Chess Match!

[ElkNut1]

Here's a real life scenario that we've come across now & then & is tough to get a handle on if you've not had much experience with with this type encounter! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


You're heading into a spot that has served you well in the past, you're 3/4 mile from rig & hear a bull bugle 1/2 mile or so away & can tell he's on a familiar bench, this bench is open in areas just enough to find a game trail here & there to slip through all the chaparral brush & downfall from years of rough winters & burns. You smile & move towards him without calling back, it will take you 20 minutes to cover the distance. The bull is cooperating by bugling on his own every few minutes giving you the needed spot he is in. You get to within 100yds away but still cannot see him because of the denseness of the 10' high chaparral brush. You want to slip closer without calling & give yourself away since he's vocal enough on his own. As you slip closer a 2nd bull bugles above the two of you aprox 200yds above the bench you're both on & the 1st bull you've been slipping in on races up towards him, you say crap!! This mtn he's heading up tops out at 1/2 mile & 1200" higher than you are with few to no openings larger than a 1/2 acre with 3 more benches before hitting the top!

1st, why was this bull bugling every few minutes? 2nd why did this bull race towards the 2nd bull? What's your next move? The chess match has begun! (grin)

ElkNut1

[Olydog09]

I'll take a stab at this. The first bull is a satellite that is advertising trying to call cows his way. The second bull is the herd bull and the satellite is racing towards him so he can try to cut out a cow. I will try to call the satellite bull with some soft mews and maybe an estrus call. If this didnt work I might try raking a tree in case I misinterpreted it and this elk is looking for a scrap. If that fails as well. I make my way silently to the top until I can pinpoint where these two bulls are and regroup with a different plan.

[JPD350]

Your probably right Olydog!
let's just throw another thought out there
Maybe the first bull that was bugling had his own cows nearby and heard some cows up the hill and was calling for them to come on over and join him and the bull up the hill came to the herd bull's bugles and he is the satellite bull. Once the herd bull heard the Sat bull's bugle he immediately charged up the hill to get between the cows and challenging bull. I have often seen heard bulls run and block challenging bulls from the cows and if this was the case I would have tried to slip close or between the bulls and cows and let off a challenge bugle and the herd bull would have come racing back towards the cows.

No matter what I would have been wanting to come in from the side or higher than the shelf and not from below

[under H2O hunter]

A little more info may be needed here to get this one right. Is it pre-rut, peak rut, or post rut? My guess is that the bull you were sneaking in on is the larger bull from the fact that smaller bulls don't usually like to go after another bull that is above them unless they feel they are the more dominant bull. He could of been bugling as much as he was because he was sounding out challenge bugles, so when he got a response he took off. My plan would be to asses the situation right then and there. Meaning, is this the only elk that are talking? The terrain is harsh so is it worth the energy to climb up the hill and chase a bull maybe two bulls that are pretty mobile and willing to cover ground? If I have heard or seen other elk on my level or lower I prefer to hunt on the same level. I never like to be hiking up steep hills trying to stalk personally. Lets say that these elk are the only ones we have heard and that we are near the end of our hunt. I am chasing these elk all day long. I would try and get on their level and get the wind in my favor then make some weak smaller bull bugles maybe mix in a cow here or there just to represent that I have something for one of these bulls to take from me.

[easeup]

with what I have been told on this play is the first bull is the man and he is parading is stuff in front of the ladies and telling them what a fine guy he is.
the second intruder bull is sneaking in to get some action from above and the first bull is saying no get out. And to make sure, he went up the hill to throw the first punch. My guess is the ladies are still on the first bench milling around.
My suggestion is stay silent and cut the distance on that bench. One of those bulls will be coming back down to the first bench in short order to pick up the girls.
Keep the wind right and look for the bulls return from above you. you can play the cards when he does or just shoot him unannounced if he passes by you.
Oh I wished I were there now!

[ElkNut1]

All great answers & all could be true depending on the encounter! You guys have really impressed me with the the way you have thought this out, well done! I hope many of the readers here especially the newer elk hunters take to heart all the evaluation you've shared because as I mentioned all could be correct in the right scenario!

I will now add that the 1st bull that was bugling was the herd bull! He was Advertising himself to any additional cows that were in the area, this is why he held his ground for so long & called so frequently, this gives other cows in the area if they so desired to make their way over to him. In this case this herd bulls cows were above him on two benches up (as I found out an hour later-grin) The 2nd bull that chimed in was indeed calling cows his way & a satellite, the herd bull took offense to this & raced towards him even though I bugled to him as close as I was once I heard the 2nd bull bugle. He did respond to me but I was not the bull that he was concerned with as I was several hundred yards below his cows. The bull above received all of his attention in this case! I only needed a few minutes more slipping in & I believe I could have taken him silently on my part. This didn't happen so I did the next best thing, I made my way towards the two bugling bulls as they pushed up the mtn.

