Elk Speak, Part 1

[WapitiTalk1]

Actually, I think we've done a few of these before but titled them differently

It's a short clip with multiple bulls making various sounds. Your challenge, if you should decide to accept it, is to go through the clip and label the elk sounds as they occur at various times throughout the VID. Is the sound a location bugle with chuckles, a scream with grunts, etc.? You get the picture. I'll only ask that some of the seasoned guys hang back on this one for the first five posts or so and let some of the newer elk hunters take a crack at it. I guarantee that even the seasoned cats will have a difference of opinion on at least a few of them.

Let's hear your thoughts. What elk sounds are these bulls making? First five posts get a bag of cheetos (small size) from John Fitzerald

[Mikeha33]

OK, I'll give this a shot. Ill probably be wrong on every one, but here goes.
1. (:00) Location bugle
2. (:03) Location bugle with grunts
3. (:09) Growl, bugle, chuckles
4. (:16) Challenge bugle with grunts
5. (:23) Short bugle w/ grunt (Not sure what the low note at :24 is, maybe a post bugle growl)
6. (:27) Gathering bugle (Lets get outta here women!)
7. (:30) Grunt with popping
8. (:37) Challenge bugle
9. (:41) Pleading bugle with chuckle (C'mere cows!!!)
10. (48) Lip-bawl scream
11. (:52) low level threat bugle
12. (:56) Lip bawl scream

Hell, I dunno, they all sound the same after listening to them this many times!!!

[Swede]

R.J. how am I going to get a FREE bag of Cheetos from J.F. if I have to hang back? I expect mine delivered FRESH to elk camp John.

[JohnFitzgerald]

R.J. how am I going to get a FREE bag of Cheetos from J.F. if I have to hang back? I expect mine delivered FRESH to elk camp John.

Sure, and I promise not to lick each one before hand!

[WapitiTalk1]

R.J. how am I going to get a FREE bag of Cheetos from J.F. if I have to hang back? I expect mine delivered FRESH to elk camp John.

Sure, and I promise not to lick each one before hand!

Of course you will. Why wouldn't you

[ElkNut1]

I know there hasn't been 5 posts yet but I will say there are no location bugles in that clip! (grin)

ElkNut1

[WapitiTalk1]

Ok. It seems like only Mike will win the bag of Cheetos (hopefully not pre licked ) for an early post. Anybody else wanna chime in before I open it up to the old salts?

[JohnFitzgerald]

Ok. It seems like only Mike will win the bag of Cheetos (hopefully not pre licked ) for an early post. Anybody else wanna chime in before I open it up to the old salts?

I make no promises! A licked cheeto from John is like a Hallmark Card.

[stringunner]

Ok I will bite. I'm a bit rusty as I haven't been listening to my Sounds by the Elk cd lately and I only listened one time through due to lack of time...but here goes on the fly:

1. Simple advertising bugle
2. Bugle with chuckles- saying come to me
3. Same but with different intensity
4.Bugle with grunts - perhaps feeling a little threatened
5.Bugle with 1 grunt - I mean it, stay away
6.Round up bugle???
7.Bugle with chuckles - where are you, show yourself
8. Advertising bugle - maybe or ....
9. Bugle with grunts - Stay away or else???
10. Advertising bugle - perhaps to his cows, I'm still here ladies
11. Bugle with 1 grunt - semi threatened??
12. Bugle with grunts - stay away, I'm getting irritated??

Correct me but I don't think I heard any "lip bawl" bugles per say...
Ok flame away, but I didn't want Mikeha33 to be the only one in contention for the bag of Cheetos!

[JohnFitzgerald]

I heard a lot of lip bawls in there. Come on RJ, when can we post!

[WapitiTalk1]

OK, the moratorium is over. Mikeha33 and stringunner win the Cheetos snacks (hopefully without a side serving of JF's saliva). I also hear a handful of lip bawls with several of the bull shout outs.

