Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin-"Concur or Bullshrimp" Part 2

[WapitiTalk1]

Let's run this one again . In my neverending quest to find ways for us to talk about these big galoots, I've came up with an elk "round robin". It goes like this, someone throws out a fact or behavior trait about elk and folks will respond in their follow on posts with either "concur" if they agree or "bullshrimp" if they don't. You may certainly add comments to your concur/bullshrimp response if you wish. We'll try to keep it rolling along, but, please wait for at least two follow on posts to occur for any posted elk fact or behavior offered prior to moving on.

Example: RJ posts "Elk ivories are the two teeth located directly behind the top two canines". Trophy posts "bullshrimp.. they actually are the elk's top two canines".

Should be fun..... I'll get the first one going.

[WapitiTalk1]

Roosevelt elk are not as vocal as Rocky Mountain Elk during the rut period. Concur or bullshrimp?

[Gselkhunter]

Roosevelt elk are not as vocal as Rocky Mountain Elk during the rut period. Concur or bullshrimp?

Never had the chance at a Roosevelt so I don't have an answer. So my question would be this Rory do you hear high or low pitch better in that thick a foilage? So do they call less or you can't hear it?
Next step do elk hit pitches we can't hear?

[WapitiTalk1]

So my question would be this Rory do you hear high or low pitch better in that thick a foilage? So do they call less or you can't hear it? Next step do elk hit pitches we can't hear?[/quote]

Hmm, I would say you can hear higher pitches better in thick foliage (concur); yes, I would also concur that elk hit pitches we cannot hear.

Still looking for a concur or bullshrimp for my orginal question from somebody.

[Trophyhill]

From what I've heard others say that live and hunt in the coastal jungles for Rosie's, I'm gonna say bs and that Rosie's aren't as vocal.

Now as far as whether you can hear higher or lower pitches in dense timber better? It's in the book

[Swede]

I agree Roosevelt bulls are not as vocal as Yellowstone AKA Rocky Mountain bulls. That does not mean they can't be called. Also understand Cascade Mountains elk are Yellowstone elk, and not true Rosies.

[Swede]

One morning Swede is sitting in his tree stand and has a small herd come to the water he is perched over. The herd has a medium 4X4 bull which Swede takes careful aim on and shoots. Instantly the herd runs off, taking the bull with them. The bull was shot from the left side. As Swede later follows the tracks, the blood trail suddenly is no longer in the tracks of the herd. ** The bull has left the herd and turned to the left. **

[Olydog09]

One morning Swede is sitting in his tree stand and has a small herd come to the water he is perched over. The herd has a medium 4X4 bull which Swede takes careful aim on and shoots. Instantly the herd runs off, taking the bull with them. The bull was shot from the left side. As Swede later follows the tracks, the blood trail suddenly is no longer in the tracks of the herd. ** The bull has left the herd and turned to the left. **

Bullshrimp. Swede flinched at the shot and pinwheeled a calf. Just kidding Swede but I am not sure I understand the question.

[Swede]

Oly: Did the bull turn off the path of the herd and go to the left? Think about your experience is similar situations. What happened?

[Olydog09]

Oly: Did the bull turn off the path of the herd and go to the left? Think about your experience is similar situations. What happened?

I will call Bullshrimp. Most my animals turned to the offside after being shot but that was generally at the shot. After the initial burst direction was usually dictated by terrain, cover and the severity of the hit. Maybe I am just not understanding the question properly. I can be a little thick sometimes.

[WapitiTalk1]

Elk do not not wallow after mid September.

[Swede]

RJ, Bulls definitely wallow later, but the wallowing tapers off at that time.

I don't really have an answer to my own question, but it has been my observation that an elk will try to stay with the herd after being shot with an arrow. I assume the same would be true if the elk were shot with anything else if they can. I have shot about 5 elk that were in a herd. Every time they went with the herd for a ways then turned off when they could no longer stay with them. Each time they turned to the side where the arrow entered them. Hit on left side, they turn to the left. Coincidence? I can't be sure. I will say I have not observed the same thing where I shot an elk that was a part of a bull bunch, pair or other very small group.

[mrganser]

Swede,
You've intrigued me on the elk in the Cascades not being true Roosevelt's. Can you explain this?

Bill

[Swede]

mrganzer: You can type in the Boone and Crocket Roosevelt Boundary on the internet and read where they accept trophies from. http://www.boone-crockett.org/bgrecords ... =bgRecords Going from memory The book on the Elk of North America, Ecology and Management says the Rosies ranged at one time to the summit of the Cascades. At this time elk in the Cascades are recognized as Rocky Mtn. elk. That may be due to intermingling of subspecies, but I can say the antlers of Cascade bulls are like the Rocky Mtn. elk. The Rosies are like the European stags.
If I remember correctly, it took a long time before B&C Club to recognize Roosevelt elk as a separate subspecies. The top end of their antlers convinced them that they were not just an adaption.
I hope I helped some on this question. I think I forget too much.

