New Elk Hunter Thread... One Question.. Rapid Fire

[WapitiTalk1]

A place for you new wapiti hunters to ask a question. Maybe something you're curious about and haven't seen it addressed before. Maybe a topic you'd like clarification on. Simple or complex, it doesn't matter. Ask away right here. The seasoned guys like to talk about elk hunting. It's a long off season and they need the stimulation . Let's hear them.

[Willie makit]

This might be covered in some of the " your move" threads, but I'm saving them for now.
It's early season OTC and I'm easing along in the timber, my thinking is to put out 3-4 cow calls every 30 min or so as you ease through the timber. My question: Do you call every hour, 30 min, 15 min? How much is too much? Do you stay put 30 min after making calls or just a few then keep easing along?

I get the feeling only a location bugle would be best this time of year especially in OTC done during the night prior, or early am or late evening, just to know there is a bull in the area, or am I bass-ackwards?

[Lark Bunting]

I put this in another thread in the DIY-Gear but will ask here as well.

If you have to choose between these two pieces of equipment, which would you say is more important for archery elk hunting; a GPS or a Range Finder?

[Swede]

Willie: I give out a short cow call about every minute when I am moving through the timber. I don't time it, but I am trying to tell every elk that can hear my movement "don't worry, I am another elk". I know we are not supposed to lie. Don't look at your watch, but give a little call every 50- 60 yards. Don't walk like you are going somewhere. Walk like you are feeding along. Stop frequently to carefully look and listen. Stay in the shadows and in cover.
Cold calling setup are good in the early season, but be more patient. Wait and repeat your calls from where you set up. A breeding sequence can be effective early. Elknut describes a whiney bull cold call set up, that I have used too. You have a lot of options.

[Swede]

Lark: For me it would be the range finder, but I am very familiar with the area I hunt. Remember a GPS is not only a tool to help you find your way back to camp etc. , but it stores places you may want to go back to even years later. This includes things like wallows or an elk freeway.

[cnelk]

Willie
When Im moving between cold calling spots, I dont call at all - I move real slow and quiet
I will stop and call for 15-20 min every 300yds or so - within earshot of nearby elk.
That way my calling will hopefully bring the elk to me - not bump them while moving

Lark
Good question.
Like Swede mentioned, it depends on your knowledge of the area.
I know I use my range finder more than my GPS during season.
But if Im preseason scouting, I dont even bring a range finder.
They both have their uses.

[Trophyhill]

I put this in another thread in the DIY-Gear but will ask here as well.

If you have to choose between these two pieces of equipment, which would you say is more important for archery elk hunting; a GPS or a Range Finder?

My opinion differs here for a couple reasons, for me it's GPS. Elk can take you to parts unknown and before you know it you're in unfamiliar territory. (Unless your hunting on familiar ground) Nothing worse than feeling lost and is an elk really worth your life? Secondly judging distance is something most should be able to control fairly accurately 40 yards and under through off season practice. There are a few things you can do to get better at judging distance but that's another thread. In a lot of instances things happen so fast that you simply won't have time to use your range finder and you had better be able to either judge distance fairly accurately or be prepared to pass the shot or be a good tracker.

[Indian Summer]

I'd say where you call from is more important than how often. If you top out over a ridge you're looking at a whole other world and so it may be a good time/place to try another call.

Gear: I'll take the GPS. Trophyhill is on the money: Who the heck knows where you'll send up! And since it sounds like you're a new hunter it will be a priceless tool to learn new country fast, hunt it long and hard, and get back to camp when you're not backtracking the way you came. If you're talking about a rangefinder for archery you can find a cheap one new or used that will do the job. A GPS is a more substantial investment that I think every elk hunter should have. I know my areas good. But I'm always expanding on that knowledge. Plus I'm always considering new areas too. GPS all the way! You can estimate range with practice... you can't guess your way 8 miles back to the tent in the dark after tracking an elk to wherever he decides to take you.

[Swede]

I just want to point out that the cow "calls" I wrote about above are not intended to bring in elk, though it can do that, and you need to be always prepared. I use the mews to fool other elk so they won't run off. They are supposed to believe I am another elk in the area.
Another good reason to have a GPS is to set coordinates in it that you found on Google Earth or somewhere like that, and you want to explore that place on the ground.

[Indian Summer]

Another good reason to have a GPS is to set coordinates in it that you found on Google Earth or somewhere like that, and you want to explore that place on the ground.

Absolutely Swede. Nothing is better than going somewhere you've never been.... when it sorta like you've actually been there before. Those things sure save a lot of unnecessary footsteps along the way too! Nothing like nailing a high mountain saddle dead on.

I agree on the cow calls too.

[Willie makit]

Sounds like my stilk hunting is perfect for the elk woods, I'll just have to learn the smells and sounds via boot leather and time.

Early season, Are the elk (cows mainly) always vocal with the social mews if us disturbed? Or are there times you find yourself smack in the middle of a silent herd? Most videos I've watched you can hear them but most of these videos have a bull around stirring up the pot so to speak.

In early season what is usually the first giveaway to you as the hunter that elk are near? 1. You see one, 2. You hear one being vocal 3. You hear them making noise moving around 4. You smell them 5. Your sixth sense?
I hope I'm not scaring anyone off with #5, I've learned over the years to trust that while stilking, it's an awesome and sometimes erie feeling, I hope at least some on here knows what I'm talking about and not off my rocker.

[Indian Summer]

As most of you know... my hearing is terrible. I smell them. #2 would be getting a visual. of course sometimes that's the other way around. Obviously if it's a bull and he's bugling that's a different story.

[Swede]

Indian Summer: You can't hear well, but can smell. I don't see well, but can still hear. What we need, is to team up with a young enthusiast with good eyesight. We would have it all together in one package.

