New Sponsor: What You Really Need, Honey Holes!

[Indian Summer]

Right?

I've mentioned before that I was working on a new business. My title here has always been Elk Hunting Logistics Consultant. Everyone knows we talk extensively about our specialized gear, calls and calling techniques, hunt strategies, and all of the other aspects of the actual hunt itself. But more than one time you've all heard a few of us say the number one factor in success is location. Not just location in a given area either. The big picture.

I read threads all the time about hunts that didn't turn out as planned for the same reasons. No elk/too many hunters. I get PMs from people asking where to begin on their first hunt. Some say it isn't their first hunt but the first one or two were pretty uneventful. How many posts start out with... "Hi my name is_____ . I'm not asking for your secret spots but I'd sure appreciate at least a point in the right direction"

My business will take you one step further. I'll give you a detailed plan with EVERYTHING you need to make sure all of your dreams don't come crashing down in a matter of 7 days. The plans vary greatly. Many of them will have an actual X on the map where I KNOW you will see elk, bulls included.

So if you are interested, click on my banner or link above and have a look at the website. If you don't know me feel free to ask anyone on here if I'm a credible source of information. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to find a reference or two here on Elknut Forums. Also, the outfit I formerly owned, Indian Summer Outfitters, has it's share of reviews over on Bowsite. I don't think you'll find an outfitter anywhere willing to do his best to support DIY hunters. I LOVE helping other elk hunters. It's what I do. For those who want to hunt with a quality outfitter in a great area, I can help you with that too.

Some of my plans are in Wyoming but keep in mind the deadline for hunting licenses there is January 31st. I'll help with licensing as well. I have more places in Montana than you can shake a stick at and the deadline there is March 15th. Now is the time to get your plans set in stone and then think about all the other things.

I look forward to doing what I can for you guys. Thanks for reading!

Joe Ferraro
Headin' West Hunt Consulting
http://www.headinwest.net

BitterroottBullEN.jpg (80.76 KiB) Viewed 22342 times

[Indian Summer]

Credit where credit is due: I can't thank our own John Fitzgerald enough for designing and creating my website. He did a great job and quick too. Most of all.... he was patient with my bazillion changes as we worked on it. Thanks John. You're the MAN! XOXO

[Still Hunter]

My worse nightmare. Now you can buy honey holes.

Elk hunting has become too easy for the lame.

[cnelk]

My worse nightmare. Now you can buy honey holes.

Isnt that what guiding is?

[Still Hunter]

I don't feel much different about that. At least that was only for the wealthy, and a lot of it was on private land.

[Indian Summer]

It's never easy Pete. You know that. You haven't been around here all that long but you'll find I love to help people. I'm addicted to it. I'm even trying to help you. I especially look out for the young people, the ladies, and the old timers who could maybe use a helping hand. Why let them roll the dice like we had to and maybe get frustrated. When we rolled the dice an elk license didn't cost a grand and gas was a buck a gallon.... ok 35 cents when you did! lol These folks have to invest a lot to give elk hunting a try. I get no pleasure from reading the stories about the agony of defeat.

There's no better paycheck than the self satisfaction of getting an email or phone call that says "I cannot thank you enough for what you've done for me" When it all finally comes together for those people and they kill their first elk, or maybe even just had their first close up insane encounter, I know they will never forget me. Man alive I LOVE that. It's like leaving behind a legacy. Even if you and I were to team up Pete we could never kill them all anyway right? And when we're gone who's going to pass all this crap on to someone else?

Listen old buddy... I've already watched you evolve. Elknut Forums has been great therapy for you. Two weeks ago you were making grunting sounds. Now you're laughing and you have me laughing too. I remember when we first started these forums. I made a post where I said there's one thing I aim to do here. Interestingly, it just happens to also be the slogan for the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation too: PASS IT ON!

So when you hit 90 years old and can't even remember where all your honey holes are, let me know and I'll be glad to hook you up my friend. I'll be sure to make it easy for you too!

[ctdad]

I think it serves a much needed niche. I live 15 hours from elk hunting. Scouting is a tall order. When someone is first starting out trying to elk hunt from a long distance away, it can be a very intimidating task trying to find a place to go. Which State, which unit, which drainage, etc. I remember how overwhelming that was the first time I did it on my own (3 years ago). I put a couple hundred hours of my free time researching and coming up with a plan and when we got there, we still didn't know a damn thing about the area that really mattered (that was partially due to my lack of experience).

