Shoot or No Shot.

[WapitiTalk1]

Been a while since we did one of these. Let's assume you're perched in your tree stand about 15 feet off the ground (I know the picture doesn't quite look like 15 feet but play along anyway). You hear this guy coming through the brush straight away and are at full draw when he steps out and stops right in the middle of the wallow. Shoot or no shot here for you. If you say shoot, please place a dot or X where your arrow is heading.

Reminder that if you save the picture to your desktop and open in MS Paint, you'll be able to place a spot, X, or whatever on the critter before you save it back to a jpg and add the marked up file with your post.

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[Swede]

I'm shootin.

Sorry I did not have time to draw you a map of where I shot, but it was a little high and just behind the right front leg. If I had waited, a'm afraid Indian Summer would have put the first arrow in. Can't have that. The bull is a little scrawny, but I love that pile of antlers. RJ: Can you fetch our freighters? I think Paul is still out there blowing on his bugle, can you bring him along too? We are going to be busy.

[BrentLaBere]

If I can control my shaking that is....
Editing dot got a tad forward for me..soo if I had to pick a hair out I would go towards the top left side of my dot

[WapitiTalk1]

RJ: Can you fetch our freighters? I think Paul is still out there blowing on his bugle, can you bring him along too? We are going to be busy.

Yah, yah... I told you I was suspicious when you placed "my" stand facing away from the wallow towards the rock wall. I trusted you when you said "that's where they usually come in" Why do I have to get the packs again (grumble, mumble)? Isn't it Stringunner's turn? He's just over the next ridge. Allright, I'm going but under protest.... (stomp, stomp, grumble, mumble)

[Swede]

Brent: I would shoot a little higher. I think at that angle you will get only one lung. The arrow is traveling downward fast. I know I might get a little shaky too on that dandy bull.

[easeup]

I'm shootin also before something goes real wrong, there is a good angle there and he doesn't know I am there....choooot!
I am going just a tad higher than the pic above me and a tad to the left also.
I'll be late for supper! woohooo!

[WapitiTalk1]

I'm with you guys at this angle and range, but, that scapula is looming large. A bit too far forward on the red dot and you're skipping rocks (yes, it's the shot that I would consider also...it will take out at least one lung, possibly two). Is anybody considering this shot below, yellow X? Just asking

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[ElkNut1]

No shot for me, I'll wait, way too much that can go wrong there. Lots of leg bone & scapula covering vitals. He will move as he's not anchored there for long. If I need him to stop for the shot as a better angle is presented I'd stop him in his tracks with a single nervous/popping grunt!

ElkNut1

[JJ Overkill]

man that's a tuff call. im sure I could blow through the scapula and hit the vitals but its still to risky for me. im waiting for a better shot.

[stringunner]

I'm shooting pretty close to the dot Brent put up. I don't think I would take the yellow x spot phantom put up, unless someone can convince me that is a good shot.

And yes, Swede if you shoot THAT bull in our area I will most definetly help you pack it out, if for no other reason than to say "yeah I saw the bull you are all talking about. And I heard the guy who shot it, did so in the grocery store parking lot!"

[Huntrgathr]

Sitting here looking at it on a computer screen I can see a place to put an x. Sharing the same airspace with that bull is a whole 'nother story. I'm not going to count on punching the scapula at a sharp down and quartering angle when I'm shsking like a leaf. I'll wait.

[otcWill]

No shot. Patience. I'll kill him with a perfect broadside shot in a sec.

A better question: What percentage of the "shooters" are recovering their elk?

[Fridaythe13th]

I would go with the Yellow X by Phanton if the bull look to bolt, if it was calm I would wait. Not going home with tag soup on this bull.

[ctdad]

One concern with planning to go through the scapula is that will decrease your odds of a pass through significantly for most bows (jj, I'm not talking to you). One hole, up high, through the scapula and you're likely to have a poor blood trail.

Aiming a little behind scapula hits one lung and liver with a likely pass through or at least an exit hole of some sort. I'd take that shot

[stringunner]

otcWill are you saying you don't feel the shot with the red dot is a high percentage shot for dead bull? Is that because of the angle and potential for 1 lung?

[otcWill]

I'm just saying that shot opps get MUCH better than that. I see a shot with a very small margin for error. Take into account that most hunters under stress will likely not hit EXACTLY where the X is located. Miss that shot by an inch or so in either direction and you'll not be seeing that bull again. I'm saying that letting a POSSIBLE opp. pass isn't the worste thing. Losing a bull like that after wounding it is the worste thing. I like to think I've done everything I can to make sure of a quick clean kill and in this situation that means waiting a second or two.

[stringunner]

I'm just saying that shot opps get MUCH better than that. I see a shot with a very small margin for error. Take into account that most hunters under stress will likely not hit EXACTLY where the X is located. Miss that shot by an inch or so in either direction and you'll not be seeing that bull again. I'm saying that letting a POSSIBLE opp. pass isn't the worste thing. Losing a bull like that after wounding it is the worste thing. I like to think I've done everything I can to make sure of a quick clean kill and in this situation that means waiting a second or two.

