Can you differntiate between an elk and a hunter bugling

[Steve G]

I am new to elk and am concerned that in an OTC area I may be chasing the wrong bugles. Can you differentiate? How do you avoid hunting a hunter or being hunted? Any tips for the novice are appreciated.

[WapitiTalk1]

Yes sir, you can tell between hunter and elk "most" of the time. Realism or quality of the elk sound you hear is not always the best indicator as there are a few hunters that sound very good, and, some elk that do not sound very good at all .

1. Location - Is the answer or unsolicited bugle in an area where there probably shouldn't be a hunter at that moment in time, and, you know holds elk? Deep dark draws shortly after daylight where there is no real access trail "down there", farther up the access trail from your position when you know you were the first one in that morning (and, there are no known camps up higher), way across a draw in an alder thicket where not many hunters venture, are just a few examples.
2. Time of day - Elk are "mostly" vocal very early in the morning, near nightfall, and during the hours of darkness up through midnight or longer dependent upon the time of the rut.
3. Repetition from a location - Mid day/early afternoon bulls will occasionally bugle from their bedding areas as they stand to stretch, do a perimeter check of the herd, and possibly while on their way to grab a beverage or quick wallow from an area near bedding area. They will "occasionally" bugle but will seldom sound off more than once or twice in an hour's period (yes, they'll sometimes sound off more than that). Additionally, many hunters will stay in one spot and not move, expecting a bull to run into them. If you hear a bugle at a point in time and the next time you hear it, the location has moved several hundred yards in tough terrain, it's quite possibly an elk.
4. Timing of the return bugle - Most guys do not answer back immediately (takes time to pull out calls, ready tube, etc.) but bulls often do. If you're hearing a response almost before your tube drops from your mouth or very shortly after, it's "probably" a bull.
5. The reed calls (non diaphram tubes) are the easiest calls IMO to spot. They have a very distinct sound that does not vary much from bugle to bugle. I always ask guys that may be hunting in an area I'm in what they're using to call. That's sometimes prevents an unfortunate situation if you know what they're using, and, perhaps even how they sound.
6. Hoochie mamas are a dead giveaway

Just a few thoughts on your topic.

[Steve G]

That's a terrific response and answers more questions than I asked. Thank you.

[Swede]

I generally agree with what RJ wrote above. Sometimes it is hard to tell. RJ gives some examples where you can get a good idea and also some where you can be fairly sure. That said, if you are not positive, assume you are hearing an elk. If you think you are sure, then double check. As RJ said, elk can make some awful calls, and callers can make some very convincing calls. Don't go just on the quality of the sound.
You can get a good idea it the bugle came from the direction you just heard a vehicle engine just get turned off. Elk calls and human voices don't normally go together if it is elk. A set cadence like every few yards and couple of minutes is normally a hunter.

[Lark Bunting]

I've been told to get eyes on pretty much anything that you may even slightly think is an elk. If it's a hunter, try to call him to you.

I regret not pursuing one scenario last year. Last weekend of the season, Saturday night, and my son stops me...

"Dad, listen, it's a bugle!".
Me:
"No dad! LISTEN!"
Me: Sure enough...I hear a bugle, then another a few hundred yards from where I heard the first.
"Dad! Lets go over there!"
Me: <checking watch> Well buddy, we can go over there but it will be pitch black by the time we get there.
"Maybe we can go check it out tomorrow then?"
Me: Sure buddy

And, we never made it back there the next day (last day of the season).

The weekend before though, we were in a ravine just behind camp when we heard the same bugle coming from the road, then we could hear a truck engine, then a bugle, engine, bugle...needless to say I'm 100% sure I made the right decision to NOT pursue that "elk".

[Toby]

RJ that's some great information, nothing I can add.

[ishy]

The two worst bugles I've ever heard were bulls.