[Lark Bunting]

Indian Summer: You can't hear well, but can smell. I don't see well, but can still hear. What we need, is to team up with a young enthusiast with good eyesight. We would have it all together in one package.

I have 20/10 vision... Where should I meet you?

[Jaquomo]

My vision is corrected to 20/15, and with my programmable hearing aids I can hear a shrew fart, but my smeller don't work so good anymore after a couple major sinus surgeries. Thinking me, Swede and Injun Summer would make a pretty killer trio.

GPS for me. You can learn to estimate range, and with a flat-shooting bow there's plenty of margin for error within reasonable ranges. But unless you know your hunting area like the back of you hand and don't plan to sally forth elsewhere, a GPS can be incredibly valuable.

As far as early season giveaway, any and all. Not one specific clue because sometimes they're seen, smelled, heard, felt.

[ishy]

My buddy and I hear different things better. He can hear bugles better, I always get the "you hear that?" Last year I heard a cow thundering towards us. I kept telling him to get down and get ready! He didn't believe me and was fumbling with his release caught on his pack while trying to get it off when she showed up. It was quite the cluster, but he almost got her was just starting to squeeze when she bolted.

[ishy]

now to answer the questions, I vary calls while moving but usually limit it to distance more than time. I'd geuss 500-1000 yrds between calls. Slower I'm moving the less I call. Have had good success just trolling, by moving slowly not trying to walk quiet and cow calling quietly in travel corridors. Ears have to be on high alert as most of the times this has paid off all the warning I got was a twig breaking.
GPS has to be the priority. I have a long sorted history of not having many limits when I hear a bugle and end up who knows where at the end of each day.

[Indian Summer]

Right on ishy... no limits. Especially if it's getting pretty late in the day. I've had my share of unguided clients come back to camp saying, "we had one going but just backed off because he was on the other side and it was getting late and we didn't know our way around over there"

Next question???

[NCelkhtr]

if you are going in to an area for the first time and going to set up a spike camp (backpacking in no horses or atvs). would you rather set your camp up on high ground to be above the elk in the mornings or on lower ground?

[otcWill]

NC, I never like to be below the elk myslef. The thermals will be going down during prime hunting hours and I always want the wind in my face for first/last light. Although there are probably situations where it is better to be above, I've never encountered one. Good luck!

[ishy]

Below, like otc said for prime time thermals will usually be heading down. Only exception might be for glassing or long distance locating as you should be able to hear longer distances from above.

[flystrait]

We like to camp up high on the ridge if possible. This gives us the advantage of covering more ground. Our style of hunting is the run and gun method, alot of bugling. By the time we locate one its usually pretty close to the thermal change in September if it was not changed yet we will sit and wait it out. We have much better success being on the same elevation and or slightly above them. It also helps with our energy consumption as we are not climing 2500-3000 every morning to get up to them. I believe the terrian would dictate where and how to spike out. Where we hunt is preety strait up and down and very dense with long ridges and no roads.

[Swede]

I do not like camping in the bottom of a drainage. It is cold there. It seems you are always down hill from somewhere and uphill from the rest. I pick places where I believe I will alert the fewest elk. If that means not going in all of the way, that is fine. Get off the road or train, and if possible find a suitable flat within a reasonable distance to a potable water source.

[cohunter14]

I put this in another thread in the DIY-Gear but will ask here as well.

If you have to choose between these two pieces of equipment, which would you say is more important for archery elk hunting; a GPS or a Range Finder?

I know this one has been discussed a bunch, but I did want to throw out the idea of getting a GPS ap for your phone. I personally don't have one but a couple of my camp members do (I can't get it on my phone), but they are outstanding. I think Cabelas has one and it's maybe $10. You get a full on GPS and can download a topo map to overlay the area as well. The best part is that you don't have to have cell service for it to work. You do have to remember to charge your phone each evening, which can be done in a vehicle. Anyway, with the ap only being $10 maybe you can have both a GPS and Range Finder!

[Willie makit]

Watching Cnelks video I hear what sounds similar to a squirrel barking, but could be a bird, hard to tell on my phone. Around here blue jays and squirrels are a good alarm to take note and look for deer, never a guarantee but just a woods wise thing to look/listen for. In elk country are there other critters like the two mentioned above to be looking/listening for?

[Still Hunter]

Here's a little tidbit about still hunting. If you're moving through the timber, and a squirrel starts barking. You're moving too fast, and making too much noise.

[WapitiTalk1]

Yes sir, pine squirrels are the ADT alarm system of the western elk woods. Once they lock in on your movement or location, they'll chirp at you until you're either well out of their area, you remain motionless for a long, long time, or peg them with a rock. N Idaho has a huge population of the pesky critters. And yes, they will also go into alarm mode with big game animal movement. I think they're more annoying than a deal breaker on any given hunt. We have the blue jays in WA, ID, and MT and they're not that big of a pest but, the grey jays or "camp robbers" as we call them, will literally swoop down and sit on your head looking for a snack handout. They're very bold, especially around campgrounds or well traveled trails. Two or three of those jumping from branch to branch around your position can certainly end an encounter by drawing attention to you.

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[Lark Bunting]

Given the opportunity to scout an area prior to hunting, how many days or weeks should you rest the area before opening day? If you arrived the day before opening season, would you do any scouting of your hunting area (locating bugles, cow calls) that evening? (Is it even legal to call when it's not officially hunting season?)

[Lark Bunting]

Yes sir, pine squirrels are the ADT alarm system of the western elk woods. Once they lock in on your movement or location, they'll chirp at you until you're either well out of their area, you remain motionless for a long, long time, or peg them with a rock. N Idaho has a huge population of the pesky critters. And yes, they will also go into alarm mode with big game animal movement. I think they're more annoying than a deal breaker on any given hunt. We have the blue jays in WA, ID, and MT and they're not that big of a pest but, the grey jays or "camp robbers" as we call them, will literally swoop down and sit on your head looking for a snack handout. They're very bold, especially around campgrounds or well traveled trails. Two or three of those jumping from branch to branch around your position can certainly end an encounter by drawing attention to you.

th.jpg

HA! My son is convinced Pine Squirrels need to be extinct. They drive him NUTS in the woods.

