WWYH #1

[GetOutside]

Being new to elk hunting, I've been soaking up a lot of information here and on Rokslide. I really enjoy the WWYD topics. Its very interesting to see different point of views between both new and veteran elk hunters. The map topics have been especially helpful. Here in Illinois, topo maps aren't quite as revealing as those out West and I easily get lost in those postings, trying to pick a spot, then learn why it may or may not be a "first stop" location when the boots hit the ground. Since I get so much out of others topics, I figured I'd start tossing up my own maps and pictures to see how my suspicions compare with experienced hunters. I have my go-to spot and target elevation picked out. What do you think about this location?

Pete

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[Swede]

Pete: I like the west half of your area, but I don't hunt land or maps. I hunt elk. The people you want to ask about it are those who know the area. Those who have spent considerable time on the ground. When I go scout a new area, sometimes I come back with a big grin. Sometime all I get Is tired and sore. If I went into the west half and there was no fresh sign, then I might look over the east side. On the other hand, I might drag up my stuff and go somewhere all together. Your mapped area looks possible. Check with the local game commission and others who have knowledge of the area, then decide if you want to invest more time there.

[GetOutside]

What do you see in the maps that makes you say west? I am thinking the east half.

[WapitiTalk1]

Swede's right. You never know until you spend some time in the area. Seasonal hunting pressure for that area, elk population, water availability, private land bording, etc., etc., can all be determining factors. This said, I felt like scratching some letters on your map as to where I would consider looking if I were to scout that area. Personally, I like the N and E portion of this area. It's a bit more inaccessible from roads as it has some pretty steep barriers between the road system and the big rock in the middle, and, it's cooler there for elk. I placed a few possible feeding areas (F) on spots that appear to be meadows (elk like meadows), a few potential bedding areas (B) just because they seem to be safe snoozing locations where the elk have the rock at their back and can see/smell danger from below, and lastly, some poential water points (W). If those little lakes have water then cool, if not, the elk will be dipping down into the draws until there are places where the seeps/springs begin. Who knows, there may be a wallow or two to discover and hunt (time of the season dependent). There are a ton of other locations on your map/area that warrant consideration (including some of the ridges and associated N facing slopes on the W side) but these are a few that popped out to me. Good luck

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[Swede]

I was tempted to say it looks easier to hike for an older hunter, but I see benches, feed and some dark timber that I would check out for beds and rubs.

[cnelk]

Lets back up just a bit.
From which direction are you planning on entering this area?
Those roads on the bottom right?

[GetOutside]

Going off of Colorado hunting atlas, I believe the only access I have to the area is from the south roads. But the area I would like to get to is that NE slope. Its pretty landlocked which is why I chose it.

[Wyo67]

I'm with Phantom on the spots to check. As he said, the vertical changes above 10,000' can be a challenge if you're not used to the altitude. On those benches, be checking for beds, rubs, and game trails around the potential feeding areas and water sources. The saddle just south of the northern bedding area marked by Phantom could be a good spot for them to travel to and from each side of the mountain. As cnelk said also, you'll have to be aware of the thermals when entering the area. Good luck!!

Mike

[cnelk]

Pete
I think the whole area is good to check out.
You could slice and dice around that mountain in a day.
That will tell you a lot.

The key is to have about 3 areas just like this one - maybe more

[Indian Summer]

Pete
I think the whole area is good to check out.
You could slice and dice around that mountain in a day.
That will tell you a lot.

The key is to have about 3 areas just like this one - maybe more

Bingo! The area is relatively flat so no one spot stands out. Also it's not that big of an area on the map so it's not like we would be able to tell you to concentrate on a spot when you could run through the whole place in a fairly short amount of time. There's not even an outstanding feature like a REALLY steep spot where I could say they may be running above or below it. One thing I'll say is if is as landlocked as you say fine. But if it isn't the country is easy enough that it won't take very many people to work it over pretty good pretty fast.

[WapitiTalk1]

Pete
I think the whole area is good to check out.
You could slice and dice around that mountain in a day.
That will tell you a lot.

The key is to have about 3 areas just like this one - maybe more

Bingo! The area is relatively flat so no one spot stands out. Also it's not that big of an area on the map so it's not like we would be able to tell you to concentrate on a spot when you could run through the whole place in a fairly short amount of time. There's not even an outstanding feature like a REALLY steep spot where I could say they may be running above or below it. One thing I'll say is if is as landlocked as you say fine. But if it isn't the country is easy enough that it won't take very many people to work it over pretty good pretty fast.

Whatever! I made very nice marks and kept my coloring within the lines . Much better than I did in school with old lady Crabtree looking ove my shoulder . Did you guys see that borderline cliff in the NE corner of quad 4 (to the immediate E)? If there are wapiti in this area, they are either hanging in or moving through that area for sure. And, if the only parking/camping access is from the roads to the south, this may indeed be a nice spot, particularly if the gated roads to the E and W (perhaps even N) are closed to motorized traffic. I do agree with cnelk, if a hunter has no prior knowledge of a remote area except for internet mapping, you should have several areas to research or it could make for a disappointing season.

