High Country Wallows

[WapitiTalk1]

How does a hunter find wallows in the heads of draws What should you consider when you're doing your map research before you put boots on the ground for a scouting trip, or, actual hunt? They are not always (and many times not) on a large flat piece of ground. Upper draw wallows can be on a very small piece of property at the head end of draws... right after the water starts trickling out of the mountain and becomes any semblence of a stream. An example of this is the first pic.. there are two wallows marked, both around 10' X 15" in size (these have been well used, active wallows for the past 3 years in the Gem State). Another type of wallow I find in the upper portions of the elk mountains are actually not in the draw itself but on ridges or sidehills, where there are minimal seeps of water bulls have dug out. The wallow marked in the second pic is an example of one of these types of "seep" wallows. It's probably 10' X 10' and unless you tripped upon it, you'd never know it was there as it's bordered by 10' high alder. I stumbled upon this second one when a screamer pulled me in to him. He had been standing knee deep in his mud jacuzzi calling me in, thinking I was a purdy cow.

So, how do you think you locate these places via map work? Are there other elky type areas you look for on a map that by their very nature, warrant researching for a potential nearby wallow ,or, are wallows just a random phenomenom?

[cnelk]

RJ
I would definitely look at this small spot.
There is a curvature in the topo that moisture could be held for a wallow

[Mikeha33]

Guys, when looking at wallows, that you have actually found, are they most of the time actually in line with the seep/spring, right in the "flow" of the water, or are they off to the side? Or on a slope that doesn't even have a blue line seep/spring/stream on it? It seems to me that it would be very hard to find a wallow on a map, because there are so many variables. Last summer and fall there was a lot of rain (at least where I was in CO), so many areas looked like good wallow spots with standing water or very soft trampled mud. The only actual wallow I found, I think had to be from the previous fall, as it had very little fresh sign around it, and didn't look trampled at all. But that wallow was more than 300 yards from the nearest blue line, just on a random bench i happened to come across. Brad, I think i see what you're referring to, but what made yo pick that spot, rather than the low bench to the SW of RJ's other two already noted wallows???

[WapitiTalk1]

RJ
I would definitely look at this small spot.
There is a curvature in the topo that moisture could be held for a wallow

As usual, good eye Brad. I've been to that same spot a few times... no wallows there (I too had suspicions), but have had a bullwinkle or two talking from that very spot. It's a great gentle sloped benchy area that bulls seem to hang on and sing to the draw below, and, across to the big ridge on the other side. I've had no less than five bulls singing at the same time on several occasions in this general area.

[cnelk]

Brad, I think i see what you're referring to, but what made yo pick that spot, rather than the low bench to the SW of RJ's other two already noted wallows???

Mike,
Obviously water takes the path of least resistance.
But with that small curve in there, it could be just enough to slow a trickle or maybe there is a spring there.
A quick walk by would tell me what I need to know.

Even if there isnt a wallow there, a weird break in contour always peaks my attention.

[stringunner]

This is a great thread. I look forward to others chiming in as this is a question I have been trying to answer for several years, how to find these secluded wallows/water holes on a map. One thing that helped me (after reading a thread on bowsite several years back) was how to access the forest service or blm site's kmz files and uploading the data into google earth. By doing this I had access to water sheds and water ways that did not show on any maps. I have found many great spots as a result of learning how to do this.

An observation that I discovered this year that is somewhat intriguing as well is when looking at google earth and all the water holes and wallows I have marked, I noticed many of them appear at the same elevation on the ridge line, for instance there are two different ridges that I run frequently during the season, I have 3 water holes marked on one ridge and 4 marked on another. When I bring up google earth, I discovered that all of those water holes appear at the same elevation on the side of the ridge. Thus I tried this out on a third ridge this past year. Started from a known water source and just simply walked along the same elevation spot and found two more water holes. Some of these are as close as a couple of hundred yards and some up to a 1/2 mile, but an interesting observation regardless.

[Swede]

There are many ways to find wallows and water holes. Topo maps often show springs. I located some from the Forest Service wildlife resource inventory satellite photo overlay maps. Some can be found by looking out over the landscape and seeing wet areas and Aspen stands. These wet areas can also be seen on Google Earth. Like RJ, I found one when I heard a bull playing in it. Some I got a few word of mouth, and many I just went out looking to see if I could find one. I like to go along a bench below a long hill as I know water can pop out there. Stringunner that is how I located Shed, where your dad saw my broken ladder. Dumb luck and just scouting the area can also be productive.
I know of no sure way of always finding a wallow, except by using the F.S. resource inventory. The things I do increase my odds a lot.