[WapitiTalk1]

Given the opportunity to scout an area prior to hunting, how many days or weeks should you rest the area before opening day? If you arrived the day before opening season, would you do any scouting of your hunting area (locating bugles, cow calls) that evening? (Is it even legal to call when it's not officially hunting season?)

If you're merely walking through an area and checking sign in the days/weeks prior to opening day, no reason to rest an area IMO. If you're in the area constructing ground blinds, clearing access trails, or prepping a tree for a stand, this is a different story as you're gonna root around the site, leave more human scent, and, disrupt natural vegetation. Probably a minimum of several weeks to a month for these endeavors if possible. I've observed that elk will stay with their routines/patterns, even with a degree of human presence, until sound and visual indicators (increase in road traffic onotherwise quiet 4WD roads, quad/bikes on trails, gunshots, loud camps, etc.) and hunters physically showing up in the elk's feeding, transition, bedding areas, mark the true beginning of hunting season. Even then, unless very pressured, many elk groups will continue to use the same areas but may shut down the breakfast bar earlier and go to dinner much later.

Yes sir, if I'm not locate bugling the night before my opening day, it's only because they are singing unsolicited. In the latter case, no need to make a peep. And no, it's not illegal to make elk sounds after dark to locate. Just don't carry on any lengthy conversations.. Walk in to a pre-designated bugle point, listen, cow call or locate bugle, get an answer and walk out quiety using as little light as possible to work back to the main trail.

Just my thoughts

[Still Hunter]

I'll add to try and keep your scent out of an area as much as possible. Spray your boots, don't pee, don't lean against anything etc.

[Lark Bunting]

What meds do you all bring on a pack in trip? I was sick as a dog in Mexico years ago and my doctor here in the states told me I should have come in prior to the trip to get antibiotics for the trip. Do you all do this when packed in? Last thing I need on my first backpack trip is Giardia or some other weird illness leading to massive dehydration.

[Still Hunter]

I do day hunts, so it's easy for me to bring all my water. If I was packing in i'd have a good way to filter the water, or I wouldn't drink it. Much easier than bringing meds for drinking bad water.

[Mikeha33]

When the mercury dips, will elk be just as likely to bed in the sun as they are to bed in the shade when it's warm? Seems like an obvious answer to me, that yes, they would, but I honestly don't know? If so, what is "cold" for an elk? At what temp would they start bedding in the sun on a South facing slope rather than the opposite side???

[rowdycwby1]

I take the meds I take daily and I always carry some kind of alive or something even benadryl or sinus meds. I take old medicine bottles to put them in and add cotton ball or tissue to keep them from rattling around making noise. If your worried about water you drink pick up sone purifying tablets or boil your water.

[Still Hunter]

When the mercury dips, will elk be just as likely to bed in the sun as they are to bed in the shade when it's warm? Seems like an obvious answer to me, that yes, they would, but I honestly don't know? If so, what is "cold" for an elk? At what temp would they start bedding in the sun on a South facing slope rather than the opposite side???

Not sure elk get cold. They're comfortable in weather that will give you frostbite.

[timberland]

Animal tolerances are much higher than our own. They are comfortable in a much wider range of temperatures whether hot or cold. Sometimes increases or decrease in movement is more related to weather patterns and fronts versus actual temperature.
Whats defines "too much hunting pressure" related to moving elk out of an area? (GPS , no need to range what you can'tfind)

[Willie makit]

Silent slippers, who uses these. At some point I either talked to some one or read to glue shag carpet to your boots for stealthyness.

[Trophyhill]

Yes sir, We have the blue jays in WA, ID, and MT and they're not that big of a pest but, the grey jays or "camp robbers" as we call them, will literally swoop down and sit on your head looking for a snack handout. They're very bold, especially around campgrounds or well traveled trails. Two or three of those jumping from branch to branch around your position can certainly end an encounter by drawing attention to you.

th.jpg

ha I've had some interesting interactions with those "camp robbers". I was feeding a curious chipmunk chunks of a nutty buddy at camp in CO one day when the camp jays swooped down and stole the chipmunks snacks. those things will eat anything lol. very brazen creatures

[Jaquomo]

Meds - I ALWAYS carry a series of Flagyl and antibiotics in case of giardiasis or cryptosporidium. Each (generic) is a $5 copay, and will keep for a couple years. Cheap insurance. Nothing will ruin a trip faster, and you never know when it can happen.

I once got very sick from a bacteria after gutting a bear right before dark when I needed to leave it overnight. Pretty sure it was from eating a Snickers with contaminated hands, or from putting in a dip. Totally took me out of the hunt for five days, sick from both ends.

[Swede]

When the mercury dips, will elk be just as likely to bed in the sun as they are to bed in the shade when it's warm? Seems like an obvious answer to me, that yes, they would, but I honestly don't know? If so, what is "cold" for an elk? At what temp would they start bedding in the sun on a South facing slope rather than the opposite side???

In the winter elk can often be seen of open south facing slopes. If you go into draws and cold bottom lands usually there are no elk there. There are several reasons for that. The open south facing slopes have little snow on them and feed is available. Predators can walk over crusted deep snow while the elk break through. They are easy prey in these situations. The grasses start to green up there earlier in open areas. The elk may go to a place where there is shelter from the wind, but they stay where the snow is not too deep. In the winter elk are in survival mode. It is my observation that when elk get weak and drop down into the bottoms with deep snow, they die.