Also, just b/c someone tells you where there might be an elk, doesn't mean you will get that elk killed. I've smelled, seen, and even drawn my bow on a quite a few elk who walked away unscathed.

Last year, a friend of a friend helped me out and pointed me toward a good spot to hunt. He didn't charge me for this info but if he would have asked for money, I'd have happily paid him.

When it is time for me to check out a new area or state, I'll be using Indian Summer's business. Until then, I wish you good luck.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Good luck Joe. I'm sure many guys out there can use your experience to their advantage.

[ElkNut1]

Joe, congrats on the new venture, it should do well not because of what you offer but because of your reputation of your genuine honest approach to help others & see them share the same successes you've enjoyed over the years! Good Luck with it bud! You got a great corner man there in John Fitzgerald, he's a true professional & gets things done & he takes his job seriously!

Still Hunter don't be a bah humbug you're showing your age! (big grin) But seriously though Pete it's not like you're thinking sir, times have changed & it's not like Joe is tying critters to a tree for the killing, hunters still have to do their part & work their buts off doing it! Just think if you were interested in hunting Montana but had never hunted that state & you had 6 days to hunt it. You contacted Joe & he pointed you to a spot he considered to be elky & this spot was 5-10 miles long & as wide. It would be nice to have such an area broken down that was known through research to hold elk & quite a few bedding areas like you enjoy hunting. Does it make your hunt easier? Absolutely not sir, you still have to do your part & find these elk & work your magic to get into their bedrooms & do it in a stealthy mannerr or you will not be successful & you only have 6 days in your new area! This helps put things in perspective that it's not easy whether you're hunting with a bow, rifle or muzzle loader! But it is nice to know that you are hunting an area that does hold elk! This is all that it amounts too, no more & no less!

ElkNut1

[Still Hunter]

Ok, I don't want to be a downer in this thread anymore than I have. We all have our opinion on hunting. Personally, finding the elk is a huge part of elk hunting. I couldn't appreciate the hunt unless I did it all myself. That's me though.

Someday, elk hunting will become too easy for everybody, and there won't be anybody asking anyone for a honey hole. It will be common knowledge.

Today's times are hard for guys like me. The old ways are disappearing, and being replaced by anything that will make it easier.

Sorry IS for crapping in your thread. Good luck with your new business.

I think i'm way too opinionated for forums. It might be best if I stay off hunting forums. I'll think about doing that.

[Swede]

Another important thing to remember is that you are not experiencing elk hunting until you are into elk. Showing you where to hunt will not make you an instant expert on anything, but puts you in a place where you can experience elk and learn the finer points on elk hunting. It will sure improve you opportunities at dropping an animal, and I assume that is why we all elk hunt, and are not shutterbugs.
I do not consider it cheating to get help in the form of advise. One of the reasons I enjoy this forum is because I get some good advise from some true experts. Joe is one of the most knowledgeable elk hunters on the internet, and I am more than pleased he hangs out on this site. I don't think he has any hobbles on the elk in the areas he will recommend.

[ElkNut1]

Still Hunter, one thing I know for a fact about you from a phone conversation is you're not a quitter, you're a fighter! Meaning if you've hunted elk for 4-5 days & came up dry you would be out there everyday after that giving it your all, it's in your blood! It's no different here, you have a lot to offer & many here including myself appreciate your comments & real life experiences, you're a true asset my friend & we're glad to have you & your insight!

As a sidenote, I look back over the last 25 years of elk hunting & I see elk hunting becoming tougher & tougher every year not easier by any standards. The elk are less & the hunters are more & the hunts get longer as do the pack outs every year. It takes a real study & determination on a hunters part to out smart one of the cleverest animals God has allowed us to hunt. Hang in there dude & keep us smiling! (grin)

ElkNut1

[Trophyhill]

How bout CO and NM?

[Still Hunter]

Still Hunter, one thing I know for a fact about you from a phone conversation is you're not a quitter, you're a fighter! Meaning if you've hunted elk for 4-5 days & came up dry you would be out there everyday after that giving it your all, it's in your blood! It's no different here, you have a lot to offer & many here including myself appreciate your comments & real life experiences, you're a true asset my friend & we're glad to have you & your insight!