[WapitiTalk1]

Roosies (in WA at least) do range up to the apex of the Cascade Range. Here's one below I'm posing with a nice little bull my buddy Joe shot back about 9 years or so, in a wilderness area, less than 3 miles from the top of the ridge. There are no doubt Rooseys on the E side of I5 (just take a drive up to Mt. St. Helens and you'll see what I mean) but as Swede mentioned, they are not recognized as true Roosevelts by B&C unless harvested on the W side of I5. Perhaps there has been some intermingling that messed with the purity of the sub species? I'm gonna do some more research on this.

IMG_0793.jpg (198.36 KiB) Viewed 10146 times

[Swede]

RJ, Buddy. The picture you show here is a Rocky Mountain set of antlers. Take a good look at the tops and you will see they did not come from a Roosevelt bull. That is why B&C recognize them as Rocky Mtn. and not Roosevelt elk.

[Washington Wapiti]

It would seem that it is an issue of convenience for the sake of scoring, as well as issuing tags, since a hunter has to designate E or W side when purchasing. Similar to black tail and mule deer boundary designations here (You don't have to choose a side of the state for deer). Where their ranges overlap it probably gets too messy to distinguish since they are known to cross. It would make sense they figure the chance of Roosies and Rocky Mountain crossbreeding on the west side of I-5 is much, much less. I feel the bull I killed is a true Roosie, but wouldn't be considered such because of the location.

[WapitiTalk1]

RJ, Buddy. The picture you show here is a Rocky Mountain set of antlers. Take a good look at the tops and you will see they did not come from a Roosevelt bull. That is why B&C recognize them as Rocky Mtn. and not Roosevelt elk.

Swede, are you sure? Here's another view of the bull. I may be wrong but this looks like a Roosey to me

5X6Bull.jpg (134.58 KiB) Viewed 10137 times

[Olydog09]

RJ, Bulls definitely wallow later, but the wallowing tapers off at that time.

I don't really have an answer to my own question, but it has been my observation that an elk will try to stay with the herd after being shot with an arrow. I assume the same would be true if the elk were shot with anything else if they can. I have shot about 5 elk that were in a herd. Every time they went with the herd for a ways then turned off when they could no longer stay with them. Each time they turned to the side where the arrow entered them. Hit on left side, they turn to the left. Coincidence? I can't be sure. I will say I have not observed the same thing where I shot an elk that was a part of a bull bunch, pair or other very small group.

Interesting Swede. I will remember this and see if it holds true in my future endeavors.

[Swede]

RJ. What makes you say that looks like a Roosevelt? Is it the color? That is due to what the bull rubbed on. The wide open tops make me say Rocky Mtn. That it was killed where B&C say it is not accepted is a factor. I believe this bull could be a descendent of a cross between RM and Roosevelt elk. That too disqualifies it as a true Roosevelt. I was raised and worked for years in the Cascades. We commonly called them Roosevelt elk, but it was recognized as a misnomer. Look at a picture of a European Stag and a Roosevelt bull with a good rack of antlers. Take notice of the tops and then look at your bull. You should be able to see the difference, even though there are some similarities.

[WapitiTalk1]

Swede, I guess I just always thought of these bulls in the W side of the WA Cascades as rooseys. The chocolate rack color, the non-sweeping backwards antler tip, and the small crown point popping up between the 4/5 on the left side of this bull. I'd say this guy may not be pure, but I'd call him a roosey. The more research I do on the topic (true roosey vs E of I5 roosey), I'm starting to understand at least physiologically, why some organizations do not recognize the Cascade dwelling elk as a true roosey. Interesting topic for sure.

[Washington Wapiti]

How about this guy? What do you guys think? The light palmation on the right is a giveaway to me, but maybe not?

ELKEURO.JPG (179.96 KiB) Viewed 10123 times

[WapitiTalk1]

"Cascade" Roosey Man that guy has some character!

[Washington Wapiti]

"Cascade" Roosey Man that guy has some character!

LOL, I like that! A sub-sub species. Character indeed . . . I think he's the social outcast of the bunch. I'd sure like to know this guy's story!

[Trophyhill]

Ok here's one for you. True or bull shrimp? The color of elk antlers is determined by species and diet.

[Swede]

Bull. It is based on what they rub their antlers on. Under the velvet they are all pretty much white.

[Screaming_btf]

Bull, I am with Swede on this

[pd]

Bull. It is based on what they rub their antlers on. Under the velvet they are all pretty much white.

Swede, I didn't know this. Does this also account for the dark brown coloration on blacktail antlers? If I think about it, the color of a blacktail and a Roosevelt's antlers are quite similar. Is this because of the local vegetation?

[Indian Summer]

Roosevelt elk are not as vocal as Rocky Mountain Elk during the rut period. Concur or bullshrimp?

Are NOT...

Concur! I spent an entire season there and heard one bugle in areas with plenty of elk. I think that since they roam around in their tight knit little family groups they aren't prone to calling to locate each other. Plus who feels like yelling out in a display of happiness when your dang feet are always wet? Yuk!

[elkaholic]

Ok here's one for you. True or bull shrimp? The color of elk antlers is determined by species and diet.

Bull-pucky- all depends on what they have to rub on. Mahogany and juniper seem to give them a bit of a red ting while desert bulls are really light colored. Ya might think of them kinda like Easter eggs!!