Thanks for that response. That is possibly one of the best written posts I have seen on these forums about why it is important to wait for the ideal shot. This reasoning can be applied to many of the shot placement threads posted, including frontal shots, sever quatering away shots and specifically quartering to shots.

[Swede]

I would shoot that bull right where and how he stands. I am confident there is no problem placing the arrow right where it needs to go, just as things are. I don't pass when the situation is good. You never know what can set him off, and he will explode out of there in a heartbeat. If I have the shot, I take it. If you are not comfortable or are shaky, then wait until the margin for error is greater.

[stringunner]

Agreed Swede, I'm taking that shot as well. For those that feel it is marginal and/or not feeling 110% confident I agree with otcWill to wait would be better. But for me, I'm taking it.

[Indian Summer]

I'm pulling up my .300 Ultra Mag and dumping him in his tracks!

Oh, you mean a bow? I'm giving it a second. Where I hunt vanishing is as easy as turning downhill. You will be in for a tracking job if you shoot tht bull right now. Yes.. I do agree there are possible lethal shots to be taken, but there's only one thin g worse than not taking a shot and that's regretting one. If he keeps moving forward I'll have a much better angle in a second. If he turns to my right he's toast. If turns to face me I'm in trouble but if so maybe he'll turn far enough to give me a shot at the other side. He's in about the only position I don't like so one way or another that giant freakin bbbull is going dddddown!

Another deciding factor: He is really close. Therefore I'm drawing my bow and I know there's no way he's getting past me without offering a shot.

Sometimes it takes experiences like watching an arrow stop only an inch into an animal and seeing him spin and take off to realize how what ifs turn into reality. If that doesn't do it 3 or 5 days of looking in the brush and coming up empty will. Elk are tough. Even perfect shot angles can be victims of uncontrollable factors. The fact that he is the bull of anyone's dreams shouldn't make a difference.

Swede this is where your tree stand pays off. You'd definitely be getting a better shot at him in a second from an elevated position.

[jmez]

I'm letting him have it.

[welka]

Haven't seen a good "x" spot yet and I am waiting. If you miss on the yellow or last X by less than 2", you hit the vertical ridge on the scapula and you waste the next two days hoping you find your elk after tracking drop, and drops, and drops of blood. I have seen less than 1" of penetration and a bent ferrule when the ridge enters the picture. Patience.

[JJ Overkill]

this is where I would aim IF I were going to attempt this shot. I did shoot my first whitetail in that exact spot. the arrow blew right through it and stuck into the ground 4". with my new setup im sure I would have the same results. I still have 1 test I need to run before my setup is complete. 3/4" plywood in front of my broad head target and see how much penetration I get if I get 20" with a one of the two heads it WILL be my head if it flies out to 90yds and groups good. im wondering if I want to run a 200gr 3 blade or 2 blade.

[Elkduds]

Not 4 me. The offside scapula is there to stop the arrow, if it gets through the facing shoulder. Maybe one lung, entrance wound high up, no exit wound, no blood trail. Steep down angles are harder to shoot accurately, or even range accurately. I'd rather have a longer shot, more broadside, less steep angle, so I'm waiting w my cow call ready to stop/turn this big daddy. And I'm taking photos, like the guy who took this one.

[JJ Overkill]

Not 4 me. The offside scapula is there to stop the arrow, if it gets through the facing shoulder. Maybe one lung, entrance wound high up, no exit wound, no blood trail. Steep down angles are harder to shoot accurately, or even range accurately. I'd rather have a longer shot, more broadside, less steep angle, so I'm waiting w my cow call ready to stop/turn this big daddy. And I'm taking photos, like the guy who took this one.

im assuming you don't hunt out of a tree stand. its a pretty common shot at that elevation. the angle of the animal is tough though. id have to disagree with you on the far side shoulder though. with my x mark its nothing but ribs on the far side. high entrance, low exit.

[WapitiTalk1]

OK, for those who decided to draw and wait for a few seconds, it worked out for you. Not saying that the other posters who already shot are wrong but your patience paid off and you're presented with this. Let's see your "X" now

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[Swede]

I know, I know. I have already shot, but if this situation presents itself, use the offside front leg as a pointer and go up the side of the bull about 1/3 of the way and poke a hole there.

[timberland]

I'm going to wait. I don't want to get muddy retrieving my arrow. On second thought ......breath, pick a spot, gentle squeeze, pphhhht. Which pin? Use'm ALL!!

[BrentLaBere]

Even though the bull I shot is dead .....Here is where I would put it on this angle.

[JJ Overkill]

my placement isn't that much different from BrentLabere's but I prefer to aim for the off side shoulder a touch more

[stringunner]

Even though the bull I shot is dead .....Here is where I would put it on this angle.

I'm going with the placement that Brent indicated as well.