[Swede]

Willie Makit: I have never hunted with special foot-ware to sneak up on elk. It might be a good idea in some spot and stalk situations. Normally I just give out a little cow call every few minutes to cause the real elk in the vicinity to believe I am another elk. Elk make noise when they travel. Sound like one, and not like a human on a mission, and you should be fine.

[Jaquomo]

+1 Swede. When I'm "sneaking up" on elk, I pop sticks, break branches, kick stumps, with occasional soft herd mews. I've walked right into herds doing this, once shot a herd bull at 8 yards that was standing there waiting for the last couple "cows" to catch up.

[mandrroofing]

Can elk be found low even if its hot,lets say 9500 when there is higher elavations of 1300 and these lower evaluations have less hinting pressure?

[cnelk]

Can elk be found low even if its hot,lets say 9500 when there is higher elavations of 1300 and these lower evaluations have less hinting pressure?

Yes. and even lower

[Jaquomo]

Elk used to be plains animals. That whole concept of hot weather = high elevation is a total myth, but wonderful for us guys who like to hunt much lower. There are elk out on the CO plains where I hunt muleys. Here in N. CO there are all sorts of elk at 5-6K feet in the foothills. Pretty much everywhere they have preferred food, water, cover and no human pressure, you may very well find elk.

[Still Hunter]

I know an area at 8000ft that have elk year around. It's a winter range for all of them, but some of them never leave. You can hear them bugling in July/August.

[Jaquomo]

In 40 years of hunting them in N. CO, the highest I've ever hunted is 9,300'. Lots and lots of people drive right on past that low country, thinking "early season - got to get up high", when many elk come down out of the timber and way out into the sagebrush at night to feed.

[Swede]

A few thoughts and observations come to mind as I look back at some posts here.
I have been a still hunter and even sat in my stand for hours when a squirrel recognized me and started barking. I can't say it impacted the hunt, but I remember setting ready to draw on a bull one day when a squirrel started barking at him. The bull had been very cautiously coming in to water. As soon as the squirrel started chattering, the bull bolted and left. I started feeling the same way Lark Bunting's son feels. The only good squirrel is a dead squirrel. My irritation has since subsided. I am still pondering whether the Lord expects me to include squirrels in my forgiveness.

To address Lark's question about how long to avoid and area after scouting, again I have a few experiences to share.
I have had elk, deer and bear come in very close while I was setting up a tree stand. I have killed elk from a stand I set up the day before. A friend set his stand down and climbed into one left over the winter and summer and climbed in it just in time to kill a good 6x6 bull. My son and I killed our bulls the afternoon after my son and his friend packed out the friend's bull. I have had bulls bugle around me while I was skinning and loading another. Elk move around a lot. They cover a large area. I don't like to bump elk away from my hunting area, but it only effects those that were enlightened to your presence. If they didn't get scent of you they may not even know it was a human. Don't disturb the elk any more than the minimum you must, but then just go hunting. It may be worth noting that when I bump elk as I go to my stand, it is unlikely they will come in to me later that day. That really hurts as I know they were very close when I messed up. I just did not see or hear them before it was too late.

[mandrroofing]

in Colorado when do elk start to herd up?Im trying to plan my hunt to be in the high county before that happens?i like the thought of elk more susceptible to coming into calling

[Jaquomo]

In many areas they are in huge summer herds of 200+ until late August, or beyond. It's not really a matter of herding up, but more about the big summer herds breaking up.

In N. CO., generally (but not always) the cow-calf herds still have smaller bulls with them until about midway through the first week of September. Often the bigger mature bulls are roaming silently, checking bedding and feeding areas, doing recon on cow herds until around Sept 6-7. Then they'll take over the herds from the younger bulls.

This is not a hard-fast rule. I've found big mature bulls with the cow-calf herds on Sept 1. But as a general guideline, that's how it works. Last year I shot a very big, seven year old mature bull on Sept 7, and he was wandering alone and silent, checking bedding ridges.

[Mofarmboy]

If you we're a rookie heading into colorado for your first DIY backpack in archery hunt. Which type of unit and terrain would you head for.
The easier accessible flattops were elk and success rates are high but are heavily hunted
The San Juan area around Durango. Where success rates are lower but hunter numbers are also.
Or another area I haven't listed
We're going as a group of 4 all interested in numbers of elk not trophys. We'll be going mid sept.

[Jaquomo]

mofarmboy, others may disagree but if I were a rookie coming to CO I wouldn't do a backpack DIY hunt. Way too much potential for frustration and failure unless you already know an area well that has a lot of elk and few hunters. There are ten thousands stories of guys just like you who headed up the trailhead into the wilderness with heavy packs and high hopes, saw more hunters than elk, and left wondering what they did wrong.

A much better bet for success would be a mobile base camp where you can hit a number of different drainages on long day hunts, then be prepared to spike camp if you find elk.

Now, if you're just looking for a backcountry backpacking experience in the wilderness and aren't too concerned about killing an elk, by all means sally forth, take your fishing rods and cameras, and have a fun adventure.

[Mofarmboy]

Our reasoning for packing in was to get away from all the hunters who hunt close to the road or trails. Our plan was to pack in about 2 miles that was we could hike back to the truck to check other areas
If we don't find elk or sign.
That's one reason we were looking into the flattops I figured we'd have a better chance of locating elk quickly.

[cnelk]

Mofarmboy
I have tree stands and places I hunt that I can hear vehicles throughout the day.
I would look into Jaquomo's advice and consider it of great value.

