"X" Marks the Spot - # 3?

[WapitiTalk1]

No long winded story here. It's the 5th day of your 7 day hunt; bull only area; the wind is in your favor. You're 27 yards directly where this bull is staring and are at full draw. Are you shooting? If so, put an "X" on the spot your arrow is heading.

Reminder that if you save the picture to your desktop and open in MS Paint, you'll be able to place a spot, X, or whatever on the critter before you save it back to a jpg and add the marked up pic with your post.

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[stringunner]

No shot there for me with my bow.

[easeup]

There should not be a problem blowing through and hitting that bull.
I have always wondered about this sort of thing, so in some 3d tournaments I would adjust my shooting position to make sure we had to shoot through the brush.
So not trying to derail Mr Phantoms thread at all, but what we found was that there were very very few instances of any noticeable deflection from small leaves and so forth. so at that distance there is no appreciable arrow drop to worry with and I believe a guy can put an arrow between those two wigs and take that bull.
(lawyer statement - if you are confident and proficient shooter. However, Your results may vary)

[BrentLaBere]

No shot there for me with my bow.

^^^^^Agreed

[zpd307]

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damnit. just when I thought I got this paint thing.....

[WapitiTalk1]

damnit. just when I thought I got this paint thing.....

Weak effort officer One more time, with feeling!

[Trumkin the Dwarf]

No shot. My broadheads are 2" wide...that's a lot smaller margin for error than with a field point.

[Lefty]

Its looking like Im close to the brush in front and could be shooting over the top and the brush not a worry, Maybe squat down and shoot under
If I had brush more than 2 yards in front Im not shooting
With a rifle Im shooting

[jmez]

I really want to but I'm not doing that.

[Swede]

I would shoot just an inch above where easeup hit. At 27 yards, I'm shooting.

[stringunner]

Ok so for those shooting, I.e. Swede and Easeup, are you guys shooting because you feel the bush is close enough to the bull that it will not affect the path of the arrow? For me, I say no shot, as the distance from the animal to the bush is unknown....from the picture. I'm just curious what your reason is for taking the shot, does it make a difference if the bush is 2 ft 5 ft, 10 ft from the animal?

I really am just being curious here, not questioning to be negative...so don't take it that way.

[easeup]

I'm glad you asked. For this reason is why this forum is the best in that unlike your other hunting forums the trash talk begins with my first post.

Here are my thoughts on the shot picture. Past experience with the foam target courses is that the little leafy stuff has no impact on the arrow flight path.( at least on our set up shooting ~ 400+ grn arrows). And the closer the leafy object to the target it is even less. Now those little branches are going to ruin your shot if you hit one of them. Now comes in to play how confident and clear your focus is at the time of the shot. Shooting a compound at this distance is almost a gimme ( word of caution - never get over confident or blasé about a shot). So I see a bright light condition, close range, a clear flight path through the visual distractor of concern. I see perfect broadside stance of my target and I can see the point of impact in my target. In addition there is no consideration necessary for the arrow to drop in or arc over any kind of obstruction in its path. And lastly, is the thing that I know without a shadow of a doubt, that I can make that shot every time. Guys, this is not trash talk; it is an honest reply of what your mind must be clear on when you elect to take a shot that some may consider risky; whether it be 90 yds or 10; almost dark or windy.

Mr. Swede who jumped in the same boat elects to shoot a tad higher for the reason I suspect is to give himself just a little more margin of error- on which is an excellent choice.

[Fridaythe13th]

I would be a shooter too, For me in real life situation the arrow has left the bow. no way in my mind I could let the bull or an legal bull walk because of a few green leaves

[BrentLaBere]

I can make that shot and would concentrate on where to hit the elk. But, I only say no shot from past experience. Missed my best whitetail at 18 yards with one branch across the vitals that looked just like this. Not sure what hit the branch (fletching or broadhead) but the arrow turned sideways and smacked the deer.....Found some hair and no blood on the arrow or snow.
Turkey hunting this spring I had a 10 yards shot at a turkey through a barbed wire fence. Not minding the fence thinking I could make it through easily, the arrow launched 100 some yards over it into the pasture.
For future situations I would personally like to stay away from these because of my tunnel vision I get on the shot. I see the mark, find the pin, and thats it. I lose track of the obstacles and I think it would mess with me too much trying to avoid the fence/branches. It hasn't fared well for me.
...only reason I take that stance.

[Screaming_btf]

At 27 yards with little to no wind I am shooting. In heavy wind I may change my mind.

[elkmtngear]

Wouldn't take much wind to change the position of those brushy limbs.

I would be SO tempted...but I'd pass until I got a better opportunity.

[Wyo67]

I can make that shot and would concentrate on where to hit the elk. But, I only say no shot from past experience.

Agree. Missed a dandy muley buck last year due to an old barbed wire fence. Arrow nose dived to the ground.

So far as this shot, I would have hopefully stopped him before he got behind that scrub brush and would be peaking to the right to see if I have an open lane if he continues going the way he's headed...

[Swede]

easeup said it very well. In this situation the vital area on the bull is much larger than the clear area between the branches. Therefore I am going to focus on sending an arrow through the softball sized opening that is 25 yards away. I know I can do that as I have done it more than once before. The key is to focus on the open space. Wind? We can imagine a lot of things about wind. If there was a strong cross wind, then my accuracy would be effected, and I would rethink the matter. Right now it doesn't strike me as a factor. I'm shootin, unless that darn easeup has his arrow in him already. In that case I will plan to go get the packs. That is a dead elk standing.