[WapitiTalk1]

I'll add a bit more to the first picture. I've marked some elk trails/travel routes and a few bedding areas that I've identified over the past handful of years. In the northern ID and MT areas I frequent, a hunter "must" locate and utilize established game trails to move through hillsides of impenetrable alder and along steep hillsides or pay the price. Does anybody think that perhaps wallows may oftentimes be located close to bedding areas and along travel routes that elk frequent? Hmm, just saying Perhaps wallows are sometimes random but then again, not so random sometimes if you catch my drift.

[Swede]

As you point out wallows normally have near by game (elk) trails, but not every game trail leads to a wallow. Normally you have to get pretty close to see a game trail. Most are not seen on G.E. and none are mapped. If you are in the forest and interested in finding a wallow, then follow game trail as some will lead you to one. Sometimes the main trail passes by out of sight, but the side trails lead to the wallow.

[WapitiTalk1]

Agree Swede and solid point. Just mentioning that's it's pretty tough to look at a map and try to pinpoint potential wallow sites by only looking at 'certain' terrain features (head ends of draws, visible water points/streams, N or NE benches, etc.). A hunter must expand their thought process and not merely seek these potential wallow sites without targeting where the elk spend their time while doing their map work. The time of the year that promotes wallowing is hot and elk will rub in the mud 'where they are'. This includes more often than not, spots where they spend a sugnificant portion of their time.... close to bedding areas, certainly along travel routes/trails, and proximity to feeding zones. Just saying, to successfully locate and store away these potential elk wallow ambush areas, one must do so by researching more than a wet spot on the map.

[Swede]

If a person puts coordinates of wet spots in elk country on their GPS, and go visit them on the ground, they will discover some have wallows and some don't. Some are not even wet in August. It is also interesting that sometimes I have started with mapped coordinates and went there and found nothing, but while I was in the area I found a good wallow several hundred yards away. It is just a spring, near where Stringunner got his latest bull, but I found it when a friend said he heard elk in a certain area several times while waiting where Stringunner did.

[BrentLaBere]

I have to ask what people consider a high country wallow? Is it relative to the elevation of the high country versus the low? Or do you base it off of where you find them. Finding some at lower elevations like stringunner explain, there is a magic elevation some elk seemed to wallow at every spring in the area I hunted last year. But there was one that I found 1000' higher and the area was tore up and smelled the worst (best? ) out of anyone I had found.
Like other had pointed out about looking else where on a map besides the blue lines. This higher elevation wallow was no where near an indicated stream on a map. But it did have the "v" point up hill right to it which is why I checked it out. It seemed like it opened up a few more doors.....

[Jaquomo]

Probably 3/4 of the wallows I know are just random places where moisture comes up from the ground. It's wet in that spot only, usually, though sometimes damp for a few yards below. These can be on benches, hillsides, meadows, sometimes just right in the timber. Most aren't identifiable from any certain features on a map or GE.

Really the only way to find them is boots on the ground. Trails often lead to them from different directions. Some years they are used heavily, other years they aren't touched. The very best ones are those close to bedding areas and close to evening feeding areas. The ones in transition zones are used sporadically by bulls passing through. Bulls will often leave a bedding area and visit one in mid-afternoon, then go back. Or if the cows are parked and feeding and they're confident no other herd bulls are around, they'll leave the cows and go for a stinky roll.

In my area, almost every one is unhuntable, even from a treestand, because they're located in places where the afternoon wind swirls until sunset. The bullls almost always come in from above and catch our wind. We used to try to force the issue and hope a bull would somehow get in there without smelling us and present a shot. But after a few years of this we learned that we were wreckinng our opportunities and blowing bulls out of the country, often when we had no idea we were doing it. Now when we find a hot wallow, we try to figure out where they're bedding from the tracks on trails, and hunt the transition zones.

[TetonStorm]

Hi everyone, it's been a long while since I posted but wanted to get in on this topic because of the allure and difficulty of finding those wallows that are hidden in the deep, thick and steep. My hunt area has quite a bit of running water that runs all season. My elevation is 6500'-8750'. The drainage measures 10 miles by 3 miles from ridge to ridge. The terrain is a mix of aspen, timber and sage brush slopes. I've been hunting this drainage for 9 years. My brother and I comb this drainage every summer (it's right behind my house) and look for new wallows. What we've found here is that wallows can and do exist anywhere, but you are more likely to find the stinky ones near deep dark bedding areas. Most of them that we have found over the years aren't near flowing water or blue lines on a map but are ground seeps or springs hidden on the east/north aspect in dark timber. We will follow a game trail into these areas and start glassing in the timber for them. Then drop to the next trail 100' lower and do it again. This has been a good way for us to find them. It's also helped us realize that the elk have horizontal travel paths about every 100'-200' of elevation. It's really a fun way to get to know your zone and when you find the stinky puddle its bonus' for us. Do any of you guys find that some wallows are more of a drinking fountain than a bathtub. We've got two that are 200yds apart and they both look the same in the early summer but as time goes on only one of them gets used as a tub and the other as drinking water. It strikes me as odd because there is a ton of fresh water around. Maybe minerals?