As a sidenote, I look back over the last 25 years of elk hunting & I see elk hunting becoming tougher & tougher every year not easier by any standards. The elk are less & the hunters are more & the hunts get longer as do the pack outs every year. It takes a real study & determination on a hunters part to out smart one of the cleverest animals God has allowed us to hunt. Hang in there dude & keep us smiling! (grin)

ElkNut1

Paul, have you ever thought about why there's so many elk hunters now? The more information you give new hunters. The more hunters they'll be. Already it's getting very hard to get away from the hoards of hunters.

I've lost 4-5 honey holes in the past few years. I usually ask the hunters how they found those spots. 100% of the time they'll tell me the internet. I just scratch off the spots, and continue to look for new ones. Pretty hard to find new ones now.

I'm trying bear hunting this year along with deer and elk. When I can no longer find solitude for elk/deer hunting. I'll just be doing bear hunting. With no bait, dogs, or calling. I think bear hunting will be the challenge that elk hunting used to be.

[ctdad]

Still Hunter, do you participate on this forum in an attempt to discourage elk hunters? I see forums like this as a way for hunters to help each other and enjoy their hobby even when not in the woods. However, you must not want to help anyone else or they might become one of those people stealing your honey holes. So if giving out information leads to too many elk hunters, why do you participate on this forum?

[Swede]

Still Hunter, I really appreciate you being here and the points you make. I think you are in the majority in a lot of your opinions. I want you to hang in here and stay engaged. I think before too long we can change your opinion.
I feel absolutely no threat from well informed capable hunters. Most, if no all of the people on this site I would gladly hunt with if the opportunity ever came around. Where I hunt people bad mouth California hunters and sometimes those that come from Washington. Sorry Rj, wawhitey and others. Some of the best and most courteous hunters I have had the pleasure of meeting have come from those States. The bulk of the worst hunters were the locals, and they have a terrible attitude about the big game and feel it is theirs. They feel a sense of entitlement.
I feel very comfortable when I say that the good, capable hunter is not the one that is messing things up for others. It is the hunting slob that is the problem.

[Hard Knocks]

How bout CO and NM?

x2

[WapitiTalk1]

Credit where credit is due: I can't thank our own John Fitzgerald enough for designing and creating my website. He did a great job and quick too. Most of all.... he was patient with my bazillion changes as we worked on it. Thanks John. You're the MAN! XOXO

Boooo... Boooo... Hisssss... John is the man with that stuff for sure.

[Huntography]

Interesting. I'm a DIY guy myself but will check this out. I know some folks who could use help like this from around the country.

- Rudy

[JohnFitzgerald]

Credit where credit is due: I can't thank our own John Fitzgerald enough for designing and creating my website. He did a great job and quick too. Most of all.... he was patient with my bazillion changes as we worked on it. Thanks John. You're the MAN! XOXO

Boooo... Boooo... Hisssss... John is the man with that stuff for sure.

RJ, I Just noticed your profile picture. Did you get your head stuck in a tree............again?

[WapitiTalk1]

Oh, back on topic. In my meager experience of well, two, three, or thirty years doing this stuff we call elk hunting, I would willingly share anything I know with anybody willing to ask and be genuinely interested in becoming a successful elk hunter. A funny thing happened to me about two years ago. Slim9300 (Conlan) came out to my house and said "I'm gonna make you watch these, it'll change your perception of elk vocalization".. Yah, yah... whatever I said, let's just shoot our bows down below my house. I grew up in NW MT with my dad who guided in the BOB and my brothers and I know more than most about elk hunting, and, I can make elk noises with the best of them. Well, that evening at my house I learned that I do not know it all (big surprise) and that being a continuous student of this thing we call elk hunting is the real key. As you may have guessed, Conlan forced me (against my will...) to watch Elknut's DVDs.. Holy crap (sorry) it changed my perception of what them dang things were saying, and, what I was saying, and strategy to get em down. Ah, ha moment for sure. If I would have known what I know now, many, many more elk's noses would have been in the dirt over my few years of elk hunting. Time to get into the new era folks. Internet web pages, social media, etc., etc., may be the way to perpetuate and possibly save the sport we love so much! I guarantee Elknut, Swede, and the others who have taken the time to write books, produce DVDs, CDs, etc., on the subject and start forums are not doing it for the bucks.... Perhaps, just perhaps, this is the way we can perpetuate interest and knowledge in elk hunting. Hmmm... I applaud you Indian Summer for your new undertaking! I'm quite sure you won't be able to quit your day job but I triple dog guarantee you'll "hook" a bunch of new elk hunters by virtue of starting them off on the right direction. Nuff said..

