Locating Elk From The Outside

[Swede]

Many of the people that would love to effectively hunt elk DIY, on an over the counter area, live hundreds or even more than a thousand miles away. There is a lot of questionable advise available on where to go, but how would you locate a new place out of State? How would you separate good advise from blat. How would you be sure it is good advice for the time and way you want to hunt? Secondly, How much time will a person need to spend to learn the new area, before they can become a serious predator? Third: If I am a seasoned Whitetail hunter, what do I need to pitch in the trash can of my knowledge as it pertains to elk hunting, and what should I keep?

[cohunter14]

How would I locate a place out of state? Pretty simple. I would randomly pick one of the 'elknuts' on this forum (Swede, WW, IndianSummer, Cnelk, John Fitzgerald, Jaquemo, ElkNut, Phantom, etc) and I would get really good at stalking them! Figure out where they live, what vehicle they drive, and go from there. As soon as you see them loading up their truck to head to camp, be ready to follow them!

Seriously, you bring up a good point Swede. It is not only very difficult to figure out where to hunt, but what advice to trust and believe and how to go about the hunt. As far as choosing a spot or unit to hunt, I truthfully think that is the easiest thing to do, but probably gets the most time spent on it. There are so many spots that hold elk in the west and if you put any one of those people that I mentioned earlier into an elk unit, I can guarantee they will find elk. So what separates those people? Personally I think it is the time they have spent to learn, whether that is on here, scouting, internet scouting, and out in the field hunting. How long will it take to become a 'serious predator'? That depends on the amount of time you put into it. If you don't scout your area ahead of time, do only a couple hours of internet scouting, poke around here once a month, and spend three days in the field hunting, it could take a LONG time. However, if you dedicate serious time to the passion of elk hunting, you could become a 'serious predator' fairly quick! Really, everything boils down to the time you put in. You have to spend the time and constantly be learning and adapting. How do you separate good advice from bad? By spending the time yourself figuring out if it is good or bad. But I would also listen a lot more to the successful hunters who actually harvest elk rather than the friend who has 'seen' elk a couple of times hunting.

[elkmtngear]

I'm in this boat right now. I have my regular "honey holes"...but they are well over a thousand miles away. I got a hot tip from a guy that puts on a lot of boot leather for a spot very close to home, comparitively.

I trust this guy, he is actually well respected in the Outdoor Industry.

I have pored over this area on Google Earth. He had given me a verbal description of the approximate area he had located elk in. I put a pin on the spot I thought would hold elk, and e-mailed it to him. He replied that I was "dead on".

I am fortunate that I will be able to physically scout it, since it is reachable. The number of elk per acre will be nowhere near what I am used to hunting if I commit to that area, but the prospect of killing a bull so close to home is really appealing.

I think hunting elk from a distance (in a new area) is always a huge challenge for anyone. I would recommend trying to do a late Summer scouting trip beforehand if there is any way possible. I know I will certainly be heading up there on multiple occasions.

[WapitiTalk1]

As said many times before, nothing compares to BOG (boots on the ground) for elk area scouting. This being said guys/gals, don't be disheartened... many folks who actually live in or close to elk country start their research on new areas the same way the distant hunters do... map work, calls to the state's DEPT of Wildlife, checking previous year hunter success rates for the type of weapon hunted with for a particular or several Game Management Areas, and, don't sleep on calls to the USFS Ranger District folks (they are the BOG folks for sure). This new fangled internet thing and a few forums have assisted many an aspiring elk slayer also. Putting all of these tools in motion and comparing the information gathered can ultimately paint a pretty good picture of the pressure and success rates for the area you've targeted. Lastly, I think perhaps one of the best ways up your odds, if you're a relatively new elk hunter, is to try to tag along with somebody who has the experience. This can really shorten your learning curve. How much time to learn a new area? Not sure, I'm still learning some of the areas I've hunted for many years. I would say spending two weeks hunting an area each year for 3 years seems to be about average for figuring them out to where you're consistently getting into elk daily or even twice per day. It takes some time to familiarize yourself with an area. Difference in mannerisms between wapiti and whitetail, and, proper tactics? There are some similarities. Gotta work the wind..always; use their elevated testosterone/estrogen levels and associated behavior against them during the rut; both can be baited (state laws dependent) but elk are not as susceptible to baiting as WTs IMO; and I'm sure there's a few more tools in your WT kit that transfer over to elk hunting. Elk: Gotta learn the elk language (what they're saying and how to use it to your advantage in the numerous situations you find yourself in); learning the five hunter made elk sounds Elknut recommends can pay huge dividends; gotta be in much better shape than for the average WT hunt; be prepared to hunt very remote areas where commo with the outside world is limited or absent completely (no cell service); you've gotta be mentally prepared to hunt in an area that may contain up to three very nasty predator species (brown bear, mountain lions, wolves). Lastly, there's not much that can prepare a new elk hunter for the experience of having a mature bull bulldozing through the alder to come clean your clock. It's flatly left some guys in a rubbery heap with their knees a knocking........Priceless