[Swede]

Certainly some water holes are more of a place to drink than wallow. Another thing to consider is that not every wallow is used every year. I sat at one this past season that has generally been reliable, but it was not hit at all. Wallows are very unreliable as a place to wait unless they are along a well used trail and have drinking water available too.
I consider the country where Stringunner and I hunt to be fairly high at 5,000 feet to 6,000 feet. In Colorado or New Mexico this would be very low. Everything is relative.
Jacuomo's post is right on the money. If you are looking for wallows this is good information.
Jacuomo: Over the years you have posted about the problems of swirling wind where you hunt. Where I hunt there are morning and afternoon wind shifts and occasional swirling. rarely a down draft has ruined my day as far as killing a big bull is concerned, but I get away from some of the problem by going 25-30+ feet up some trees. I can get to my stand real early in the morning and in the afternoon before the wind starts shifting. Why would that not work for you?

[stringunner]

Echoing what Swede said about wallows vs. water holes. I haven't yet found sitting on wallows to be much worth my time. I prefer sitting on water holes. Thats not to say that they can't be one in the same but where my dad and I hang our stands, I consider these more to be water holes.

[Mikeha33]

How does a hunter find wallows in the heads of draws What should you consider when you're doing your map research before you put boots on the ground for a scouting trip, or, actual hunt? They are not always (and many times not) on a large flat piece of ground. Upper draw wallows can be on a very small piece of property at the head end of draws...

wlw1.png

wlw2.png

Here's my total rookie confession question of the day. Rory, when you say "heads of draws", or "head ends of draws", what exactly are you referring to, (timber draws, changes in elevation, water????) I know what I call a draw in Kansas, but I'd be willing to bet it means a little something different in this type of country.

[WapitiTalk1]

Mike, I was referring to a location/locations upstream, 2/3 the up a draw or more, not too far below the top of the ridge. The elevation varies from state to state but I imagine the philosophy is the same. I was trying to make a point that although there are wallows in other areas (lower elevation feeding areas), along travel routes to and from bedding areas (although these are opportunistic spots), many of the recurrently used allows I have found and marked are in close proximety to bedding areas 2/3 to 3/4 the way up the hillside or draw. Jaquomo mentioned this in his post also. Is is possible to locate a wallow on a map looking at benches on cool slopes, likely sites along streams, water holes, etc.? You bet but one enhances their chances if they consider where the elk may be bedding during their map work and snoop around there a bit. Chances are, there are nearby wallows at the head ends of these small streams, dug out of seeps, or on cool benches.... 2/3 to 3/4 of the way up the mountain.

[Jaquomo]

Swede, we've tried that and they still smell us because they're coming in from above, dropping down to the wallows. The scent cone hits the terrain at some point. Our wind starts shifting about 9:30 or so, and doesn't stop until the evening thermal starts dropping. By that time the bulls have already wallowed.

I've posted this before, but take a little 4th of July smoke bomb up in the tree stand and light it. That will show how far your scent cone travels and where it goes. Understanding that an elk can smell a "clean" human at 100 yards+ with shifting wind, 200 yards with steady wind, we've learned long ago about what being high up in a tree does to the elk where we are. What many people don't realize is that there can still be a slight descending thermal on steep north-facing slopes, while the air in a valley and on sunny hillsides is rising after being heated by the sun. At one great waterhole I know, the wind can be blowing steadily east, then makes an abrupt 90 about 100 yards out.

Once I was watching a steep hillside with aspen transition between bedding and feeding, with every trail leading to this one killer waterhole/wallow complex like wheel spokes. My hunting partner was about 25' up in a tree by the waterhole. The elk started down the trail above him, hit his scent cone at about 150 yards, and the whole herd turned around and took off over the Continental Divide into a different unit. He never had a clue this had happened. Whenever we tried this, every hot waterhole/wallow went cold immediately afte we started hunting it.

That said, I do know other spots further away from the Divide where the terrain is more consistent, not as broken up, and the wind blows steadily. So it all depends on where you are hunting. I try to explain to new elk hunters that just because someone can hunt all day in their spot, doesn't mean you can do it in yours. IMO, hunting in bad wind, or assuming the wind is steady when it's not, is the biggest mistake most elk hunters make.