[GetOutside]

Did you guys see that borderline cliff in the NE corner of quad 4 (to the immediate E)? If there are wapiti in this area, they are either hanging in or moving through that area for sure.

Do elk typically like to sleep with their backs to a wall like that?

[WapitiTalk1]

Did you guys see that borderline cliff in the NE corner of quad 4 (to the immediate E)? If there are wapiti in this area, they are either hanging in or moving through that area for sure.

Do elk typically like to sleep with their backs to a wall like that?

I as referring to the area above the cliff to the W but yes, since you ask, elk do bed down up close to rock walls/very steep cliffs sometimes. They're always in "security" mode which is why they normally bed down 2/3 to 3/4 up a mountain side so they have the thermals during bedding hours, and, can see, hear, smell any possible danger from all potential approach routes.

[>>>---WW---->]

Indian Summer wrote, "Bingo! The area is relatively flat so no one spot stands out".

I hope you are just joking Joe. But just in case, I know a good eye Dr. and a boy scout troop that knows how to read maps.

Personally I'm looking at close to 2500 ft of steep vertical on one big mountain. If I didn't know better, it looks almost like Lone Cone down around Nucla, Co. It stands out by itself like that.

There are 3 nice looking little parks and benches just (above) section 4 at about 10,000 elevation that might be worth checking out.

And 3 or 4 water holes on the east and northeast side of the peak in section 4 that are within easy elk walking distance to those 3 parks.

Also a water hole on the west side in section 5 that Phantom didn't mark.

[Indian Summer]

Ok maybe I shouldn't have used the word flat!

But there are so many benches that it's not easy to pinpoint an X on that map. I like Phantom's plan. Section 4 stands out to me because there are some wider gaps there in an area of steeper country. Same goes for the section below that but it's getting closer to the road. If that road isn't an issue then I'd be looking there too.

The section north of 4 has a flat between two steeper spots too with some very good looking spots below the 10,400 mark. I guess it was late last night and things were blurry. The west side.... now that's flat! ha ha

[cohunter14]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that I would definitely want to check out that west side to make sure you cannot access that road. Although the topo doesn't show it, it is pretty evident that there is a road there in the aerial image. Based on the topo, that road gets up over 10,600ft. If it is there and not gated, you can bet that there will be atv's screaming through there at some point during your hunt. Just something to think about...

[Indian Summer]

you can bet that there will be atv's screaming through there at some point during your hunt.

Only in Colorado! Blows my mind when I hear the stories about ATVs and elk hunting. I never see one in Montana and I don't even think they own them in Wyoming. Not my cup of tea that's for sure. I've heard stories of guys camped above 10,000 feet after a ball busting pack in only to have ATVs come whizzing by at first light where they weren't even legal. Don't they have law enforcement down there? Sheesh!

There are some gated roads in MT where they are permitted until gun season but even there guys know better than to come roaring along and alerting the elk to human presence. Those people don't realize they aren't just making it tough for others but also on themselves. Talk about a ripple effect... that's like dropping a cement block off of a bridge into a flat water pond.

[cohunter14]

You don't have to worry about them in Wyoming or Montana? That is strange... Yes, here in Colorado if there is a road and it is open, there will be ATV's on it. If the road is marked that it is closed to motor vehicles but is not gated, there is still a chance you will hear an ATV on it. It is just part of the deal out here, but all the more reason to get away from the roads. Truthfully it makes finding that X you talk about a little easier

[Indian Summer]

On a main road with pickup trucks yes. But anywhere else in Wyoming would be purely suicidal. If you didn't die trying you'd be in jail before the sun went down.

In the entire Bitterroot there are only 2 designated 4 wheeler routes. They are mobbed with people all saying that hunting is slow. I know some great places up over the top and down the other side of major ridges from those guys so like you said yes... they can be something to help pick out a likely X spot. But to not be able to predict where they might show up would drive me nuts.

[GetOutside]

I've looked at quite a few aerials with roads or paths that weren't marked on the topos.

I've also seen what seems like hundreds of acres that have parallel lines running across them every 50-100 yards. Is that a result of logging activity?

[WapitiTalk1]

I've looked at quite a few aerials with roads or paths that weren't marked on the topos.

I've also seen what seems like hundreds of acres that have parallel lines running across them every 50-100 yards. Is that a result of logging activity?