[weaver]

I was in this situation 2 years ago.
I believe beginners (myself included) way over think which state and unit to hunt. If someone mentions a unit on the internet its most likely not were they hunt or even their backup.
My strategy is to find a unit with rugged country were I can get at least 3 miles off the road. Doesn't matter which state.
The thing I think most whitetail hunters do wrong is assume elk are in every drainage and patch of woods like whitetails back home. Need to find the elk before you can hunt them.
I'm still very much a newbie but I have never failed to get into elk. Actually killing one with the bow is a different story. Hopefully 2014 is my year.

[timberland]

Network, homework, footwork in that order. This is how we were successful in a new area last time. Found a spot a friend rifle hunted in the past. Made sure it was ok for us to archery hunt. He had limited info due to the lateness of his season but pointed out areas he saw elk and some good campsites. 8 months of internet research (thats been discussed at length in other threads). Driving the 20+ hours we formulated a game plan to cover the most ground in the shortest amount of time. 5 guys hunted 5 different areas until someone found elk. From that point on we were into elk every day. Net resultwas a five pt. And a cow. Not too bad considering I was the only one that hunted elk in the past. One thing those guys didn't understand before the trip is how BIG elk country is. Another thing it took them a while to realize is how aggressive you can and need to be. My friend that keyed us in on the spot was grateful for all the recon info we were able to provide and he tagged out a month later. Win win

[cnelk]

Something to ponder.

Over 30 years ago [close to 35 years ago] I hunted rifle elk for the very first time.
I was a teenager when my dad, my uncle and I came to Colorado as NR and hunted.
We had only hunted WT deer in Minnesota.

I dont even remember what season it was, but it was in October.
We didnt have the internet, a friend to show us, or anything.
We just went elk hunting by using what we knew about the woods, animals and wind.

Guess what.
We went home with two 5 point bulls.

And just to be sure it wasnt luck, we did it the year later and came home with two more.

We didnt compare WT hunting to elk hunting, we didnt even have a topo or GPS.
We just found some likely north facing mountains that had some old logging roads and we HUNTED.

Lucky? I doubt it.
You got to be woods and animal savvy

Newcomers nowadays have it made

[Indian Summer]

No question an inside tip is the best way. Otherwise you're just throwing a dart at a map. Even if it's a friend of a friend or you hear the wife say her coworkers friend went on an elk hunt. Make it a point to make contact. Hopefully they did well enough to pass on a starting point.

How long to learn it? Depends on how many details you get before you go. But no matter how much you study a topo or use GE it will all look different when you get there. So the first year you're there you'll be moving a little faster than if you knew the place. You'll get comfortable with your surroundings, hopefully contact some animals, and hope for a little luck. No doubt you can find elk if the tip was a good one. Year two you are light years ahead of year one. Probably have a favorite place where you have high hopes for. You'll hunt more effectively and may expand the area you know so you could still be in explore mode this year. Year three... well, sure depends on the previous two years. If they went progressively well year three could be pretty productive. No way you can use the words "know it like the back of my hand" but you'll definitely know enough to be dangerous. If you're just not seeing the amount of critters you consider satisfactory not then you are going to have to make a difficult decision. Figure out if it's the area or your tactics. If it's the area don't waste another minute. Take a deep breath and relocate. Chalk up those hunts as a valuable education and move on.