In fact I have a place that we have taken at least 8 elk in the past 5 years less than 3/4 mile from the truck

Including this bull ------------------------------------------------------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

With opportunities on a helluva lot more

I realize the 'backpack in 2+ miles' is the new rage [not the broadhead]
It sounds sexy, lightweight gear is nice to get, the views are beautiful, and everyone does it
But its really not necessary

Make the maiden voyage a fun one.
Make sure you want to come back and do it again
Then consider other options

Just sayin'

[Jaquomo]

That won't isolate you too much, so not a bad plan. But I guess I'd ask why go to all that trouble to backpack in only 2 miles, blind, when you can easily hunt that range from a base every day and spread out more until you find elk? If you want the backpack camp experience, go for it and have fun.

But in the era of Cam Hanes/extreme hunting/go gettum, you'll be blown away at how many people are hunting deep in the backcountry. Most serious base camp elk hunters hike at least two miles in the morning in the dark before they start hunting, unless they've found elk closer to the road. Which isn't unusual. So many guys are hunting way up high these days that the elk are forced low to escape the pressure. cnelk killed his nice 6x bull this year less than half a mile from his base camp. He heard them bugling while he was setting up his tent.

A couple buddies from Ohio decided to do a backpack hunt in a wilderness area I know well. They packed in 6 miles into beautiful elk country, set up camp, and during the week they only saw a small bull and a couple cows. There were several other camps of guys in the drainages on eitehr side, and a big outfitter camp a couple miles on up the trail. Then on their pack out they heard three different bulls bugling on either side of the trail less than a mile from the trailhead, which was packed with trucks and horse/llama trailers from all the other backcountry hunters.

I hate to pop your bubble. but you'll likely find significantly fewer hunters within a couple miles from the road than deep into the wilds, at least in CO OTC units.

[Jaquomo]

Oops, guess me and Brad posted the same thing at the same time! Weak minds think alike....

[Mofarmboy]

You guys make it sound so easy:) The areas you encounter elk in that close to the road are they areas where atv's aren't allowed such as wilderness areas? we're all relatively young guys so a couple mile hike each morning and evening won't be a problem.

[Indian Summer]

Our reasoning for packing in was to get away from all the hunters who hunt close to the road or trails. Our plan was to pack in about 2 miles that was we could hike back to the truck to check other areas
If we don't find elk or sign.
That's one reason we were looking into the flattops I figured we'd have a better chance of locating elk quickly.

Look up Winterhawk Outfitters. More camps in the Flattops than hairs on a dog. I know nothing about Colorado but that would not be a place I'd pick. I said I know nothing so I could be wrong but it's just because I've heard the word so many times over the years. It's like riding around in the east and seeing 50 bumper stickers a day that say OBX (Outer Banks) I always say there's sticker #999,999 I think I'll pass on vacationing there.

The average guy walks 3 miles an hour on an average grade. So you're looking at 40 minutes in for a guy who camped at his truck with all the comforts of home and woke up feeling like a million bucks.

Cameron Hanes is just doing what he does. He hunts like he lives. A marathon runner type. It has less to do with hunting than it does with his lifestyle. I was telling Jaquomo in a PM recently... I bet I could change a lot of newcomers if I wrote my own series of books called Elk Hunting For Short Fat Guys. lol I'm only 5 foot 6 and weigh 190. My first article would say.... Instead of living on Power Bars and granola and packing in to where Bigfoot lives... throw 3 Big Macs in ziplock (save ziplock for backstraps) drive up to a whopping 5900 feet, park and hunt. At the end I'll have a pic of me with a nice 6 point eating the last Big Mac and to drive the point home sign it with my parody alias name: Hameron Canes.

I've never killed an elk above 7500 feet. But to be fair... I know CO has a lot of high country & I've never spent time where there were higher hills than 9K and only a few of those around. In the Root we hear bugles from the road which is 4400 feet.

I hope you guys know that nobody is trying to be a smarta$$. Just throwing some fact from experience out there for your benefit. For those of you who don't know Lou... Jaquomo, he's is one of the most accomplished elk hunters you'll find.

[cnelk]

My areas arent wilderness areas.
Just National Forest - with drive-able forest roads, gated logging roads [foot/horseback only] to access the areas where the elk are at.

A 2 mile hike in the morning to elky areas generally equates to 8-10 miles by noon and back to the truck.

I hunt over 150 sq miles of country - very little of it over 10,000ft

[Mofarmboy]

I definitly value your alls opinions. Being brought up a farmboy I just figured the harder you worked for an elk the more success you'd have. So if the flattops are out what area would you guys reccomend for a couple rookies wanting to get their feet wet.
P.s- not expecting anyone to give out specific areas.

[WapitiTalk1]

You're getting pearls here Seth. The guys that are offering advice are on the elk's ten most wanted list from what I know

[ABQ_Chica]

I used to be skeptical of this advice, but I completely agree about hunting backcountry vs. roads. It may sometimes feel more rewarding to make it to the backcountry and in some areas, that what it takes. But it's true, that isn't necessarily where you'll find elk. Last year, I scouted and hunted elk entirely within a mile of Highway 285 in northern NM. I didn't get anywhere near a shot, but elk were right there, feeding, bedding, and hanging out in a little snippet of forest along a noisy, paved, 2-lane road. I camped 1/4 mile on the other side of the highway, and I could hear bulls chuckling and stomping right off the road at night. Go figure...

[Mofarmboy]

I get the vibe that there's quite a few guys on here that are good at killin elk. I'm soakin this stuff up like a sponge.

[cnelk]

Seth
You got a PM

[Jaquomo]

Flattops units are fine. Just hunt smarter rather than harder. Triangulate open roads and trailheads (find these on the CPW interactive CO Hunting Atlas) and figure out spots at least a mile+ away. Most guys who say they hunt a mile from a road are really walking a half mile, then a half mile over, then a half mile back to their truck. As Chica advises, look for starting points others drive by. These days, brute force elk hunting isn't necessarily the most productive.

[Jaquomo]

Forgot to mention - to your earlier question, there's a ton of roadless NF that isn't classified as 'wilderness". Designated "Wilderness" attracts people like cats to tuna: hunters, flower-sniffers, fishermen, summer backpackers.