My thread, I go first (neener, neener, neener) I already shared my thoughts with a couple of Elknuts so I can't change my interpretations based on "the" Elknut's comments/post (frickin frackity, dang nabbit).

I hear 12 bull elk noises and I hear them as follows:

1. Location bugle.
2. Location or advertising bugle with chuckles.
3. Roundup or calling cows to him bugle with chuckles.
4. Similar to number 3.
5. Short scream with grunt or two.
6. Scream or roundup bugle.
7. Scream or roundup bugle with chuckles.
8. Advertising bugle.
9. Challenge with a few grunts.
10. Lip bawl/scream calling his cows (they're obviously lagging behind).
11. Location or advertising bugle.
12. Lip bawl/scream calling his cows.

Kudos to Mikeha33 and stringunner for putting their thoughts out there. Not too shabby IMO. For the rest of you, let's hear your interpretations and spark some spicey conversation

[JohnFitzgerald]

1. Calling Cows bugle
2. Lip Bawl / Chuckles
3. Calling Cows Bugle / Chuckles
4. Challenge Bugle / Grunts
5. Challenge Bugle / Grunts
6. Calling Cows Bugle
7. Lip Bawl / Chuckles
8. Lip Bawl
9. Challenge Bugle / Grunts
10. Lip Bawl
11. Challenge Bugle
12. Calling Cows Bugle

[Swede]

What I got out of the video is the same as what JF noted. I hate to admit he could be right, but that was what I heard.

[Wyo67]

Here's my two cents:
1 at :00) Roundup bugle - trying to keep his herd with him
2 at :03) Even with the lip bawl still think it's an advertising bugle (here I am) with the chuckles
3 at :09) Calling cows to him
4 at :16) Challenging bugle with the lip bawl
5 at :23) Another roundup bulge with chuckles
6 at :27) Rounding up his cows
7 at :30) Calling cows to him with the chuckles he may be getting irritated at the not seeing the cow (or hunter )
8 at :37) Challenging lip bawl
9 at :41) Calling cows to him
10 at :48) Lip bawl screaming challenge. Getting angry.
11 at :52) Not sure. Think he may be calling to his cows to stay get together
12 at :57) Again not sure. Think he's responding to a cow and trying to call her to him

[tdiesel]

my list is very close to JF except bugle number 4 I had picked as an urgent scream with chuckles rather than a challenge with grunts like saying cow over here NOW!! Curious of paul's interpretations????

[JohnFitzgerald]

I think several we're roundup bugles as well but didn't separate them out from calling cows bugle. Just not sure of the difference at times.

Challenge lipbawl? Never really heard that phrase before. Aren't lip bawls mostly used on cows? I'm curious.

[Mikeha33]

I'll be expecting my Cheetos delivery at about 11500' on September 10th. That'll be a nice treat! At that point, I couldn't care less if they had some of JF's saliva or not on them!!!

[JohnFitzgerald]

p.s I was a little confused on a couple like # 4. So I made my best guess. What's interesting is how many short calling cows/round up bugles actually had lip bawls in them. Really, I only heard one bugle that was a true lip bawl from beginning to end.

[WapitiTalk1]

What's interesting is how many short calling cows/round up bugles actually had lip bawls in them. Really, I only heard one bugle that was a true lip bawl from beginning to end.

I was anxious to post and discuss the bull noises in this particular video. What I liked about it is that is contains so many pure examples of chuckling! It was a plus that so many lip bawls were mixed in also. The area(s) these bulls were filmed "obviously" had some cow attention competition going on which is why I think all the calling cows to him, roundup, pay attention to me "screams", etc. were heard. Lip bawls, screams, calling cows to him, and roundup bull sounds are all asking/demanding the same thing "attention". That said, isn't it logical that lip bawls (signature bull sounds that make his voice unique and known to others, and, a sound used to control/contact/call other cows) can be mixed in and accompany the other types of attention bull sounds? Just thinking out loud

Anyone else wanna chime in on these elk sounds?

