My Distance Shooters

[LckyTylr]

Who are my Distance Shooters, guys that would take a 300 yard shot on a mule deer or elk any given day of the week and not blink or wonder if they can get closer? How about 500 yards under certain weather/wind conditions?

Please no BS, if you are a shooter, you know it.

I'm getting into long range (haha, too me anyways) and it's a tricky craft to grasp. My Father-in-Law has a lot of reloading experience, but never for precision accuracy. We are learning the ropes together. I guess I can't really say I'm getting into long range, but I'm trying to stretch my personal limits. I'm shooting a bone-stock factory Remington 700 SS 300 RUM, so by no means am I going to be a true long range shooter. I'm from the East cost, I think the furthest shot I have ever taken at a whitetail was 80 yards, they don't stand out int he middle of Farm fields and wait for you to lay down and shoot them from 700 yards, I did most of my hunting with a bow or slug gun. Now that I'm in Idaho, I'm trying to be prepared for some longer shots.

At heart, I'm an archery hunter, so I have NO Problem getting within "the red zone" of game, but I have been bitten by the bug to push my limits.

So, here's where I'm at so far. I have been shooting standard factory brass, not shooting the precision Nosler or other brand-name brass. We have been shooting NON-match grade CCI primers, Retumbo Powder and the Berger 210 LRH's. Best 5 shot group I have had so far is 4 shots touching in a line (as barrel was heating up) at 5/8" at 100 yards with one "flyer". That was with 88.5 grains of Retumbo (on the lower side of suggested loads for that bullet).

On the list of things that I'm going to be trying over the next few weekends as I get time and low-wind days (HA, it's Idaho!), I'll be trying H-1000 powder with the Bergers as well as trying AccuBond bullets. I'm also going to start using Federal 215 Match-grade primers. So, I have a lot of variables and load development to work through trying to find that "magic load" that my rifle prefers.

To you long range guys, what are you shooting now and what's it/you capable of? What gun did you first start stretching your limits with? For my factory 26" standard contour Remington 700 300 RUM, I'm curious to know at what point "good" is "as good as it gets" and I'm chasing my tail to get any better. Is 3/4" group at 100 as good as I should be expecting, or is 1/2" . . . or do you think I can shoot 1-hole groups (assuming that I am personally capable of that)

Eventually, I'd like to buy a custom/built rifle that truly is capable of reaching out and touching something, but at this point, affordability (factory) and mobility (low weight) are my biggest limitations.

Thanks guys, this is an addicting little obsession I have.

[ferris bugler]

I would love to shoot really long range at a target because I think it would be a lot of fun. 1000 yards or more. At animals, I know some guys are comfortable doing it, but not me. I am comfortable everyday to 300, and will consider 400 or 450 on the right occasion. Have fun shooting in the west. There's not as many trees in the way.

[Indian Summer]

I'm about to go to bed but thought I'd make a quick reply. First of all that .300 RUM is capable of 1000 yards shots. But like a race car needs a driver you have to top it with a scope that's up to the job and good one piece mounts to lock it down.

What is the Berger LHR? I know the Berger VLD is a top choice of long bombers. They give me free bullets for being a licensed outfitter and I have quite a few. I'd be glad to mail you some to try. Otherwise I'd go with Nosler Accubonds which is also a top pick of long range hunters. You don't have to use match grade everything. Factory brass with magnum primers. Good magnum powder like Reloader 25. And take your time to make sure your ammo is consistent and you'll be able to shoot accurately as far as you want to.

I shoot a .300 RUM and 300 yards is a chip shot. So is 500 in decent conditions but I'm using a Leupold Mark V Long Range Tactical 6.5-20 X50mm scope.

[LckyTylr]

Sorry, I'm using the slang that people have been throwing around on the internet. I have been shooting the Berger 210 VLD-H or VLD-Hunting bullets, some of the guys on the forums are calling them the VLD LRH (Long Range Hunter).

For a scope, I have a Vortex Viper HS 6-24x50 with BDC. The crosshairs, IMHO, are thicker than they should be for a long range scope. I've never sat behind any true long range scopes, so I guess I wouldn't know, but I can't split nat hairs at 500 yards with these crosshairs. I do okay though, as I can aim at a really small dot at the range and still shoot consistently. I do NOT have a one-piece mount. At the time of assembling my rifle, I was a new dad and in my last year of college, so $150 scope base was "not in the budget" as my Wife put it.