[Mofarmboy]

Looks like its time to pour over some maps....I'll be back with more questions tonight!!

[Indian Summer]

I definitly value your alls opinions. Being brought up a farmboy I just figured the harder you worked for an elk the more success you'd have. So if the flattops are out what area would you guys reccomend for a couple rookies wanting to get their feet wet.
P.s- not expecting anyone to give out specific areas.

I said short and fat... not lazy. Don't worry you'll work hard... to hunt, not to camp.

Recommend: Wyoming, Montana

Remember when I said I see a million OBX stickers every day. Can anyone here tally up the number of posts that start out "We are planning our very first elk hunt to Colorado and plan to pack in" ??? On the flip side there are only a handful if that of new hunters, almost none, who have said "I'm about to do my first ever elk hunt and was thinking about Montana or Wyoming.... and camping at my truck"

The reasons for that are pretty simple. First, for easterners and mid-westerners it means the shortest drive. To that I say do you know what the longest drive is?: It's the one back home with no elk. FORGET about the drive! Everyone says they are willing to work hard to kill an elk... but not to drive to their spot. Would you buy a pizza from a place just because it was close to your house or would you drive another mile down the road to the place you knew had killer pizzas?

The other reason is those 3 letters OTC. It means a guaranteed license. Also it means simplicity in getting a license. I've talked to some guys, one last night on Bowsite, who say: "I looked at Wyoming Fish & Game's website but found it hard to understand so I gave up" Facts: You can get a guaranteed license in both Montana & Wyoming every year and there is TONS of good hunting on public land. TONS! Again, everyone says they are willing to work hard to kill their elk, but not to buy their license? PM me if you want the simple explanation.

Reason #3. "Colorado has the most elk" True. But: Colorado also has elk habitat from the north border to the south and east to west. States like Arizona, Utah, Montana, & Wyoming have a lot of elkless country. For example WY &MT have mountains on the west side mainly. Yeah there are a few smaller ranges in the east such as the Bighorns in WY and then there's the Breaks in MT... but the eastern portion of those states is predominantly flat private and antelope/mule deer country. Here's a little scenario: If you had an area the size of a football field and put 50 elk in it that's not bad. But what if you had an area the size of your living room and there were "only" 10 elk there? Where would be the easier place to kill your elk? The point simplified is that it's not about elk numbers.... it's about elk densities. The other thing is look at ratios such as elk:hunters. I have no idea what the real numbers are but I bet there's a hunter for every elk in Colorado and in Wyoming there are 10+ elk for every hunter.

Fact: I have talked to hundreds (real numbers) of hunters who said "We hunted Colorado for a couple years and we're thinking about trying Montana" Fact 2: I have never talked to a single hunter who said "We hunted Montana/Wyoming for a couple years and we're thinking about trying Colorado" Never, not 1!

I never hunted there but I always figured the elk in CO have played the game enough to get a bachelors degree in human behavior. Also... the idea of having muzzle loader hunters out there in the prime part of the rut is just depressing.... unless you have a muzzle loader tag. That right there is enough to steer me away.

Now I'll do a 180: No doubt Colorado has some great hunting. They have some big bulls too if you hunt the right place.... usually a limited hard to get draw tag for the biggest ones. But bar none there is not another state that requires more research to pick your spot. Hard work is not going to be the answer to find a honey hole either. The answer will be one of two things: Someone who knows for sure and tells you where to go. Or... a couple years of trial and error so you figure out what to do. The guys I mentioned above are ones who after 2 or 3 years of trial and error learned that a complete overhaul was on order... a relocation to a whole other state. There's one thing you cannot research on maps or even on X number of scouting missions, and that is what to expect in the way of other hunters come hunting season.

One last point I'll make to those who are just beginning to hunt elk. Elk hunting isn't for everyone. It's hard sweaty business no doubt. Very mentally demanding too. A fair amount of people try it and walk away. But the rest are hooked for life. It's all or nothing I think. So look at your elk hunting long term. So it's like you're beginning a new career. There is a learning curve. Time is extremely valuable. So is your other investment, money. Those guys who after 2 or 3 years of trial and error have invested a lot of time and money only to start over from square 1. That's a real bummer. Many of us, Elknut included, have said that even if you are in the right place at the right time it will take about 4 years of hunting to see enough pieces of the puzzle to learn an area and have a truly solid approach to hunting it. Time! So instead of gong to pre-school, or worse yet failing kindergarten, you should get right to first grade and start investing your time and money in a place that you know you will stay put. A place worth learning that you can expand on year after year. Think seriously about the factors or criteria you have when picking the place to start your elk hunting career. If cheap and easy are on that list I think you better take another look at your list and also your goals.

[cnelk]

Joe said it all!

NO matter where you hunt, Elk Hunting is by no means easy, even if you have a base camp or Bivy or horses.
I can count on losing about 10lbs in 2 weeks of elk hunting the way I hunt.

Do not look at a first elk hunt with rose colored glasses. Look at it long term.

Think of it like college.
You cant get a degree if you only go for a year or two can you?
You need to do you homework, you have a final exam each fall, and the mountains will grade you.

[ctdad]

I used a base camp at the truck with all the comforts to help me learn my area the first year. The second year I set up base camp but also spiked out about half the time to get closer to the areas I had found elk the first year. Less dead head walking in the dark each morning and evening was nice. The first year, I really wouldn't have known where to spike camp so I'm glad I did it that way. Maybe being prepared for both kinds of camp set ups would serve you well. Carrying a 50 lb spike camp 3 miles only to find no elk is a lot worse than just walking back there with water and weapon and finding no elk. But, once you find the elk, it may be worth your time to bring a spike camp closer to where the elk are at that time. As far as hunTing pressure goes, I don't worry about it. I've messed up a bunch of elk hunts that I'm certain who to blame but I've never had another Hunter ruin my hunt, that I'm aware of.