[BrentLaBere]

Shortly here I would like to. Just need some time to listen in. I will throw my two cents at it.

[tdiesel]

p.s I was a little confused on a couple like # 4. So I made my best guess. What's interesting is how many short calling cows/round up bugles actually had lip bawls in them. Really, I only heard one bugle that was a true lip bawl from beginning to end.

I suppose its all in the mind frame you look at the situation. It really needs to be read in the context of things I just pictured it as a bull responding to a cow call and the cow not coming towards him. all these clips are hard because we only get a small window of the whole scene. it like taking one line out of a book. I could about make that book say anything. by reading the chapter you get what was really being meant.

[>>>---WW---->]

Dang near gives you a boner just listening to all that noise. The last time I heard anything like that was in a rutting hole. Several cows were in estrus and just about every bull within hearing and smelling distance was there looking for you know what. And the fact is they were all so worked up over the rut that none of them knew or even cared what they were saying. They were all there just trying to impress the ladies and warn other bulls of their presence

[stringunner]

p.s I was a little confused on a couple like # 4. So I made my best guess. What's interesting is how many short calling cows/round up bugles actually had lip bawls in them. Really, I only heard one bugle that was a true lip bawl from beginning to end.

So I was having a difficult time picking out the "lip bawls" I guess I was looking for more a drawn out "beginning to end" lip bawl bugle. I recognized most of the bugles as calling cows but definitely gained a new perspective on a lip bawl bugle and how it might be mixed in and very short snipets of other bugles.

[JohnFitzgerald]

How many listened more than once to get a true sense of what each bull was saying?

Here's my extra take on it:
I agree completely with tdiesel about only getting a small clip. A few sounds were very clear and others were a little harder to understand. Hunters too get small clips in real life action.

Some criticize for "over thinking" and say we should just keep it simple. Yes, there was two simple and common messages in all the bulls of that video(challenge and invitation). Out in the field we don't have a rewind button so completely understanding the first time is very important.

I believe we don't "over think" elk hunting or strategy but instead we try to analyze elk behavior and sounds. If you want to hunt every bull the same way, weather he sent out a challenge or invitation, then go for it. Me, I want to know what the bulls vocal intent is before I even plan a strategy. Breaking down elk audio is a key way for me to learn.

My 2 - cents and worth nothing more.

jf

[ElkNut1]

Bill, that's it! I'm calling your wife & showing her the post you wrote so she can see how you act when she's not around! (big grin) Geez, what am I going to do with you?????

ElkNut1

[JohnFitzgerald]

Ummm.....just in case. Paul my wife lives far away and has no phone. In fact, she's in the witness protection program and is located in Africa in a small Zimbabwe village. The only form of communication is by plane. Last I heard , she only speaks IsiNdebele.

[>>>---WW---->]

After 40 years she knows better Paul But I'll bet I got this one right, especially if they are all in the same area. How's that for analizing, John!

By the way, did anyone notice the bull that was so horace he could barely bugle. Most likely he was the herd bull of the bunch. He was just about bugled out trying to keep all those other harassing bulls at bay.

[JohnFitzgerald]

After 40 years she knows better Paul But I'll bet I got this one right, especially if they are all in the same area. How's that for analizing, John!

By the way, did anyone notice the bull that was so horace he could barely bugle. Most likely he was the herd bull of the bunch. He was just about bugled out trying to keep all those other harassing bulls at bay.

And who said you were wrong? I guess I don't get your point in using my name.

Those video are spliced together. Who's to say they were taken in the same area or even in the same year.

[Csrbowhunter]

I have a question for everyone and I'm curious how everyone would call back to the bull. Let's just try bull 2 and 4!

Ok to be fair I'll give my answer first.
Bull 2 I'd give some real whiny cow calls for awhile then might throw in a squeaky spike bugle with chuckles.
Bull 4 I would challenge bugle with chuckles and I would try to cut him off when I do it.