Oh, GO HAWKS! Sorry Elknut, your Bay Boys are going down

[WapitiTalk1]

Credit where credit is due: I can't thank our own John Fitzgerald enough for designing and creating my website. He did a great job and quick too. Most of all.... he was patient with my bazillion changes as we worked on it. Thanks John. You're the MAN! XOXO

Boooo... Boooo... Hisssss... John is the man with that stuff for sure.

RJ, I Just noticed your profile picture. Did you get your head stuck in a tree............again?

Happens all the time.. Damn spikes just can't seem to wrap around the trees

[Elkduds]

I'm holding a book, Colorado Gamefinder's Big Game Scouting Report. Had it for @ least 20 years. It gives very specific directions and maps to "over 500 trophy hot spots on Colorado public lands." On the last pages of the book are ads by the authors for custom scouting service, and custom topographic mapping. This book has been around since about 1990. So the ideas of custom scouting and honey hole information for sale are not new ones.

Indian Summer answered the objection to selling honey hole information with this: "Isnt that what guiding is?" No, huge difference. Here's why. Outfitters supply a wide range of hospitality services, with information just one part of the package. And, outfitters operating on public lands are specifically licensed to operate in limited areas. That is very different than selling information on hunting public lands all over a state or region. The outfitter's limited areas are a way for gov't land managers to disperse hunting pressure. Unhindered sales of that information can circumvent that dispersement. The potential is for overloading some of the best hunting area, without the consultant having to comply with the fees and rules outfitters have to bear. If unchecked, this will be problematic for public land hunters who did not pay the consultant, outfitters and their hunters, those hunters using info they paid for, elk herds and habitat.

This accelerating trend toward further commercializing hunting on public lands has to be debated in public forums and addressed in legislatures. It has and will continue to have impacts on the land and game herds that belong to citizens of states (own the game) and the nation (owns the land)

Indian summer's business sounds like a good fit for his skills and knowledge, as he regularly contributes in these forums. If it will impact hunting on public lands, then we all need to give input on that part.

[Trophyhill]

I'm holding a book, Colorado Gamefinder's Big Game Scouting Report. Had it for @ least 20 years. It gives very specific directions and maps to "over 500 trophy hot spots on Colorado public lands." On the last pages of the book are ads by the authors for custom scouting service, and custom topographic mapping. This book has been around since about 1990. So the ideas of custom scouting and honey hole information for sale are not new ones.

Indian Summer answered the objection to selling honey hole information with this: "Isnt that what guiding is?" No, huge difference. Here's why. Outfitters supply a wide range of hospitality services, with information just one part of the package. And, outfitters operating on public lands are specifically licensed to operate in limited areas. That is very different than selling information on hunting public lands all over a state or region. The outfitter's limited areas are a way for gov't land managers to disperse hunting pressure. Unhindered sales of that information can circumvent that dispersement. The potential is for overloading some of the best hunting area, without the consultant having to comply with the fees and rules outfitters have to bear. If unchecked, this will be problematic for public land hunters who did not pay the consultant, outfitters and their hunters, those hunters using info they paid for, elk herds and habitat.

This accelerating trend toward further commercializing hunting on public lands has to be debated in public forums and addressed in legislatures. It has and will continue to have impacts on the land and game herds that belong to citizens of states (own the game) and the nation (owns the land)

Indian summer's business sounds like a good fit for his skills and knowledge, as he regularly contributes in these forums. If it will impact hunting on public lands, then we all need to give input on that part.

Although I agree on input on our part I highly disagree with legislative approval or actions. Government has proven incapable of dealing with such issues. I'm all for private entrepreneurs making a living doing what they love to do without help or hindrance from the government

[cnelk]

Indian Summer is right on track with this.

Here's why:
Overall hunter participation is struggling right now. States are in recruitment phase as the future of hunting wont be what is used to be.
His plan should fall right into place with the intentions of the recruitment phase. The need is definitely there

Also.
Hunters move around a lot.
Think about it. Even some of you on here have mentioned how you may be looking for another area or some new spots in the upcoming years.
Recently a friend of mine at work was talking to me about elk hunting. He and his buddy have moved to a different area. His last area is a good one, they shot elk every year, but just wanted a change.

[Even I dont hunt areas I used to. But there is a reason]

Its like a big shuffleboard in the elk woods each fall.