[stringunner]

Great explanation Easeup and Swede. Thank you for elaborating. I guess the only remaining question in my mind (which ultimately is the deciding factor in whether I shoot or not) is this statement by Easeup:

Now those little branches are going to ruin your shot if you hit one of them.

And I agree at 25 yards, it should be a no brainer with the size of the opening as Swede mentions. And that I suppose is where the high confidence in your shooting ability comes in.

Great posts by all. I love these threads.

[Toby]

I'm cautious, I have a call in my mouth and hopefully as he takes a step or two I can stop him for a clear shot.

I am sure a lot of guys can make the shot with no problems, and I would not suggest they pass if they are confident. "Know thyself" is key here as in most shooting situations.

[timberland]

I have always wondered about this sort of thing, so in some 3d tournaments I would adjust my shooting position to make sure we had to shoot through the brush.
So not trying to derail Mr Phantoms thread at all, but what we found was that there were very very few instances of any noticeable deflection from small leaves and so forth. so at that distance there is no appreciable arrow drop to worry with and I believe a guy can put an arrow between those two wigs and take that bull.

Broadheads in brush is WAAAY different than field tips. They grab anything they can get their hands on. And to "chance it" on finding a hole in the twigs is not a viable option for me. NO SHOT

I hear way more stories of unseen twigs wrecking a shot than finding holes in brush to shoot through. I had some old broadheads at the shop and for fun we tried shooting through brush with them. At 20-25 yds it looked like we were shooting with our eyes closed.

[Steve G]

I'm with Easeup and Swede. The brown branches may deflect an arrow but I don't think that the green portion will. There is way more space than there is branches. It looks like with the thirty yard pin where Easeup places it allows the arrow to comfortably clear the lower branch and blow clear through that animal.

[Trumkin the Dwarf]

I should add here, that I said no shot because I shoot a longbow. At 10-13 yards I'd be sliding an arrow through the gap no questions asked. I do see a pocket to shoot through, just am not confident at 27 yards that I won't be an inch to the left. I also have to deal with a quicker dropping arrow. This is why there are so few absolute yes or no answers (or questions for that matter) in hunting. A lot of it comes down to an individual knowing their abilities and sticking with what they know to be a good decision for their own situation.

[Swede]

Well said Trumpkin. There are a lot of shots I won't take, that others successively do. I limit myself to 40 yards. Even with modern archery equipment the animal can too easily move after the arrow is released and a bad hit results. I have a friend that will take an 80 yard shot on a relaxed animal and make a killing shot. I don't criticize him because his animals are as easy to track down as those I shoot at 25-30 yards.

[Relentlessly Unforgiving]

At that distance with the softball size opening I'm shooting. I shoot a machanical broad head and would be interested to know who is shooting what, and if that changes their decision.

[Swede]

Relentless: Be careful about those mechanical broadheads. They are very ill eagle here in Oregon for big game.

[ishy]

+1 with timberland I'm passing for now, looks like it's pretty open country so even if he bolts I feel confident that a nervous gunt will stop him within range hopefully with less obstructions.

[zpd307]

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there we go! I am shooting as this will probably be my first shot at an elk with a bow and further still it would be on the last afternoon of my hunt.....

[WapitiTalk1]

elk.png

there we go! I am shooting as this will probably be my first shot at an elk with a bow and further still it would be on the last afternoon of my hunt.....

Nice shot! Need some help packing him out?

[zpd307]

you bet, i would never turn down help! now, what are your terms

[WapitiTalk1]

you bet, i would never turn down help! now, what are your terms

Just a few fat loin slices, skewered on willow sticks, sprinkled generously with Alpine Touch (Montana's Special Spice) over the fire later

[welka]

Not me. Been there, done that and am Zero for 2. Had a deflection at 10 yards go under and wounded the bull and one at 5 yards go over back (likely a duck also).

[Indian Summer]

I remember that one Welka. Bummer.

But I'm going for it. 27 yards is close. No wind. Perfect angle. And I've threaded the needle on deer before with a window of opportunity like that. I'm pretty calm in close proximity to elk I might add. But I'm shooting higher than others. Even though an arrow may be able to handle a leaf.... if the forward energy is compromised penetration can suffer greatly. On elk I want all the penetration I can get. Those lungs go up high and as long as I'm not forced to shoot too high risking a spine shot I don't mind high in the lungs. Lungs are lungs! Plus it's a bigger opening up there.

But I will say this.... my actual decision wouldn't be made until I was at full draw. Sometimes you have to "feel it" to let it fly ya' know. If for any reason my 6th sense said don't do it I wouldn't. But if everything felt right I'd be digging out my knife and Clip-Shot in a few minutes!

Ok the truth: I only post on these threads because Phantom taught me how to use MS Paint. Don't you guys and gals agree I got better penetration with a yellow dot than with red?

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With all due respect the fact that it is one's first opportunity or time is running out are NOT legit factors in this decision! That's like saying I'd take the shot simply because I want to kill an elk really really bad. In fact if it is the first time you've been close enough to smell a bull's breath it's likely you won't be fully composed and should consider passing on this marginal shot opportunity. I've guided enough people to feel constructive comments like that are a doing a favor to the hunter. I wouldn't want a new elk bow hunters 1st elk shooting experience to be a negative one brother. BUT... if you are a crack shot and have nerves of steel... you certainly have my vote of confidence.