The parallel lines (will always be vertical) you mentioned are possibly high line logging operations. They can give the appearance you mentioned on SAT maps. This type of logging is used on steep hillsides. If numerous "horizontal" lines, yes, logging skid roads. On your topo, the only roads that are shown are the ones in the SE corner. The various lines that appear road like on your SAT map may be old roads that are not on modern TOPOs. Yes, some may be age old trails also. A good tool to get to use in conjunction with your SAT and TOPO maps is a USFS District map, and, a road use map for the area. Both can really help you with showing which roads are open seasonal, or, just during a specific period. The road use maps also tell you which of the shown roads are motorless, allow quads/bikes, etc.

[Swede]

In the aerial photo you gave there are quite a few roads on the west side. They switch back and forth going up the mountain. I can't see enough detail, but I wonder if it is both mining and logging activity the roads were used for. Are the roads open, or have they been closed or abandoned? Some openings in the photo appear man made, but it would take a better photo to be sure on some.

[cohunter14]

On a main road with pickup trucks yes. But anywhere else in Wyoming would be purely suicidal. If you didn't die trying you'd be in jail before the sun went down.

In the entire Bitterroot there are only 2 designated 4 wheeler routes. They are mobbed with people all saying that hunting is slow. I know some great places up over the top and down the other side of major ridges from those guys so like you said yes... they can be something to help pick out a likely X spot. But to not be able to predict where they might show up would drive me nuts.

I see what you are saying. I think you misunderstood what I was saying on the ATV's. They don't just take them wherever they want to in Colorado, but if there is a road it will get used. Some roads in CO are difficult to drive a truck on, but ATV's can handle them no problem. There are very few times I have seen illegal use of the ATV's, and those have been in situations when there is a road, but it is clearly marked as closed to any motor traffic.

[Swede]

I think the difference between what Indian Summer is experiencing and what cohunter14 sees is due to Forest Service policy and administration. Some Forests and Regions allow off road vehicles anywhere except where they are not prohibited. Some allow motorized vehicles only in designated places. I think the day when ATVs can travel all over is going to change as soon as the Forest Service can make it happen. As with everything else, they have some stiff opposition.

[Indian Summer]

I hear you guys but I have heard many stories from hunters who said they were in areas where they were prohibited and nevertheless here they came. I'd be taking names & numbers!

[Swede]

Joe, I hear you on that. I have had people come driving their ATV up to my tree stand location when the forest was closed for fire danger to all off road motorized travel. The problem with calling the law in on them is that they know who you are, where you are, where your tree stand is, and they have no regard for the law. I have called the law in a couple of times over the years. They can't do much on the word of the public.

[cnelk]

If this spot is in Colorado,
Use the Colorado Hunting Atlas and the FS-MVUM feature
[Forest Service Motor Vehicle Use Map]
This will tell you what roads / trails are open and where they end.
A very handy tool for scouting new areas

[GetOutside]

I have looked into that feature cnelk. The only road it displays is one on the north end that is outside the NF boundary and the road on the south end of the map.

There are a few lanes that branch off the north road but I can't tell if they are driveways or private lanes for the few houses up that way.

[zpd307]

this is a great post on what to look for on maps when starting to plan for an elk trip. I was like wtf when I started looking at maps to figure where I was going to find the elk....

[Herb]

Are you hunting any of the private lands surrounding the area??? That is were they get pushed too. It's easy to make a couple laps around that area in a day, and there will be plenty doing just that. The first two weeks there will be a fella with his two mules up there, and two brothers with their Belgian pack horse. That horse has hooves the size of basketballs.

There's only five sections of public, and one section is all rock. The wind is horrible on that mountain. From any direction, the wind swirls around it something terrible. The three lakes on the NE side had ground blinds built on them. Smokepole season there will be a outfitter camp just west of the 10,000 ft knob in section 10.

But all is not lost, it is a very vocal herd early in the season, while they are there. There is awesome cell service everywhere on the mountain. Opening weekend is the time to be there. Lot's of good drinking water on the mountain. The large bench on the NE side we named the "bachelor pad," and the little bench on the N side about 11,000 ft we call the "Penthouse."





Opening Morning 2002, 100 yards from the Private fence on the North side.

I'd hunt it the opener. We would pack in the day before the season to be on them early the next morning.

I have not been back since 2002. We had stuff taken from our truck which really blows, but there is a lot of traffic on the roads there. Special place for me, cut a lot of my elk hunting teeth there. We leased the ranch on the N side in 1992 and 1993 for the entire archery season and had quite the time. The property changed hands, developed, lot's of new homes, such is the times. It's worth a weekend, but I'd have other options ready to go. We've been killing a lot more elk since moving on. Good Luck.

[Herb]

Your map is not showing all the private on the West side, that area gets little in a hurry. We always had hunters accessing through the private from all directions too. Don't expect to be alone. We called the ranch to see if they would let us access to retreive our elk, nope. So we packed them up and over and down to the truck, and there's really more steep than flat in the areas open to the public.

[Herb]

Sent you a pm with my phone number, will tell you everything about the place.