New Guy Grizzly Question

[michi45]

A friend and I are going to Montana for archery season for the first time. The area we are planning on hunting is south of Livingston and wanted to know if anyone has had any bad experiences with the grizzly in that area. We are both used to being around black bears, but we are both inexperienced around grizzlies and we were hoping for some advice. We have been in contact with the biologist for that area concerning the elk population and the grizzly population. He gave us some good advice and I was just wondering if anyone here may have some more information. Thanks in advance.

[baddaddy]

Welcome Aboard Scott. Follow what the biologist told you.

[BrentLaBere]

http://chronicleoutdoors.com/2011/07/21 ... onal-park/


This is a pretty good read. I have researched some of that area because I want to hunt it myself. More so south of Belgrade is the area I have looked into.

[ctdad]

My hunting partner sprayed himself in the face with bear spray while in the middle of packing out an elk and getting turned around and going 5 extra miles. I don't have any good bear advice but I wouldn't recommend doing that

[wawhitey]

Welcome Aboard Scott. Follow what the biologist told you.

i dont have jack for grizz experience, but.. and im not trying to be a dick here baddaddy, but i do have experience with state biologists. and from what i can tell, theyre all full of $*** they repeat the same lies and crap they read in their books to get their degrees and thats that. the stuff they spout off as factual is garbage. id trust your local biologists like id trust a used car salesman. just play it safe and carry a large caliber hand cannon with the biggest hcfn rounds it will shoot. and know how to shoot it! youll probably never need it, but you know the saying, better have it and not need it than the other way around.

[michi45]

Thank you guys for the replies. We'll have bear spray and I hope I do not repeat your friend's experience.

[baddaddy]

Dean, no offense taken. I just don't know what was said by the biologist so I wasn't going to speculate. When I lived in AK I did carry as you suggested. Mine was a .454 with 395 grain cast bullets.

[Indian Summer]

My question would be what interests you south of Livingston? How far south? Man that is ground zero for plummeting elk populations due to wolves. I'm sure there are resident elk that don't migrate into the park and if you have a solid tip on there to hunt you should be fine but make sure you know what to expect.

As far as griz... they are like any other predator, not really interested in crossing paths with us any more than we are them. Just be smart. Don't cook in the sleeping tent. Hand your food an night and when you are out hunting. In other words don't be a food source. Bear spray is more effective than a handgun honestly because you can miss the bullseye and still repel a bear. Does that mean leave the gun home? No. But don't leave the spray home either. If you kill elk be quick. You may want to end your days a bit early instead of having the potential for looking for elk in the dark.

Myself if I was going to hunt in griz country I'd buy myself some sleep at night by investing in a portable electric corral and I'd string it up around the perimeter if camp. I've hunted where there were griz but not as many as down there. Never took any precautions and never had any encounters. Been 25 to 50 yards from several in Alaska including a sow with 2 cubs and they behaved.... or I wouldn't be typing this. lol

[pd]

Scott, may I offer some non-specific advice?

I live in the same state as WaMuley, and do understand from whence he comes regarding state game biologists. However, my experience is completely different from his. I know a biologist who has been extremely cooperative with me; I have learned so much from him, and I really appreciate him.

Here is my advice for you: Just as you would do when soliciting a new attorney or real estate agent, get a referral from a local. By that I mean ask on this forum or elsewhere which state game biologist is trustworthy. Ideally this person would have experience in the area that you are researching. Thereafter, make him your friend, and he will give you advice not only on Smokey, but also on Bullwinkle (you are after elk, right?).

In my experience thus far, the state game biologist has been the single best source of information that I could find on a specific area and hunting scenario. Use this advice to your advantage.

[jmez]

I've hunted and camped in grizzly country. You just need to use your head and there is very little chance you will have a problem. No reason to be afraid of them but you damn sure need to respect them and play by their rules.

#1 keep a clean camp. Nothing in your tent or sleeping area that has any odor. This includes deodorant, chap stick, toothpaste, gum, and any type of food. Nothing in your tent or sleeping area that has had any of these things in it.

#2 find out the prevailing wind direction and put your cooking area 100 yards downwind of where you will be sleeping. Be very careful with your food. Don't leave anything out or around. If there are bears in the area they will likely check out the kitchen, don't give them a reason to come back. Be careful when you cook not to spill things. Do not burn any food or food packages in a fire. Keep a very clean kitchen. Again don't leave anything out with an odor, dish soap, spices, food packaging, etc.

#3 rig up a lightweight pully system and use paracord to use to hang your food. Figure out before you leave how many pullies you will need and what you will be hanging. You need to hang your toiletries, your food, all of your trash and your pack. If you get any game you will need to hanng all of your clothes that you had on while dressing and packing. I would keep extra clothing at the truck and change into it after hauling meat. Leave the soiled clothes at the truck and they should be locked in something not just thrown in the back. Very important that anything with an odor goes up the tree. It needs to be at least 10 foot off the ground and 4 foot from the trunk of a tree. The way we did this was tie a pole about 15 foot off the ground between two trees. You can tie and rig all of your pullies on the ground before putting the pole up. Not hard to climb a pine tree and get a pole up.

#4 make you kitchen area in a space that is wide open. You want to be able to see it from a distance, especially in the dark. Even if it is a far enough away to not be convenient.

#5 if you kill an elk or deer and are going to leave it overnight drag the gut pile at least 100 yards from the carcass. may keep them off the meat for a night. If you leave it, approach it very very carefully the next day and wait until it is light. If there is a bear on it or one has been there, you'll know, it is theirs leave it and walk away. Even if he/she isn't there they aren't far and won't like you messing with their meat.