Joe contacted me about helping him with Colorado interest, at this time I dont have much info to pass along as I have been helping guys find elk in Colorado for many years too. Just like Joe mentioned, I like assisting someone that wants to chase elk for the first time.
I may help Joe with a client occasionally because like already mentioned, we cant hunt all the spots or shoot all the elk each year

The area I mentioned above that my friend vacated has already been taken.
A couple NonRes guys sent me a PM [on another site] inquiring about a rifle hunt.
So they now know where to camp, hike up the mountain, and small meadows to sit at.
Will they shoot elk? Who knows.
All I know is that I helped 2 guys get started elk hunting.
They asked 'How can we re-pay you?'

I said 'Send me a pic of you and the elk you shoot'

[Huntrgathr]

Posted moved to "The Good, The Bad and the ugly" thread...

[Still Hunter]

For the record. My specialty is still hunting. Friends, and even strangers have come to me, and ask me to teach them how to hunt with my methods. I've done it gladly. Just like Paul's passion is calling, and done the same thing. I'm even trying to write a book on still hunting. It's very difficult, because i'm not a writer. Just a dumb truck driver. I'm trying though, because it's my passion, and I want to share it. I'm doing it, because I love to hunt that way, and i'd like others to know about it. They might grow to love it to if they knew about it, and had a guide on how to do it. My plan is to contribute any and all profit to the RMEF.

I'll also help people with how to find elk, and getting to know them in general. I've also been fly fishing all my life. I give casting lessons for free. I've helped others in tying flies.

What I won't do is tell them where to fish, or tell hunters where to hunt. That is the part of hunting and fishing they need to do themselves. It's as much a part of the hunt as pulling the trigger. I have zero patience with the lazy.

I've had my say, and I always feel bad about not giving my opinion on a subject if I have strong feelings about it. Unfortunately, my opinions are not always popular, and this thread is a perfect example. I grow tired of the friction. The only way for me to get along completely on forums is to not be myself, and bite my lip. I've tried that, and I don't want to do it anymore.

Paul, you're a good guy, and I enjoyed out phone conversation. It was fun seeing your passion for calling. However, i'll continue to cause friction if I stay on your forum. I don't want to do that. You have a friendly informative forum, and I think i'll let it stay that way by leaving.

Thanks for everything.
Pete

[Freebird134]

I LOVE helping other elk hunters.

You won't find me using a service like this, and I might even argue people that do have their priorities a little out of whack. But, I like the last part of this statement. If a guy can find a way to make a living doing something he love to do, then you can't fault him. In that respect, I wish Joe the best of luck! I also thank him for supporting the forum. I hope sponsorship doesn't come with immunity like on Archery Talk where posts are removed if they offend a sponsor. That does nobody any good.

[itsnlkthing]

Stillhunter, I for one would hate to see that be your decision. I've been on plenty of sites where the exchanges are mean spirited and brutal. That isn't the case with this website or your input. If we all agree on everything, we never see another perspective and fail to grow. Who knows, your input may shape some of the approach these guys take with their business. Even if it doesn't, it gives them an idea of how things may impact other people.

[FemoralArchery]

Posted moved to "The Good, The Bad and the ugly" thread...

Wonder who did that? Gotta drum up some replies somewhere.

Good luck Joe. I hope you do well and help some otherwise unsuccessful or first time elk hunters reach their goal.

Stillhunter, there is nothing wrong with stating your opinion and you do it respectfully. I would rather be around a bunch of people that I disagree with who are respectful, than people I do agree with who aren't.

[Swede]

Still Hunter your opinions are welcome. A free exchange of ideas is wanted here. Just because we are not calling one another names, or questioning peoples heritage, does not mean we are a bunch of groupies. Yes, sometimes we bite our tongue so to speak so we don't leave the impression that we appose a individual. Usually that is not necessary. If I disagree with you publically I can do it in a respectful manner. I would like Still Hunter to rethink this decision. If you can't disagree or state your opinion without offending people, then by all means please leave. If you are reasonably articulate, and I believe you are, and have values and knowledge to share, hang in here. I actually think we share a lot of the same values. Maybe we don't completely agree on all of the details.

I have no idea how Huntrgathr's post ended up on the good, bad and ugly thread, but I can move it over here if that is your wish.

[Indian Summer]

For the record. The only way for me to get along completely on forums is to not be myself, and bite my lip. I've tried that, and I don't want to do it anymore. However, i'll continue to cause friction if I stay on your forum. I don't want to do that.