Saying the mtn was harsh was an understatement, it took me forever to negotiate the downfall & 10" of snow that was on the ground on Sept 21st. I was not in the giving up mood, I did my darnedest to meet them at the top as I knew where the elk like to bed here. On my way I cut tracks of around 20 different cows, all the elk headed up to the area I had figured they would, guys this is tough unforgiving country & rough & steep as elk country comes. The snow was a huge hurdle to overcome as well because of the unseen speed sticks under the snow!

I've now made it close to the top & it's noon, 4 different bulls have bugled & I'm within 175yds of the herd bull, he's on the bench just above me, I haven't seen an elk yet because of the thick undergrowth conditions. I've found a great setup spot as it's extremely difficult to cut the distance fear of being spotted or heard because of the unsuitable conditions & downfall, the wind is favorable & all elk are in bedding area. What should I do now?

ElkNut1

[patdel]

Soft cow call. If he bugles, cut him off with a challenge. Move downwind a little and shoot him when he comes stomping in. ??

[Olydog09]

Well it is noon and the elk are on a bench where you know they like to bed. The wind is in your favor. Pull out your lunch and wait. Hopefully in the late afternoon they will make their way back down to feed. And you will be waiting. If they decide to move in a different direction the bull will most likely be bugling again and you can readjust and go after him if the time and terrain allows.

[easeup]

OK.....I like this stuff.

Here is my take.....it seems I am too far out to challenge him and I wish I were 75 - 100 yds closer. But the storyline is it is too dangerous to move up. I have infinite patience to wait them out. But I say no to that option. I guess it is because there have been so many times in the past when the encounter seemed to be going great and then the wind just swirled on me and everything goes wrong in a hurry. The wind is the last thing that I am going to bet on in nearly every encounter meaning I am betting it will change eventually just enough to ruin the play. So lets make something happen.
I figure that because of the climb up and deadfalls I am soaked with sweat at this point and tired. Lets take 15 min to rest watch and listen.
A gentle cow call here and there should get me some action in the next 1/2 hr. It will be one of the satellite bulls that come in but I will shoot him. Trophyhill is waiting on the herd bull so he is OK with me taking the younger bull.

[WapitiTalk1]

I like Easeup's plan in this stage of the encounter. Why? Because that's what I would do almost to the T. I have the wind at this point, it appears that I have not been detected, and.... it' neither a good idea to move in any closer (fear of being heard or spotted) or to wait too long (not sure how long it will be until the wind is not my friend). The herd bull/cows, and, several satellites are somewhat settling in (static positions) to their bedding area and there are a bunch of eyes, ears, and noses on high alert. You mentioned you have a good setup at this point, and, obviously competition for cows is high in this area. I'm nocking an arrow and using very soft, pleading cow sounds three/four times for a minute, thrown over my shoulder, directed a bit away from my position, then sit, watch, listen, and be ready to draw as the bull comes into view. Reed is in my mouth ready to spit out a nervous grunt. Wait a few minutes and repeat. I'm not going to be lured into moving considering the terrain when big bullwinkle sounds off (I'm sitting tight for a reason, with a plan, so am not going to change at this point). Patience will probably pay off with one of the bulls coming in to the soft call calls to ask the unseen "cow" for a date.

[twinkieman]

At 175 yards, it is probably too far to challenge the herd bull, and drag him out of his bed. A little more info, am I only interested in the herd bull, or will one of the satellites do. I feel that with a few exited cow calls, and maybe a few whines one of the satellites will show up. I am going to stay put after I call ( due to conditions that don't allow easy relocation), and when that satellite bull comes in for a look, I am going to pay special attention for a place to shoot him as he leaves. After he comes in, looks around, sees no cow, and decides to go back where he came from, I am going to give a nervous grunt when he hits one of those aforementioned places to shoot, I will release my arrow. The bull stopped dead in his tracks at the sound of the nervous grunt, my shot was true, and now there is work to do.