I got my hands on some of the accubonds and will be loading those up this weekend. I think that between the Berger's and the AccuBonds . . . and the Retumbo or the H-1000, I outta be able to find a good load that will outshoot my ability. Lots of time at the bench this summer. I'm excited, it's like mini-Christmas every time I go to the range, I never know what I'm going to get.

IS, what gun are you shooting in 300 RUM, a full custom or a factory with modifications?

[pointysticks]

I grew up shooting jack rabbits at 400 yards. Bone stock M70 with a cloudy weaver scope. Putting a vx3 on the thing was a game changer. I haven't shot a rifle since 2007. Whatever I "had" went away. I don't find it easy anymore. My friends build long range guns. Scope companies I've never heard of, new strange calipers, etc.

Good luck!

[Lefty]

My dad was a good long range shooter, ; but deer hunting in Minnesota and Canada where we hunted was all close range.

Brag, brag brag
As a kid I was ahead of the curve. I had my .22 with a rifle scoped. As soon as I had .39 cents I bought a box of shells.It could take me hours to shoot those 50 shells
At 13 I bought a Rem 700, the neighbor did a lot of work on the gun, He also loaded all the .222 shells I could shoot, ( 1000 rounds over 2 years) The guy is/was a shooter . Hes the one that taught me to shoot. I just read he set another LD record a few years ago.

As a kid I would crawl a river buff , and shoot down across the river 3,4,5,600 yards alowing and adjusting for drop and wind
Ive killed a few fox with .22 CCI Stingers at just over 200 yards
Shot on fox in a flooded field at 570 yards, trapped the fox 3 days later the bullet , barley penetrated the skin.
I drew on Deseret Land And Livestock. I hadnt shot yet . I was watching a cow go up a steep hill. The guide asked if I could shoot, I said I could. I asked the range he asked what I was sighted in for. "shoot a foot high". I checked the range, raised the gun , Perfect shot 650 yards.
Realistically I wont take a shot beyond 500 yards on game,.. I just dont practice enough to "know " exact windage or drop

I have a couple 4 shot clover leafs at 121 yards with 120 and 160 gn ballistic tips, I was just refining the load
I quite enjoy pulling the trigger and hearing a ring or seeing dust
We taught our daughters to shoot and spent a lot of time in 4-H shooting sports. My middle daughter made two great shots on an antelope at 325 and 327.

[baddaddy]

Tyler,

A 20 MOA solid base does not need to cost $150. Once you load up find your best load and see what YOUR rifle is capable of. 3/4 inch groups may be all the gun is capable of without modifications being done. Some easy modifications are new trigger, bedding the action, free floating the barre,l and recutting the crown if needed. The other stuff like truing the action gets costly. depending on what the gun is capable of will depend on the max distance you want to try. BTW Berger VLD's will be length sensitive for your best groups. Your scope is a good one for starting the long range game. Get a good wind meter (Kestrel 4500NV) to help dope the wind. In the mountains you will have different winds with updrafts and cross winds depending on where you are at. A good ballistics program (Ballistic AE) on an I-Phone or Ipod can help with the other variables like air density, elevation changes, ect. Also try using 3 shot groups as a basis rather than 5. Burning that much powder can really heat up a barrel fast. Just my .02.

[aron]

I agree, you don't need that expensive of a base. Think I have a 20 MOA EGW base and have zero issues with it. I got bit by the long range shooting a few years ago. I started with a remington 700 308. It was all stock rifle with a Zeiss scope and have brought that out to 1000 yds. That has added to my addiction and now I have a custom rifle chambered in 260. I'm more in the long range shooting but would not hesitate at 300 yds or 500+ yds if allowed to take my time.

Berger VLD's are very sensitive to "distance from the lands" on your rifle. I've had good luck with Hornady amax which aren't as sensitive. A factory rifle probably won't allow you to load the VLD's close to the lands and still be able to use the magazine. A person can get great accuracy with mods like tuning a trigger or replacing it, more rigid stock, bedded action, floated barrel. I would take the time to enjoy shooting and work on fundamentals and form versus chasing that perfect recipe of which bullet, powder, primers, etc. A person can still get good results with CCI primers and factory brass. Work up a good load and get confident in your shooting ability. And by the way, 5/8" on factory rifle starting off is pretty dang good.

[Indian Summer]

Well you have the scope for the job. Does it have adjustable turrets for dialing in the minutes of angle? If not you can add those very easily.

Bases/rings are just a piece of metal. No need to spend big bucks on them. The point is just to get away from the adjustable type made from multiple parts like regular Leupold's or the like.