Pete it sounds like you may just be having a bad day. The internet, more specifically talk forums definitely are not for everyone. Using them has it's learning curve like anything else. After you use them for awhile there's no doubt you'll have a thicker skin. You have to develop cardinal rules such as just walking away from topics that get under your skin. But if it's true that being yourself doesn't work on the internet then so be it. There are forums that we all know where causing friction is the norm. This isn't one of them. Maybe the only one that isn't and we definitely aim to strive to keep it that way. I hope you have a better day tomorrow and find your way back.

To answer a few questions: No, nothing in Colorado or new Mexico. Montana & Wyoming only right now.

[Still Hunter]

Not really the case. I have over 25,000 posts on forums. You're just catching me at the end of my run.

I've grown tired of some forum personalities. I can spot them fast now. Spending time on the book will be more productive, and better for my blood pressure.

[ElkNut1]

Still Hunter, how much of the book is done & how much to go? How many pages do you think it will end up being?

ElkNut1

[Indian Summer]

I would like to think you can find personalities on these forums that you just can't find in other places. But you know yourself better than anyone so I respect your decision.

Sleep on it man... that's a cardinal rule I apply to lots of things in life. Good luck with the book.

[bowhunter04]

I think the reason people get a little more protective of their "honey holes" is everyone has seen what the mention of an area or mountain on a prominent website or magazine or show can do. It seems that every sort of hunting and fishing has seen an area or lake that gets mentioned turn into a zoo the following season or two. I think this leads to people being a little defensive.

I hope your new business does well. I think everyone can handle a group or two more in an area. I think the issue would pop up if one of your clients isn't as tight lipped as others. Suddenly an area that used to be lightly hunted can turn into a rat race.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Anyone can post any opinion they want on this forum as long as it's not offensive to other participants. Everyone has their own level of skin thickness so Administrators, Moderators, and Consultants determine if a post has crossed the line.

This forum has been live for a little over a year. In that time, the posts that got administratively deleted can be counted on one hand. Nobody gets shelter on this forum for any reason. People can disagree with anyone's opinion as long as it doesn't become a personal attack.

Good example, look how often Swede and I disagree. But we do it respectfully.

[Still Hunter]

Anyone can post any opinion they want on this forum as long as it's not offensive to other participants. Everyone has their own level of skin thickness so Administrators, Moderators, and Consultants determine if a post has crossed the line.

This forum has been live for a little over a year. In that time, the posts that got administratively deleted can be counted on one hand. Nobody gets shelter on this forum for any reason. People can disagree with anyone's opinion as long as it doesn't become a personal attack.

Good example, look how often Swede and I disagree. But we do it respectfully.

Do you want an example John? Look at post #15 in this thread. He doesn't see the posts I make helping others. He pinpoints the ones he doesn't agree with, and asks me why i'm even on this forum. On another thread I got called arrogant for giving my opinion. I'm very thick skinned, and you wouldn't believe some of the crap i've taken on forums. i've also handed it back out. I don't want it to come to that, and it will at some point. I've gotten to the point that i'm tired of it. I'll continue to post on a forum that i'm a mod on, because if things start to get out of hand I can just delete their posts.

Out of respect for Paul. I won't let that happen here like it has on other forums. I don't come to forums to ask questions. I come to answer them. You guys don't need me to do that. You're all doing fine.

[Still Hunter]

Still Hunter, how much of the book is done & how much to go? How many pages do you think it will end up being?

ElkNut1

I'd say i'm only about 25% into it. There's a lot more to still hunting than most hunters realize. I want to cover it all, and be up to date. My dad bought me a book called Still Hunter by Theodore Van Dyke in the early 50's. I wore that book out reading it over and over. It was written in the late 1800's, so even though a lot of it is still usable today. It's outdated for most of it. Plus, it's aimed more at deer. I want to cover elk too.

It's going to take a while to get it done. I have a ton of pictures I need to take yet. I want to cover all aspects of Still Hunting. Scouting, hunting, clothing, weapons, tracking etc etc. When someone reads the book. I don't want them to have any questions on how they should Still Hunt, and everything associated with it.

It will be my way to give back what i've been given, and enjoyed all my life.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Still Hunter - If you have a complaint, I'd strongly suggest you PM me with the thread name and post number. We take complaints very seriously and will look into the problem. But let's not do it publicly.

General - This thread was started by Indian Summer as a way to offer services to others because as sponsor he has that right. Lets say for example, sponsor A posts that he had a new line of large framed reeds. If you don't like large framed reeds, common courtesy is to say nothing. Voicing a dislike is something that should be reserved more for threads discussing reeds. Like I said, everyone has a right to voice their opinion as long as it doesn't cross the line. But, be aware of hijacking the thread direction or message. Joe's message here was to provide others with his information about his service.