So, if you haven't relocated I say year 4 is a big one. If the elk are there & you stick with the spot after the 4th year you have a place you know and call home.

As far as adaptations going from deer to elk: Remember... it's not far at all from one deer or group of deer to the next, but you may have to forget about sneaky for awhile and cover some ground finding each group of elk. There's a lot more dead space between them.

[>>>---WW---->]

A little tip every now and then sure doesn't hurt. But you need to learn how to separate the GS from the BS. GS=Good Stuff! BS= well you can guess but Bad Stuff fits also!

But regardless of the 3-Ts, Tips Topos, and Tactics, nothing beats burning shoe leather.

[elk-n-walleye]

When I didn't draw in my home unit again last year I had to do something. I am out of state in school so missing one season was tolerable but two seasons without a hunt... wasn't an option. so I went with an OTC general tag. So I did what lots of NR do, research. I started with friends/family in elk areas. Then I looked at harvest reports to get a sense of abundance of elk for those given areas. If people are reporting harvests then there has got to be elk, right. Higher the harvest #'s must mean more elk. I then spent lots of time on FS maps and GE finding access and typical elk habitat. I had established plan A (fished it a couple times, easier access, but lower harvest #s) and plan B (less access and higher harvest #s). I flew in and stayed one night with family then headed into the mtns the next morning with my dad. We decided to go with plan B which was probably wise. Granted we didn't bring an elk home last year but I had plenty of encounters.

it was a new area for us but we knew elk were up there. We were not able to do any preseason scouting. it was just a matter of doing the work on the ground to find them.

[Indian Summer]

Elk n Eyes... will you go back there? If so how would you look at things differently on your 2nd trip there? If you planned to stick with that spot how long would you guess it will take you to figure some things out? Always interesting to hear what people at certain stages of the game are thinking.

[ctdad]

As a whitetail hunter, when I first started looking for elk hunting locations, I thought I needed to get away from "the crowds". I whitetail hunt on private ground with no other hunting pressure on the property. I thought I wanted that type of hunt and I would just go farther in than everyone else was willing to go. What I've learned is that not only is that not possible, but it really isn't necessary. I don't hope to see other hunters where I'm hunting, but I've seen others and I don't feel they significantly affect my hunting (but I've never hunted somewhere that had intense hunting pressure). It was said here recently that elk country is large and swallows you up.

[Mofarmboy]

This thread describes the situation my group is in all of us are rookie elk hunters eager to learn. Right now we're in the researching phase spending alot of time on GE and cdows maps. We've got a little inside info to work with on a specific area so that's the unit we're looking at right now. Our plan is to split up in pairs and cover as much good looking ground as possible. Now we just have to learn what good looking elk ground looks like:)

[elk-n-walleye]

Elk n Eyes... will you go back there? If so how would you look at things differently on your 2nd trip there? If you planned to stick with that spot how long would you guess it will take you to figure some things out? Always interesting to hear what people at certain stages of the game are thinking.

If I don't draw my home unit I'm definitely going back. I was in elk daily and I even let a couple arrows fly. My first was deflected by a branch and my second stopped by a shoulder blade So I had my chances. Last year was my first archery hunt after years of rifle hunting. I have had 4 1/2 months to figure some things out already and this is what I'll do differently now that I've gained some more archery education.
A) More effective Calling (playbook). I had some success solo calling but would have benefitted from caller/shooter set-ups
B) Use their patterns more effectively. I basically learned which direction they head when bumped.
C) Better calling/moving during a solo encounter (more playbook)
D) Stay out all day and go in further (see B above). I stayed close to my dad who had strained his knee (pre-opening day scouting hike) so I could check in with him at lunch each day.

Miscellaneous
1. This may sound unlikely but its true. As many times as I encountered elk I never once smelled them. I wasn't sure if it was there diet (lots of mushrooms) or the abundance of water that kept their smell down. Anybody have thoughts on this?
2. The elk seemed unaffected by pressure even after I bumped them. They were right in the mix of atv/motorcycle trails that had heavy use while I was there, not to mention the numerous hunters that were camped along the main 4x4 road who had to be in the forest too. I found the elk each morning in the same general area.