[pointysticks]

haha..funny thread.

i was up on my secret spot. we bugled and got a REAL response. we saw the bull. we got the most beautiful response from the road below us..i binod down and see this guy in his big jacked up F350 truck..bugling out the window. he was really pretty good..if anything he was calling waaaay too much. but he was in love with my brother and i..he thought our sucky calls were real!!

flattery got him nowhere..before he messed up our hunt..i shined my flashlight on him..we were near the top. he looked saw us..waved and moved away. he was so bummed younger more aggresive hunters got between him and any bulls..

we killed two up there.

[pointysticks]

same problem with turkey calls btw..but more dangerous.

[Screaming_btf]

I think the end of the bugle can many times make the difference in spotting a human caller. If I am in close and have a question I like to make 1 or 2 nice cow sounds, haven't run into a hunter that has bugled back to that... but many times an ELK will sound off almost immediately.

[wawhitey]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I've been there but not with elk. Last day of late rifle whitetail about 5 months ago I was trying to rattle n grunt a buck up to help a friend fill his tag. Heard a stick or two pop from an unexpected direction where my friend couldn't see or hear it. My adrenaline started going and I was trying to figure out how to get the trigger man's attention when out popped an orange vest about 50 yards away. What a bummer. Can't believe anybody was back in that damned thick jungle. Oh well, at least I sounded convincing. And I did rattle up a little buck earlier in the day. Either way just another instance of a hunter fooling a hunter. I ended up talking to the guy the next day as he broke camp and he said he thought for sure he was sneaking up on a couple bucks fighting

[elk.addict]

If I am in close and have a question I like to make 1 or 2 nice cow sounds, haven't run into a hunter that has bugled back to that... but many times an ELK will sound off almost immediately.

That's what I thought too, until this past season. I was in a bull only area; I heard a bugle and questioned whether or not it was a real bull so I let a couple cow calls. The 'bull' responded and started moving in. Again I thought, boy that sure sounds like a hunter but the situation was odd so I wasn't sure what was going on. Eventually I cow called in a hunter. I was a little surprised that he moved in on our cow call, but I never did talk to him so not sure what he was thinking.

[Indian Summer]

The two worst bugles I've ever heard were bulls.

Yep! You never know.

For the most part I just try to hunt where there are so few people I can safely assume it's an elk. But even then you can never be sure. When opportunity knocks you have to at least have a look.

[Solitude]

Typically the high volume of the "real" bull blows away a caller IMO. Also, I concur with a couple posts above where if you throw a cow call out typically a hunter will not respond and a bull does.

[Glacier Country]

The Elk grunts and chuckles are how I can tell, with about 90% + accuracy. Real elk have a distinct HD resonance that Most people cannot duplicate. I am trying to think of any instance where, I was ever fooled once I heard the grunts?? There is a crispness and HD like feel to a real bulls grunts...a little something extra that is hard to explain but is unmistakeable. I will go to a bugle until I can determine if it is a real bull or not. There are a lot of guys here that sound very very good and so it can be very hard to tell by the bugle, especially, if they are a really good diaphragm caller. You will see and hear other hunters here, it is just part of it.

[Swede]

Bulls sometimes make a guttural chuckle that I thought no human could duplicate. That was until I heard Mike Slinkard of Winners Choice bow strings in the forest one day. He totally had me believing I was onto a big bull. I was ready to come to full draw when I saw human legs coming my way and below the fir limbs.

[Glacier Country]

Bulls sometimes make a guttural chuckle that I thought no human could duplicate. That was until I heard Mike Slinkard of Winners Choice bow strings in the forest one day. He totally had me believing I was onto a big bull. I was ready to come to full draw when I saw human legs coming my way and below the fir limbs.

Swede, was Mike using a diaphragm or just his voice?

[Swede]

He had to be using a diaphragm for the most part. I did not see him make the calls. I was in my tree stand nearby, and he had no idea I was anywhere in the country. Those sounds I call" guttural" were at the end of his bugle. To be positive, I can't be sure. I don't remember if he had a diaphragm. I heard him several times. Before that I thought no human can make that sound right.

[Gselkhunter]

From a distance it can be hard to tell, up close it isn't too hard. Elk bugles are almost a hollow or sureal sounding and there are very few callers that can match that sound. If it makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up there is very little chance it is a hunter.