I use Talley's. Here's a link to the manufacturer's website and they are under $50. http://www.talleymanufacturing.com/Prod ... ngton.aspx

You can probably get them a little cheaper elsewhere. I shoot a Remington model 700 AWR. It is the Alaskan Wilderness Rifle which does come from the Remington custom shop which is no big deal. Barrel is free floated and lapped. Other than that they just made it a bit lighter than any other 700. My trigger pull is as low as the factory trigger would go but it's just that... factory.

If you ever want a heck of a factory gun for long range that you can top with a good scope and shoot long range right out of the box no question a Remington Sendero is the ticket. But with it's heavy weight unless you know you'll be sitting waiting for that long bomb it's not a gun you'd want to pack around the mountains for elk for a week. Your gun/scope combo is fine though. It's just time for some homework that's all.

Those Berger VLDs will shoot great but if loaded just off the lands they won't fit in your clip or magazine because they are so long. IMO the Accubonds are a better "hunting bullet" though so if they fly good from your gun I'd try to stick with them. Good luck and keep us posted on how it's going.

[LckyTylr]

Thanks guys, lots of good information above, all of it complementing the research that I've already done on my own . . . but it's really good to hear it from you guys, people that I trust a whole lot more than the masses on other forums.

I'll be loading up some of the AccuBonds this weekend. I'll try a powder ladder and shoot that first, then load up 1/2 grain increments for a full grain up and down from what I found as the "happy starting place". Once I get charge figured out, I'll mess with seating depth. I'll also load up some more of my Berger pet loads with the new primers . . . . oh . . . . and then, I'll do it allllll over again with H-1000.

I'll continue to work on shooting form, but practicing with variables is like peeing in the wind. I think I need to find a good load that I'm going to stick with prior to extending my range and working on form. Is that not true?

[ST52V]

Trigger time is trigger time! No matter what load your shooting form is important and could be worked on. Results on the target may not reflect it but you will know when you broke the trigger cleanly and had good follow through. Let us know how it goes.

[Indian Summer]

I think I need to find a good load that I'm going to stick with prior to extending my range and working on form. Is that not true?

Absolutely! Don't enter the race until your car is running right. Otherwise you're just burning gas & time.

[JoeH2o]

What I've found is, loading heavier bullets and slowing them down, will produce tighter groups down range (300yrds+). That's just what I found works best out of my rifle.

[Lefty]

What I've found is, loading heavier bullets and slowing them down, will produce tighter groups down range (300yrds+). That's just what I found works best out of my rifle.

I shoot the same amount of powder out of my 7mm a-bolt with Nosler partisans both are pushed out the barrel at 2950. the 160's do better beyond 300, the same was true with ballistic tips

[LckyTylr]

Update:

I found that 89.0 grains of Retumbo gives me the best group with the 210 Bergers. My seating depth was such that I could still fit them into a magazine box on my R700. I'm .010 away from the lands and that's as close as I can get. Since I have read on a few other forums that people have decent luck "jumping" the Bergers, I experimented with deeper seating depths (more jump). That didn't even seem to make a difference. I also was able to find some Federal 215 match primers to see if those make an improvement.

I'm not very satisfied at this point. At 200 yards, with my best powder charge and various seating depths, the best group I could get is about 4". Holy Crap . . . NOT what I was hoping for.

So, I also loaded up a ladder test of Nosler LR Accubond 180's. The powder column that seemed to work well is 96.5 - 97.5 grains, so I'm going to load up 5 rounds of each 1/2 grain increment to nail down the correct charge. Then I'll experiment with seating depths for those and try it all over again.

I also have some 185 Bergers that I can try, but I have very high hopes for the Accubonds as those seem to be a better hunting bullet for someone who isn't truly going to be shooting much beyond 200 yards (apparently).

Anyway . . . the frustrations continue on my path to precision accuracy. I'd really like the chance to shoot a true (proven) long range rig so I can determine what my own personal abilities are verses what my Rifle's limits are. I know it's only a factory gun, but geeze, can't I expect a little better with the amount of load development that I've done and the quality of components?

I have lucked into a bunch of Nosler brass, so between the brass, primers, bullets and powder . . . I'm not skimping on the load components. It would seem as it's either me or the rifle. When the trigger breaks on my shots, I feel as though I can call my shots within 1/2" (as the crosshairs are making what seems to be less than 1/4" figure 8's) . . . but maybe I'm fooling myself. I feel solid and as though I'm very consistent with breathing, body positioning, muscle relaxation and trigger pull.

Argh!