There are other things but I would take any tips anyone has to offer.

[Swede]

Miscellaneous 1. This may sound unlikely but its true. As many times as I encountered elk I never once smelled them. I wasn't sure if it was there diet (lots of mushrooms) or the abundance of water that kept their smell down. Anybody have thoughts on this? 2. The elk seemed unaffected by pressure even after I bumped them. They were right in the mix of atv/motorcycle trails that had heavy use while I was there, not to mention the numerous hunters that were camped along the main 4x4 road who had to be in the forest too. I found the elk each morning in the same general area.

1. I believe you have not been downwind of nearby elk. Air currents where the elk are may not be the same as where you are, so it could appear that the wind is coming straight from the elk to you, when it really isn't.
2. I have hunted elk with nearby logging and industrial activity, and the elk were not effected. Log trucks and other vehicles passing by on the road did not bother the elk, but once people got out of their vehicle and start coming after them they changed. There sure is a difference between common vehicle traffic and elk hunters coming.

[elk-n-walleye]

Swede, I pm'd you. Don't want to take thread further off topic.

[Swede]

elk-n-walleye: I got your PM. Thanks. I'm sorry I am out of bullets when it comes to covering your dilemma. Maybe someone else can shed some light on the subject.

[Indian Summer]

Swede, I pm'd you. Don't want to take thread further off topic.

Stray away E&W! Nobody around here minds. our ramblings is when it gets good. You can start a thread of your own if you want to as well.

Elk smell. I didn't say stink because I love that stench! It's an unmistakable odor too. Thick like a barnyard. Swede is probably right about the wind. But if you walked into a place where they had bedded within the last 12 hours you'd know it.

As far as elk becoming desensitized to human activity. Absolutely but very dependent on where they live. Elk in a high wilderness basin will raise an eyebrow to a campfire for sure! They won't abandon the area just because of that. They smell smoke naturally too. But in areas like that if you bump them once they react more than elk that at the very least hear vehicles whizzing by down below all the time. In the Bitterroot the "west side canyons" are an incredible sight. Each one has a name and they are separated by massive walls of rock. Sheep and goats live up on top of of the walls that divide them. You can get up there in a few places but mostly you'd need repelling gear. The best way to learn the secret passages from one canyon to the next is bump elk! They don't play games up there... bump them once they run to the opposite side of the canyon and stop. From there they can see and hear everything coming from over where you are. If you follow them and bump them a 2nd time they use their little goat paths between the rocky crags and vacate that entire canyon. Then you are a lonely camper because hunting the next canyon over is NOT going to happen! I hate those places. Instead I hunt where there's a plan B & C that I can turn and try.

But there are elk that sneak out into people's pastures at night too. Elk that feed on forest service roads at night and roll around the corner or drop into the dark hole below the road and bed. Those elk are used to us. Like swede said and this is 110% true... you can drive by all day long but if you are spotted 100 yards down the hill it's a whole other ball game. Gone! But those elk don't tend to run as far. They go maybe to the next little finger over a half mile away. Maybe the one just beyond that. But you can catch up to them for sure.

One time I missed a bull with my gun. I was shooting through really skinny lanes between a field of burnt trees. No question I hit a tree. They ran off sidehill away from me. After just a bit their tracks turned downhill which was common right there. So instead of getting right in their tracks hoping to catch up from behind I stayed level which put me above their tracks. For awhile I could see the line of tracks in the snow below me but they went into some timber and I lost them. But I wasn't far from a gated road and those elk knew the game. They didn't usually go too far too fast. So I took my time and still hunted along. Even picked up a little bit of elevation at one spot. About 1200 yards out which almost 3/4 of a mile I looked ahead as far as I could which was about 125 yards and there is this bull standing there. He is broadside at the lip of a hill with his neck stretched out as far as he could peeking over the lip down at the backtrail of the cows waiting to see if a predator was on their path. So I ate him!.