[cohunter14]

You are getting some great information here, but I just want to expand on one thing for all of the newbies who read this. Like Joe (IndianSummer) was saying, there are a number of people who come on here and say they are going on their first hunt in colorado and want to do a backpack wilderness hunt. Trailheads at wilderness areas are probably THE MOST crowded areas in the state come hunting season. Going in two miles on a trailhead will not do you a whole lot of good. Why? Because no matter how far you go in, there will always be someone else who goes another mile farther down the road. And that is before you add in the outfitters who go in on horseback. They will go in much farther than the guys on foot ever will. So what does it all add up to? A trail that might as well be a road, completely filled with people and horses packing in and packing out. Why not camp off a road that you can drive to then?

This has been mentioned as well and I am not an archery hunter, but if I were I would put myself in an area where I could cover as much ground as possible. When Brad (cnelk) says he hunts 150 square miles, he isn't joking. But does he cover all of that on foot? No. Hunting is about finding the elk and that is what Brad does, which is why he fills his tag every single year. You have an advantage during archery season in the fact that, if you time it right, the bulls are talkative. That makes finding the elk a lot easier. But if you are camped x miles from a trailhead, you are limited to how far you can walk each day. If you are camped at a road, you can travel miles a day by vehicle into new areas to find the elk. Hope that makes sense.

I am not saying that there aren't people who find success hunting wilderness areas, but typically they are outfitters or people who have their own horses to pack in and get WAY in there.

[cohunter14]

I used a base camp at the truck with all the comforts to help me learn my area the first year. The second year I set up base camp but also spiked out about half the time to get closer to the areas I had found elk the first year. Less dead head walking in the dark each morning and evening was nice. The first year, I really wouldn't have known where to spike camp so I'm glad I did it that way. Maybe being prepared for both kinds of camp set ups would serve you well. Carrying a 50 lb spike camp 3 miles only to find no elk is a lot worse than just walking back there with water and weapon and finding no elk. But, once you find the elk, it may be worth your time to bring a spike camp closer to where the elk are at that time. As far as hunTing pressure goes, I don't worry about it. I've messed up a bunch of elk hunts that I'm certain who to blame but I've never had another Hunter ruin my hunt, that I'm aware of.

This is another great suggestion (and was posted while I was typing up my last post). One other thing I forgot to mention, but this made me think of it, is you don't have to hunt a 'wilderness area' to backpack in and hunt. There are a ton of different places in Colorado where you can travel for miles and miles and get away from roads, and these are not just in wilderness areas

[Mofarmboy]

Indian summer- my group currently has 5 pref points for Wyoming with hopes of drawing a good unit in 2016. One o our main reasons for hunting colorado this year was to familiarize ourselves with our gear and elk hunting in general.our group discussed hunting in Wyoming this year in an easier to draw area without burning our points(if that's possible). But 1 guy in our group can only take off 1 week for work so we looked at co. as the drives shorter.

We'll definitly still take our pack in material even if we do truck camp so we can pack in and spike if needed.

We don't have anything set in stone yet.

[steviek]

If you have your heart set on the back pack wilderness trip by all means do it and don’t let me sway you. I did the same trip as you talk about last year. A lot of good advice above.

Just a little story about 2 guys I know.

Two guys left home with a truck loaded down with gear on the way to Colorado for a first elk hunt(sound familiar?). These two guys were so gun ho to do the DIY wilderness backpack trip it wasn’t funny. They were going to do it the hard way, the way you read about in magazines and the internet. Wilderness + Horse back and foot travel= little pressure(ya right) and be able get away from everyone(ya right). Thursday afternoon found our 2 heroes pulling into the trail head and they looked around and said WOW. No one was staying at the trailhead. They decided to not to pack in until the weekend, incase more hunters showed up. They decided to split up and see some of the country before decided on where to set up camp. Well they ended up hearing a bull Friday eve, and ended up hunting from the trail head the next 10 days. They heard elk pretty much every day and had some good encounters. Most of this was 1 to 1 ½ miles with hand held GPS from truck. We talked to multiple groups with horse and pack ins returning empty handed. We heard statements like they aren’t ready to bugle yet, couldn’t find them, it’s to early, next year we’re coming during the rut. Some hunters snickered when they found out we were first timers staying at the truck. One statement comes to mind “you gota get way back in to find them” at this time we were eating hot lunches knowing these guys just rode by the bull they were going after that night.

[Indian Summer]

That's a very good plan Seth. No doubt... do NOT burn 7 Wyoming points without a good plan which includes knowing what the heck you're doing!

Stevie... that just can't be! Maybe I read Cam Hanes articles wrong but I could swear he said 8 to 10 miles minimum.

[Mofarmboy]

Steviek- sounds a lot like my plans..... Up until I joined this forum:) at least you all were smart enough to realize the situation and not go ahead and pack in.

[Jaquomo]

Dang, you mean I don't have to run the Leadville Ultramarathon to kill an elk?

[Lark Bunting]

Archery hunters:

What is the longest you've had to hold at full draw for a shot opportunity?

What is the average time?

[Jaquomo]

Max for me about 6 seconds. Average probably 2.

[Willie makit]

2 hours, deer stopped perfectly behind tree and stood there, and stood there.

well at least if felt like 2 hours. It was so long I had to lean back into a tree to help. went past muscles burning to shaking, at that point had to letdown, fortunately had a few min to rest before drawing again. Though I was going to groan outloud when that second draw happened.

Practice holding 30 seconds then 45 and on, you never know.
Saw a utube video of a guy holding back a very long time with a bull basically sniffing of him, pretty impressive.