Funny thing is I'm bad at hijacking and I need to heed my own words. But it's hard to resist the urge to pick on Swede, RJ, or CNELK.

[ElkNut1]

Pete, sent you a PM.

ElkNut1

[Mikeha33]

For me, someone who lives a good distance out of state, a service like this is great. I simply cannot afford the time or financial burden to put boots on the ground before season. I am also new to this. Our trip out fall last year served as basically a week long scouting trip for this years hunt. What I am utilizing already, is advice on already chosen areas. I chose an area that I will be hunting, and have sent out maps to people I think I can trust to not give up the location, and have asked advice on certain areas. Not choosing an overall area, because I have done that, but rather, what/where inside of my 30 sq. mile area, should I focus on? I am studying topo and aerial maps on my own, every day, of that area, looking for potential spots, and applying the "Elk Hunting basics... Your move" threads to my own maps, searching endlessly for that "X". But, I can look until my eyes bleed, but because I am still a rookie without an elk kill under my belt, I value the opinion and advice of veteran elk slayers, and any helpful tips to put me on the elusive X. It may not seem right or fair to some, but I just look at it as exhausting every effort in order to punch my tag. And if someone else recognizes a bench, waterhole, or anything else on my map that I may have overlooked, that looks great, it isn't necessarily my eyes not seeing it on the map, but someone much more familiar with elk helping another more inexperienced hunter recognize what he has there, and there isn't a thing in the world wrong with that.
I am not young by demographic standards, (31), but I grew up in a different age than many of you guys on here, where everything from about my sophomore year of HS forward, was to be found online, and no longer written, but typed. Do I agree with it? Not always. Do I think it's foolish to not accept change, and utilize any and all resources available to help one succeed? Absolutely. I wish I could scout for elk the way I do for deer here at home, but I simply cannot. So, by using the tools available to me, I do the best I possibly can to prepare, and remember the 6 P's. Piss poor planning, leads to piss poor performance.
Joe, I think you're onto something, and I hope you reap the benefits of hard work, and that you can continue to help others get on the "X".

[Still Hunter]

John............I've talked to Joe in PM's. We think a lot alike, and understand each other. I think he fully expected me to react as I did in this thread. The only one in this thread that doesn't seem to be bothered by anything i've said is Joe.

Anyway, after sleeping on it. This will be my last post. It's nothing personal to this forum. I've done it with all hunting forums, except the muzzleloader forums.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Sorry to hear that Pete. Everyone on this forum has a right to post their opinion without fear of ridicule or personal attack. I can't read every post on every thread so at times I don't see problems. Our administrators and moderators are here to help solves issues that arise . Maybe you felt misunderstood or misrepresented. But we need the chance to right things because we are here to help everyone, no matter what their opinion is.

My latest posts were not directed at just you. My apologies if you took it that way. That was not my intent. They were a friendly reminder to everyone about this forums etiquette.

-Everyone has the right to post their opinion as long as it doesn't cross the line.
-Thread direction need to stay on track. Anyone can start a new one if they want to go a different direction.

Good luck on your 2014 hunts.

[BrentLaBere]

Hey congrats on a new beginning IS. Pretty cool idea except I just dont get it! You help people for free on here already so how do you plan on making any money! Didn't directly put X's on my topo maps but following direction you provided sure helped my learning curve on finding elk. Currently building points (2) in WY and have a few general areas in mind I wouldn't mind discussing the future plans I may have for that state. Good luck with it all.

[Indian Summer]

ha ha... it's not easy. Truth is I feel a little guilty sometimes. But.... there have been times where I ended up feeling used which is really depressing. So now if I cash someone's check it eliminates the potential for that. The "used" part... not the "guilty" part. I'm just so used to handing it over.

As far as having a look at your Wyoming spots I'd love to. I'm always looking for new opportunities for my clients.

You know I'll do it no problem. But you'll have to get in line behind Mikeha33. I've had his maps on the back burner for awhile now. College exam this Thursday. I've looked at his quite a bit and am just about done. Other than that lay it on me man! But I've read your posts and I think you already know enough to accomplish most of what be accomplished without actually setting foot in an area.... grasshopper.