[JohnFitzgerald]

I have a question for everyone and I'm curious how everyone would call back to the bull. Let's just try bull 2 and 4!

Give 2 what he wants, cows. And give 4 what he doesn't want....a challenger getting close. (But I'm not convinced 4 was a Challenge Bugle)

My Dos Centos!

p.s. Hey you changed your initial post on me!

[Csrbowhunter]

I have a question for everyone and I'm curious how everyone would call back to the bull. Let's just try bull 2 and 4!

Give 2 what he wants, cows. And give 4 what he doesn't want....a challenger getting close. (But I'm not convinced 4 was a Challenge Bugle)

My Dos Centos!

p.s. Hey you changed your initial post on me!

Sorry I didn't think it would be fair to not give my answer first!
Did you like my answer or what do you think?

[JohnFitzgerald]

I think those sound like good tactics and I'd just might use them. Let me ask you a question, what would you do if you were say 80 yards away and he was only screaming back at you but wouldn't commit?

Now my turn to edit my post....he he he!

What does everyone else think? I'm just one guy who now's how to blow a call. That's all!

[Csrbowhunter]

I think those sound like good tactics and I'd just might use them. Let me ask you a question, what would you do if you were say 80 yards away and he was only screaming back at you but wouldn't commit?

Thick cover or not?
Bull 4 I'd probably challage bugle him again then start raking a tree if thick enough.

[Csrbowhunter]

Bull 2 I'd do a level two threat if thick cover.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Bull 2 I'd do a level two threat if thick cover.

What would you do if bull 2 went silent, but you knew he was still in the area?
(I'm not leading you to the answer I would give, I want to hear what you would do.)

[Csrbowhunter]

Bull 2 I'd do a level two threat if thick cover.

What would you do if bull 2 went silent, but you knew he was still in the area?
(I'm not leading you to the answer I would give, I want to hear what you would do.)

I would do some pleading cow calls and move back some like I was leaving.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Bull 2 I'd do a level two threat if thick cover.

What would you do if bull 2 went silent, but you knew he was still in the area?
(I'm not leading you to the answer I would give, I want to hear what you would do.)

I would do some pleading cow calls and move back some like I was leaving.

Yep, I think that might get him to commit.

RJ, what do you do when satellite bulls go silent all of a sudden? Same question for you flystrait?

[Csrbowhunter]

Bull 2 I'd do a level two threat if thick cover.

What would you do if bull 2 went silent, but you knew he was still in the area?
(I'm not leading you to the answer I would give, I want to hear what you would do.)

I would do some pleading cow calls and move back some like I was leaving.

Yep, I think that might get him to commit.

RJ, what do you do when satellite bulls go silent all of a sudden? Same question for you flystrait?

Jf, I'm still learning so any help you could give me would be great! I live in Ohio so I only elk hunt two weeks a year out of the last 5-6 years.

[flystrait]

[ Play Quicktime file ] New Recording 30.m4a [ 356.07 KiB | Viewed 17312 times ]

I would throw one of these out at him and he will respond, talking about bull #2. When he comes running in the shooter will kill em. This is a practice session that me and my 16 year old son was doing last night based on this video.

[WapitiTalk1]

Not so sure # 2 is a satellite.. but perhaps. I think his cows are behind him and he's knocking the snot out of some vegetation and sounding off. If I were in the position of the camera is at that moment in time, I would have probably already sent my shooter off to the right of the small opening (wind dependent) and quite possibly, lit the bull up with a nasty voice like flystrait demonstrated (nice noises Craig.. sounds like junior is giving dad some competition). I think csrbowhunter is on the mark with using the threat and with being that close, it would be 100% pitchy, whiny cow sounds over my shoulder, or into the dirt (like they were being drug off by terroritsts), followed by a mountain shaking SCREAM directly at Bullwinkle. That would dislodge old stinky.