[Jaquomo]

Adding to my prevoius WINDY post - last season I found a hot waterhole in a secluded little canyon. We knew good bulls were using it, but the wind was really "iffy" due to distant afternoon thunderstorms passing through. In the first week, only two afternoono-evenings had "huntable" wind. We resisted the temptation to push it and hope, and quickly bailed out the other days when the wind shifted. But on those two evenings we killed a 368 and a 355 bull.

[Swede]

That said, I do know other spots further away from the Divide where the terrain is more consistent, not as broken up, and the wind blows steadily. So it all depends on where you are hunting. I try to explain to new elk hunters that just because someone can hunt all day in their spot, doesn't mean you can do it in yours. IMO, hunting in bad wind, or assuming the wind is steady when it's not, is the biggest mistake most elk hunters make.

Jacuomo: Your thoughts relating to tree stand hunting are very interesting. Where I hunt the winds are not steady. We have prevailing and diurnal winds and they normally shift twice daily. I know I have been busted by down drafts, but have never had a concern about updrafts, or prevailing winds that are blowing uphill. It sounds like you have cool prevailing winds that are blowing in one direction (uphill) and bringing your scent to the ground, while the diurnal winds are shifting things around. Where I hunt, if the winds go up hill they don't come down anywhere nearby. I have checked that many times with powder. The powder just seems to rise and dissipate into the air. The only problem I have ever had from elk coming down from above is being seen. Jacuomo, you have me scratching my head on this dilemma. I am sure you know what you have seen and experienced. Do you have a theory on why we have such differences? Do you think a hunter with a good shower and a complete Scent-loc suit could avoid being busted?

[Jaquomo]

Swede, our winds don't shift, they blow every direction, continously. We sometimes put a wind indicator on a pole in our meadow camp, and it ties itself in knots around the pole. When it snows, unless there's a steady front, the snow is going different directions. It literally blows in circles, all day.

Powder really doesn't give a true indication, as it dissipates fairly quickly, as you noted. A continous 98 degree human scent cone doesn't dissipate, although it will become diluted. How quickly it dilutes before it spreads enough to hit the ground is the key. But colored smoke will really tell the story. Maybe a difference in humidity between where I hunt (very dry) and where you hunt? But going into a basin with the wind blowing toward the slope will take the smoke right to ground somewhere on that slope.

The other thing is the broken country where we are. It's a series of basins separated by long finger ridges coming down off the Continental Divide. Sometimes an elevation change of 50' or a move a couple hundred yards brings a 90 or 180 degree change in wind direction. On the very top of the ridge it can be rising, but dropping down 50' can be a hard dropping thermal. I've tried a scent lock suit after a shower with green soap, and still got busted (I don't believe in scent-lock suits, BTW, because the adsorption saturation of the charcoal is so quick and there's no way to heat it hot enough to reactivate the charcoal. That's partly why they lost the lawsuit).

Guys who hunt the other side of the big valley from my old spot, 3 miles away, hunt out of treestands. Every year one or two of them gets an elk of some kind from the tree, but they spook a lot too. I hunted over there the year before last, and the wind was fairly steady all day. But it's more of a big mountain there, not broken fingers everywhere. Go figure. The only time we have predictable wind on our side is in the morning until 8:30-9:00 or so, then again in the evening from just before sunset until dark.

I'm moving to a completely different area this season, a long way from the Continental Divide. I plan to try some treestand wallow sitting in afternoons, but will try the smoke bomb test this summer first. Nothing I hate worse than spooking elk out of an area by pushing it, when I could kill one on the ground by hunting carefully. I'll report back on how the wind/thermal patterns work over here.

[Swede]

Jacuomo: I never heard about the lawsuit, but I have little or no confidence in a Scent-loc suit either. I thought maybe it would help If there was a brief wind shift. You will just have to get creative and find a way to give the elk in your area the treatment they deserve. They have enjoyed the benefit of erratic winds way too long.

[Jaquomo]

The Scent Lok parent company was found guilty of false advertising in District Court a couple years ago.

Swede, the elk HAVE enjoyed the benefit of the constant swirling winds in our area. The upside is we get lots of time to stump shoot around camp, nap, make gourmet meals, and scout feeding meadows well away from the bedding areas.

And since Tom and I have killed a total of 75 or 76 elk in those basins, including a good number of big herd bulls - not counting ones our wives killed back when they hunted - I'd say "some" of the elk didn't enjoy it as much as others.