That is my positive attitude scenario

[Wyo67]

I've now made it close to the top & it's noon, 4 different bulls have bugled & I'm within 175yds of the herd bull, he's on the bench just above me, I haven't seen an elk yet because of the thick undergrowth conditions. I've found a great setup spot as it's extremely difficult to cut the distance fear of being spotted or heard because of the unsuitable conditions & downfall, the wind is favorable & all elk are in bedding area. What should I do now? ElkNut1

For me, I'd be happy with one of the satellites and would follow easeup and Phantom's plan to be patient and quietly lure one in. But... since only June and we're throwing ideas out there and not really climbing that mountain with a foot of snow, I'm going take a stab at the herd bull. My thoughts are:
1) I've still got the wind in my favor but that can change in the afternoon. For the herd bull, I'm thinking I have find a way to slowly, quietly, easily slip my way up to the same level as the bench that he is on, even if I have to back out a little in order to do so. Conditions will be a challenge as the snow fall will make hearing the elk moving probably nearly impossible, but that can work to your advantage as well, they won't be able to visually identify you either if you're stealthy enough. Must keep tabs on the 4 bugling bulls as they can stir things up.
2) Once I'm on the same level as the herd bull, try to cut the distance to the herd bull. Hopefully, if I'm stealthy enough and those satellites keep the herd focused on them, I will be able to get close enough to a visual on the bedded herd. Once that happens, wait and see if the big boy will make the rounds to check on his ladies. If I'm in range, take the shot then. If not, wait for the herd bull to move on and then give some distressed cow calls followed by a raghorn bugle to see if we can get Mr. Herd to come roaring back to reclaim his cow.
3) If all else fails and I'm busted by herd and they start to move out, charge in as fast as I can and let loose a bad-assed challenging bugle and hope to catch the big guy coming in to defend his herd.

Since I've yet to take a herd bull, I could be way off base here - so any comments/criticism are welcome!

Mike

[Blackhorn]

I think I like your idea best Mike. I am pretty sure that is what I would do. I am not a freshman but I am definitely still JV, so I am currious as to what the veterans would say to your way of doing it.

[ElkNut1]

Again, all great responses & have merit in many hunting situations where we could be successful!

In this situation you have to appreciate that there's no getting to this bull/bulls. You have to make something happen to get them to come to you for best odds of success because of the terrain issues. Too, I knew from hunting this area before that the bench they were on was much more open & getting to the crest of it & calling could be a disaster! I noticed the herd bull was pacing all around up there as he bugled from one spot then another, he was managing his cows & keeping the other bulls at bay, I also knew there were one heck of a lot of eyes up there so I decided to pull out a few tricks to lure something with horns my way & off of that bench! (grin) I've been in similar situations & have been able to draw on their curiosity to come my way so I figured why not now! I was also getting concerned with the wind, it was good at present but I knew it was going to get swirly within 30 minutes or so as the sun was creeping towards me, I was on a West facing slope.

I started subtle, I gave 2 soft cow calls with a raging bull reed, waited 15 seconds & started raking tree branches, this got an immediate response from the bull, I raked more then turned behind me & cow called 2 more times with some whine to it. This was a Level I Threat! I knew it was going to take much more than this to encourage at least a 5 point my way if not the herd bull himself. I then escalated to Level II within minutes & then Level III cutting the bulls bugle off with my own at this time, no doubt he was getting enraged, (a couple of the other bulls were chiming in too) I then started backing out calling with whinny mews, grunts, pants & groans & stomping all around in a 10yd area imitating a real scuffle & continued till I was 60yds away or so from original setup spot, once I showed them that I was leaving I then hot footed back to my setup spot & sat quietly. 10 minutes, nothing, 15 minutes, nothing. 20 minutes & now I'm getting nervous that I may have to just flat force the action & go to them as much as I knew it was a huge risk! I kept telling myself to stay put & be patient as most calling had ceased from the bulls, this generally means something is coming but I'd given them 20 minutes & I was concerned about the wind changing?

I decide I have to get to that crest of the bench best I could, I figured I'd get 1/2 way to the edge which was 40yds & give a soft calf call to let anything know that heard me it was just a calf moving around. I move from my spot aprox 25 yds heading up & there the bull stands in a big pine tree staring at me! It was the herd bull !!! He was slipping in towards my setup & only 75 yds from where I'd left, arggggg! My impatience cost me a shot opportunity! There went many hours of fun down the drain in an instant! (grin) He whirled & bolted away & the entire mountain side erupted & they were gone!

As some mentioned above the distance of 175 yds is a bit far but I had no choice, there are times when there's not much else you can do to cut the distance. This was one of them! It was a ton of fun & I'll see that bull again this year! (grin)

Thanks for all your thoughts & insight guys, most were right on in their evaluation, good stuff! This is how we all learn!

ElkNut1