[Triplebhunters]

IS,it's great to see some one do something for a living that they enjoy. Congrats and good luck.
Cnelk, if you start one up call me. Just need a easy place for the old man to hunt once or twice.
Still Hunter, darn bud, I saw that coming but I really enjoyed reading your post. Let me know when that book is done.

[cnelk]

Tripleb

I wont be starting one.
I may give Indian Summer some CO info at some point if he gets in a bind

What I would recommend to anyone interested in hunting Colorado is to apply for a Pref Point.
It only cost $3
The CPW is going thru thei next 5 Year Season Structure and who knows what will happen.
They could go to all draw for elk...

[Trophyhill]

Tripleb


They could go to all draw for elk...

I suggested that on a well known "bowsite" CO forum several months ago and basically was told that will never happen. I still think it will happen at some point

[tdirks]

Hope it all goes great for you Joe! From my perspective you will be providing a wonderful service. You see when someone asks for location help and includes the statement "don't want your honey hole" the fact is he dearly would love to have your honey hole! Four years ago I decided that even with severely limited funds I was going to elk hunt if at all possible. Myself and two friends got together and planned for a year and did it! My two friends have quit after 3 years but I'm not going to! I spend many, many hours every year pursuing every avenue of information possible but at times the frustration level is tremendous. Garnering information from the best source, someone who has been there, is next to an impossibility! As an out of stater with limited resources it seems at times as an almost impossible task but fortunately my love for bowhunting will keep me going! I enjoy sharing my expertise with whitetails with someone that I know will take that information and use it for the rest of his life. I also some times end up with a good friend. Is there no place for something like that in the elk woods? I had a good friend shoot a 180 whitetail out of one of my stands this year and it was awesome! Mention "location" in the same conversation with "elk" and people run and hide in the closest swamp.

[Ghost]

I didnt read through all the posts, but I really dont see an issue with what Joe has in mind. Like many people, my only issue with the west is its to darn far west, an elk hunt for me is at a minimum a 26 hour drive if I dont want to do a drop camp or a guided hunt, and while Im sure those days will come, for right now, I still want to set up my own camp, hike my butt up the mountain and do my own hunting, but the last I want to do is hunt some place that is either over run with hunters or has 1 elk per 20 square miles. If I ever do decided on a guided hunt, its not the camp Im paying for, it would be the knowledge of the area.

I dont worry to much about it becoming too crowded, of all the hunters I know, only 3 of them have been out west, and only 1 has been back out west, most guys see a trip out west as a bucket list item, they go on 1 trip and thats it, especially once they experience what a physical hunt it really is, nothing separates the men from the boys quicker than a 5 mile pack out with a elk hind quarter on your back.

[Trumkin the Dwarf]

I'm torn on this issue. I live in the heart of elk country and still struggle mightily to find the beasts consistently, let alone in areas without other hunters. The last thing want to be hearing is someone saying they have a ton of spots to share in Montana. I can see both sides of the issue I guess, but it is frustrating to think I will need to work even harder to try and find a couple spots without any other hunters. I don't know if they even exist anymore...

That said, I can't fault ya for trying to make a living by doing what you love.

[Indian Summer]

They certainly do exist. Lots of them too. I can't remember the last time I saw a non-resident bow hunter where I hunt. Locals maybe on the weekend and that's if I'm camped at the truck. Not sure exactly where you live and hunt. Keep in mind I've been running those hills from Salmon Idaho to the Canadian border since you were born. Also... I think some people over estimate the number of people I actually send on hunts. Half go to Wyoming too. Also keep in mind as I mentioned in a post above... they are going to hunt somewhere! They might have been parked next to you if I didn't steer them somewhere else.

By the looks of that bull you killed this year Trumpkin... you aren't having much trouble find a good place to hunt brother.

[Trumkin the Dwarf]

By the looks of that bull you killed this year Trumpkin... you aren't having much trouble find a good place to hunt brother.

And a point for Indian Summer!
That bull was in a good spot, but we just happened to get there before the other guys in the area did that particular morning. It was in a spot I'd never hunted before, and the only bull I have ever killed. You make a good point though. I might just be a little sensitive to my personal lack of success.

[Madison COunty]

Mr Joe,

Why is there no phone number listed on your website? Instead of emailing you I was going to call but can't find a phone number. There is not one on your survey form either.


Pat

[Indian Summer]

Pat: All ya' gotta do is email or PM and ask. I use my cell phone 99.999% of the time and don't think it's a good idea to publish that number on the World Wide Web for every scammer and crook to see. I hope you agree.

PM sent.