#6 have a plan for meat if you kill something. Don't haul your meat back to the trailhead and stash it anywhere near a trail. You don't want some unsuspecting person to get bit because you left an elk just off the trail. Have something to lock it up in or haul it out to a locker.

#7 take bear spray and keep it in a place that you can get to it immediately and know how to deploy and use it. I won't get into the whole gun debate but the reality is that there are very few people capable of defending themselves with a handgun in the face of a grizzly attack. Very few. If you are going to take a handgun, grab the spray first.

#8 if you see one or have an encounter of any type don't hang around. go the other direction, a long ways. just get out of their way and area for the rest of the day.

Basically common sense and be smart. Hopefully others will chime in.

[Indian Summer]

Attach small "jingle bells" to your boot laces. That's what they do up in Katmai Park in Alaska. They will help avoid unexpected close encounters. Most bear encounters gone bad are because people didn't realize they had stumbled onto a bear.

How do you tell the difference between black bear poop and grizzly bear poop? Black bear poop has berries and vegetation in it. Grizzly poop has pieces of black bears and jingle bells in it.

[flystrait]

Very good advise jmez. Encounters and human conflicts happen in MT and WY every year, they do not like to publicize it due to scarring off the recreational usage of the lands and hunting. For me personally I have hunted areas with supposedly low desities and have not had a problem. But I would not hunt in a bears den meaning ground central. There are many more areas I can go with higher elk numbers and less stress. I have had friends elk taken from them by grizzlies and had them follow out their pack string to the parking lot etc. Other stories of a guy walking out of a logging road in the dark and all of a sudden he got knocked clear across the road and into the brush saved by his back pack that was torn up. A guy kills a bull waits till morning to track it in some thick brush the bear found him before he found the elk bit him up pretty good ended up in the hospital etc. There are stories after stories. For me I carry bear spray around my neck so when I turn to run they will nock me down go for my neck and spray them selves in the face Seriously for me elk hunting is hard enough I don't want or need the extra stress. Western Hunter had a show with Nate on a elk hunt in Grizzly country, yes a had a few encounters on and off the video during the hunt and he talked about the difficulty about hunting the area. It almost drove him to leave early due to all the stress. Not trying to scare you just enlighten you a little more about the reality of it.

Craig

[michi45]

Thank you guys for the advice. It is all pretty much what the biologist said. In reference to the number of elk in the area he did advise us to stay out of one particular area. If anyone here has any knowledge about the elk population in the area that would be helpful. I had asked him specifically about declining elk populations in the area due to predation and he replied that it was down from previous years but there was still a good population there. Any information would be great because we will not have an opportunity to scout before the season.

[Glacier Country]

There is a guy here in town that owns a bear spray company, he was attacked by a grizzly, while bowhunting for elk just north of here. Lets just say, that I could relate grizzly story after grizzly story. I try to avoid hunting where there are very many grizz, as I have had a few encounters myself. I had one push my camper around, once, while I was inside of it.
They don't always go away when you say," Bad Bear Bad Bear!" like they tell you to on animal planet! There are over 1000 grizzlies in the 100 series hunting districts of NW MT. They have not been hunted since 1986 so the sows are not teaching the cubs that humans mean danger. Instead they are teaching that humans mean food.... which is bad for the bears and US too.I see where just last week a warning was given out for the area surrounding Great Falls. That is Central Montana where just a few years ago that was almost unheard of. Last year in April a turkey hunter here, had to shoot a grizzly with a shotgun from 10 yards as it charged him. He was just out of town.
The Biologists here are not going to tell you the Whole story.... Bad for business. There a definite places, in MT that hunters get tore up almost every year it seems.

[Sean D.]

I use to hunt the area just south of Livingston in the early 2000's. Tons of elk then, but also lots of wolves and grizz. I quit hunting there in 05 if I remember right, just got to be too many wolves and the elk were dissapearing fast! Follow jmez's advice and you should be fine. I seen grizz but never had a problem with them luckily. A guy on a neighboring property was charged but lucky for him it was a false charge, neither he nor his guide had any kind of deterant other than his bow. Get a good spray like Udap and know how to use it. Dont keep it in your pack, its no good there! I was charged by a black bear once and trust me you dont want that from a grizz!

Why did you pick that area?

Its been a few years since I've been there but from what I've been told there are very few elk left except a few isolated pockets of them on private land! I know the last couple years I hunted there I seen or heard wolves almost everyday. I would buy a wolf tag just in case!

[Digit]

I have hunted in griz and wolf country most all my life. Best advice is keep the scent to a minimum food, meat, and anything with any smell needs kept high in a tree or in a bear box. another trick is to take a bottle of bleach and water with you and spray down tents. Be very mindful of your surroundings when making a kill. we usually post a guy with a taller view point and a high caliber rifle while cleaning and processing. Good luck on the hunt

[ishy]

As far as the gun thing goes Bugle had a great article I think last year that looked at the numbers and conclusion was that any gun (size didn't matter) didn't help the number or outcome of any attacks. Sure they make us feel good to carry, but as stated above you can't get it out and aimed with a grizz coming full throttle at you. Spray was the only thing that helped the number and severity of the attacks and they looked at a ton of encounters. I'll see if I can dig up the article.

[ishy]

September October 2012 Bugle page 70. I found a great link, but it ended at page 16 only a preview doh!