Side note: Me and that bull had been eye to eye once before. Earlier that year in the 3rd week of September I was dogging a herd of about 20 elk late in the morning. About 18 cows and calves, a 5 point bull, and a nice 6 point herd bull. I knew it was time for them to bed so I was in no hurry and not worried that they might all of the sudden get away from me by covering a mile real quick. They came to the point where the sidehill was going to roll around a point. So my plan was to cut up over the top and get down on the other side before they made their way around. I knew I could beat them there. The hard part of course was the uphill. I hauled ass up there and made it to the top knowing by how long it took that I was going to get there in time to set up. Right on top a bull busts me and takes off right past the rest of the herd blowing them out of there. He had moved above the herd and was kinda keeping an eye on things from above. That was a factor in my decision to stay well above the tracks this other day. When I saw his neck stretched out, eyes peering downhill I was like "well looky here, the watch dog who blew my chance at the big bull last month!" Wham!

[Triplebhunters]

Many of the people that would love to effectively hunt elk DIY, on an over the counter area, live hundreds or even more than a thousand miles away. There is a lot of questionable advise available on where to go, but how would you locate a new place out of State? How would you separate good advise from blat. How would you be sure it is good advice for the time and way you want to hunt? Secondly, How much time will a person need to spend to learn the new area, before they can become a serious predator? Third: If I am a seasoned Whitetail hunter, what do I need to pitch in the trash can of my knowledge as it pertains to elk hunting, and what should I keep?

Where to go? = what style of hunt do you want? Off the road? Seven miles in? Decide what turns you on. CALL the division of wildlife in the state you want to go, have your notes ready! You can't expect the older hunters to tell you where to go out west any more than you could expect someone In Your local neighborhood tell you where that 160 class WT is. And some states have great websites some not so great but learn them anyway. I chose the area I hunt because it's rough country; A because it is what I always envisioned. B I thought there would be less people there. Was I wrong, you may think you're a tough outdoorsman (outdoors women), but those westerners kick butt. And there is people, hunters, hikers, campers, school field trips ( they teach them tough at a young age), and don't forget the antis. But yes you can get away from them all.

Second, I don't have a good answer for that.

Third: Whitetail hunting bag of tricks. Keep them all just get a bigger bag. We have a million hunters in our state on opening morning of rifle season. Hense if a hunter improvises and fills his or her tag, bring that knowledge elk hunting with you. Archery season overlaps with small game, turkey, muzzleloader just like some western states. Improvise. Elk eat, sleep, breed, and hide just like WT. Find that style that works with your personality.
And go Elk Hunting!!!
There is so much information out there like CNELK mentioned for us. Research can be tough but rewarding also.

Advise. Write down on paper The Elk Hunt You Always Dreamed Of and branch from that, if you change to many parts of that dream how is your success defined?

[navet]

This was how I tried to locate elk.
I elk hunted for the first time last year. I hunted OTC in CO. I made my decision on an area to hunt basically by the numbers. I pulled up the hunting success rates for the last 5 years for each unit in CO. I crossed out the non OTC, low success rate, and mostly private units. That left me with a list of about 10 units. From that list I picked the 2 with the highest success rate for my hunt(second rifle). Then is started google searching for info on those units Once I had my unit I started "google earthing" areas that had been mentioned in forums. The best info I received was from the ranger in that unit. In fact I hunted in the area he recommended and I saw elk.

My first take away was elk country is BIGGGGGGGG. I am used to WT hunting about 400 acres so this was a BIG change.
Google earth is the bomb. I felt somewhat familiar with the country because I studied google earth for several months.
It is hard for me to compare WT to elk hunting because of my lack of experience in elk hunting. So far the only similarity is that I hunt them both.
Elk country is so big it seems like it will take several years to become familiar with it and how the elk use it. On the other hand where I WT hunt I can KNOW the ranch and basically where the deer are in a day or 2....mostly because of the size(number of acres). Heck I cant get lost or eaten WT hunting.

[pegleg]

first time elk hunting i found a spot that looked good and sat on it waiting for elk to come to me. didn't happen. found out you hunt to locate elk and then go hunt them. have shot a couple bulls with gun on escape routes but need other hunters in area to move elk. find the elk then go try and get one.