[Swede]

I would have to guess that the longest I have had to hold is 15 seconds. The shortest time I have held is probably more like 2 seconds.

[elkmtngear]

Last Season...seemed like an eternity, but it was at least 45 seconds (Oak limb was in my way and I didn't want to try to "thread the needle" through it to get into the buck's chest). I had drawn my bow when he was coming toward me...and he stopped perfectly broadside behind that limb

He finally moved and I smoked him.

[jswbga]

Last year, the spruce branch I killed (about 5' in front of the 4x4) was only ~200' below (vertically) a logging road. Maybe a quarter mile horizontal.

I called him out of his bed, which I'd located a couple days prior. it was a nearly perfectly executed plan, other than that tree-shooting issue.

spruce tree is more gamey than any elk I've sunk a tooth into, but you dont have to tag 'em...

the 4x4 had a pair of cows with him. (and so far as I know.... still does).

all that to say, it was close to the road, but the area was EXCELLENT. Very easy access to a large park for grazing, plenty of water, and solid spruce for shade. (and one angry putts cursing a previously unseen spruce branch).

shane

[wawhitey]

heres my one rapid fire question. why is it, that every year without fail, as soon as i locate elk, i get called in to work and not get back until end of season? WHY!?!

[Raven10]

How much variation is there in rut timing throughout the elk"s range?

[Swede]

Raven 10: I have not read much on that. Based on the little I have and a gut feeling, I would say there is a greater variation between individual cows and bulls, with consideration for their age, and including subsequent estrus periods when the cow did not conceive during the first and possibly second estrus period, than in the regions where elk live in North America. Breeding can also be delayed where immature bulls are a major contributor to the reproduction cycle. I know very little about Tule elk, but would say it applies to both Roosevelt and Rocky Mountain elk.

[Indian Summer]

Raven, That can vary not just by location but from year to year in the same area. I think the question "what 10 days would you pick" has been asked at least a thousand times. My answer and a lot of others is about the 15th to 25th. The 20th is usually a day I walk out of camp feeling pretty confident.

In Montana the season starts on the first Saturday in September. It's usually pretty warm. But it's a great time to kill elk. As with turkeys even though the ladies aren't quite ready the guys are growing impatient. Unlike the latter part of the season they have yet to wear themselves down to a nub. Toward the end of the month it's not uncommon for bulls to bugle from their beds but refuse to get up and investigate. Early in the month they are all over the place.

Where I hunt down in Wyoming the rut lasts long. Interestingly I know places where it gets pretty quiet by the 25th... and another not very far from that one where they just won't quit bugling until the end of October. Gotta love that!

I'll say this: For the last several years I've heard lots of people all around the elk world say "The rut went late this year"

Keep in mind that at the end of the month Mother Nature likes to play dirty tricks! Last year that meant torrential rain and in places 6 to 8 inches of wet sloppy snow depending on elevation.

[mrganser]

Can anyone shed light on Wyoming's preference point system for non-residents seeking OTC opportunities for elk?
Thank you!

[Triplebhunters]

Can anyone shed light on Wyoming's preference point system for non-residents seeking OTC opportunities for elk?
Thank you!

Just started messing with Wy, their web site isn't very user friendly. On top right corner of this site under Draw Odds hit that then follow through download PDF file. Still have not found page describing hunt Type descriptions, area descriptions, or animal quality descriptions. As I think of a question I have been taking notes to call Wyoming, or google to get some info.
This is going to be a fun one.

[Swede]

Raven, That can vary not just by location but from year to year in the same area.

Joe, with all due respect, where did you get that information? I have read nothing that scientifically supports that.
I have studied and found that the age and condition of the cow can effect when they come into estrus. They can come into estrus several times if they are not bred. I have read that bull cow ratios can affect breeding and the age of the bulls being relied on to do the breeding can impact reproduction.
I have heard hunters talk about late breeding this year, but most breeding is done at night and I see the vast majority of new calves from mid May mid June year after year. Please let me know if you are seeing a lot of new calves in April or July and August. If you are seeing a lot in July, what is the bull cow ratio and large bull survival rate? Thanks

[BuckyHunter13]

I use my iPad as a GPS. I use Backpacker Pro, an app that let's me download aerials/topos/hybrids/trail maps directly to my iPad for use when out of service. I bought a garmin GPS receiver ($80-$100) that syncs with iPad via Bluetooth. Works exactly like a traditional handheld except that I'm dropping pins on an aerial or topo and watching my little blue dot traverse the ridge on USGS maps. I started using this for whitetail scouting large tracts of public land, and look forward to seeing how it holds up in the mountains. I switched from an iPad 2 to an iPad air to save myself 1/2 lb in my pack. Not hunting bivvy so weight isn't critical, and an iPad battery lasts 10-12 hours of actual heavy use. My phone lasts about 30 minutes.

I'm not sure how many people do this so I thought I'd share.

[mandrroofing]

This coming fall i plan on hitting some wallows the early September that i had discovered on a bench.This bench runs pretty far and has a few meadows along the bench as well.If i discover that a wallow is active with poop tracks,rubs and mud on the vegetation,what should i do.should i set up and hang out all day?Should i just check back in at a specific time?should i just do a lil calling and splashing in the water?dont pay attraction to it at all?This bench is half to 2/3s of the way up the mountain were it runs into a sheer wall.Thanks guys.

[elkmtngear]

Matt, the location sounds like a great place for a bull to sneak in mid-morning to mid-afternoon from his bedroom.

If the wallow looks active enough, and you could get a tree stand over it, it would be something to consider.

My main concern would be the wind/ thermals at those times of day...they can get swirly! You would need to do some recon to figure out
the best place to put the stand in relation to the wind, and the heaviest used trails in and out.

If you could find a spot for a natural blind (or SLIP Blind) within range where your scent was somewhat contained, that would be another option.