What do I do if a satellite stops wanting to play and goes silent? On to the next bull That's just me.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Csrbowhunter -

Absolutely bud! I think many guys on here would be happy to help. The one thing that you rarely hear from me is that a hunter needs to be well rounded. Honestly, I suck at spot-and-stock! Honestly, I suck at choosing a good tree-stand location. And every year, I regret it.

Everyone who posts an opinion on here does it based on their experience. That or they are making everything up....which I doubt anyone does. Review every piece of information, no matter how small or who it comes from. Example, how many of you caught WW's comment about the throaty bull? I sure did and what I got out of it was that a throaty bull probably has a cow or two in estrus and so he's been verbally fighting off satellite all day and night. Prime opportunity for a challenge because he's already really pissed off?

People might see my questioning as a challenge to their opinion, but honestly I just want more information. I don't believe I've ever said to myself, well that's a dumb idea and I'm going to post why. On occasion I've stated "not proven to me". But for me that's a plead for more information.

So, here's my opinion on what to do when a satellite bull goes silent.

Usually first thing I do is locate bugle and the response I get combined with the time of year, his location, time of day, accompanying sound, or lack of sounds will determine which tactic I use throughout the entire encounter. So let's say I'm working a hot satellite bull and he stops talking when I'm 80 yards from him but yet I can still hear him pacing back and forth. Give a bull what he wants until, it stops working. Then give him what he doesn't want.....the cow leaving.

You stated the exact tactic that I would use. See you know just as much as I do about that situation.....you just needed a question ask of you in order for it to come out. So now maybe a lurker, just learned something new from you.

My other options would be a hooked cow sequence and possibly just to go silent with or without ground noise. Just depends on his response to the his initial location bugle and his sounds there after.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Sorry, I didn't mean #2 was a satellite. I meant a satellite in general going quiet.

Look....squirrel!

[Csrbowhunter]

John,

For me I try to learn as much as I can before I'm in the elk woods. That is the biggest reason I'm on this site as much as I can be. For me it really helps talking or in this case posting with guys like you and hear what you would do in certain situations. I watch elknuts DVDs over and over again and it seems the more experience I get the more I understand what he's talking about. The first time I watched his DVDs I thought all the bugles sounded the same to me! Now I can tell the difference and in some cases know what I should do.

[JohnFitzgerald]

John,

For me I try to learn as much as I can before I'm in the elk woods. That is the biggest reason I'm on this site as much as I can be. For me it really helps talking or in this case posting with guys like you and hear what you would do in certain situations. I watch elknuts DVDs over and over again and it seems the more experience I get the more I understand what he's talking about. The first time I watched his DVDs I thought all the bugles sounded the same to me! Now I can tell the difference and in some cases know what I should do.

Your on your way to becoming a slayer! From your previous post, I think you will do very well this year.

I'd be happen to bounce idea's with you anytime. I'm still pondering your herd bull encounter mentioned in another thread.

[Csrbowhunter]

John,
You too brother! Yeah that bull was tuff and frustrating. Earlier you said to go silent on the bull. On a different thread I told a story where I did that but for me I went silent because I was moving in on him. To my surprise he went to where I just was but I was going to where he was, so I didn't get him. I don't know if you turkey hunt but some times that's the best tactic is to go silent if he just keeps gobbling back to you but won't come.

[flystrait]

Sorry John, I thought we were talking about Bull#2 as well. If any satellite bull goes silent after calling to him and we are close, I would not make another sound as well and see if he is sneaking in to check things out. I would not wait very long maybe 5-10 min, after that I would move on and find another.

[ElkNut1]

Finally was able to listen to the clip, the majority of the bugling were either advertising bugles or calling cows that they heard, saw or smelled, basically there's little difference in either of those, it both cases they wanted cows to come their way. There were a couple of course growly challenges as well used to ward of other bulls that must have been close by. It's pretty obvious which were which.

ElkNut1