New Sleeping Pad

[wapitibowman]

I have done a lot of research and finally bought a new sleeping pad. I had a winter campout this weekend with my son for scouts, so I wanted to test it in 20 degree weather. It is an REI (blow-up) pad, 17 ounces, 2.5" thick, R-value of 3.2. Sleeping bag Marmot Helium Membrain 15 degree.

I have always used the self-inflating pads in the past. Well, I must say it was an extremely comfortable night, way more than the self inflating pads. I never felt my hips on the ground when rolling over. There was one problem, not a huge problem, but present nonetheless. I wanted some feedback from others on this problem.

The pad was a little cold, not freezing, but I could feel a slight coldness in my bag. Is this normal for an air pad?? I have slept on an air mattress in the house and have had the same experience of slight "coldness". I am not sure if this is the norm for all air pads, or if it was too cold, or if I need to get one with more insulation. Any experience you might have had will be much appreciated. I am debating returning the pad for something with a little more insulation . . .

As far as comfort, it was night and day above the self-inflating pad!!

Wapitibowman

[Navesgane]

I have a big Agnes air pad for the summer and a thermarest for cooler nights. The thermarest is by far much warmer

[Indian Summer]

Sleep is an extremely important thing all year long and especially vital to a hunting trip. So I don't play games when it comes to my bag and pad. For me there is only one choice. Exped DownMat 9 which is inflatable via the built in pump. R-Value: 8, rated to -36F. There isn't a pad available with a higher R value. Since there is actually down inside you can't blow it up manually because you'll get water vapor inside which won't come out when deflated. Pump takes a little longer but makes up for it big time in the long run. Rolls up to about 6 inches in diameter and 9 inches or so long. Sleep: Priceless!

http://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-cat ... wnmat-9-lw

I sleep better in camp on the ground than I do at home and I'm serious.

[itsnlkthing]

That's an impressive rating IS. Do you need to store it uncompressed in the off season so the down doesn't lose its loft? I have the Big Agnes Q core SL, https://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail/Pad/qcoresl
It's 3.5" thick and R value of 4.5. It and my Golite bag kept me warm on 12" of snow and low temps in the teens. An R value of 8 would be awesome. When the Q core SL first came out, they didn't make the specified dimensions and ran narrow. BA corrected that and mine was right on spec. I also replaced my 0 degree synthetic North face bag with a 10 degree down bag from Golite. Smaller, lighter and waaayyy warmer.

[Indian Summer]

No need to store inflated. I have on occasion inflated it a week before my trip.. to make me feel better. lol. But it's not like a down pillow with so much content it needs to be left out or you'll lose loft. I think there's just enough down to make a layer along to bottom to achieve the R value they wanted. They also make a DownMat 7 with a 5.9 R value. Also a lightweight version with 5.9 R value.

They all comes in various sizes too, regular, medium, and long/wide which is what I have.... why not? I hate hanging out over the edge. As far as being cold: Nothing is worse than waking up with cramped achy muscles before a long day of elk hunting. Yuk!

Here's a link to all the different models. Click one and then click specs to see the size, weight, and R value. I've had mine two years and am more than happy with it. http://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-category/mats

[ctdad]

I store my big agnes uncompressed but not inflated. I read that they are better off stored that way somewhere. It just lives with my sleeping bags which are also uncompressed

[itsnlkthing]

My sleeping bag hangs when not in use, I don't even use the oversized bag they provide but this got me to thinking about my pad. Even though it's synthetic, keeping it rolled up probably isn't the best idea. I think I'll take that suggestion and get it out of the stuff sack until I need it.

[itsnlkthing]

One other option Wapiti, if you like the pad you have would be to cut a piece of the reflective insulation the size of your pad and put it on the ground first. Those primarily help with reflecting the radiating heat back. It means something else to carry but combined with the air in your pad it would be pretty effective. There are a number of people that make this "radiant barrier" insulation such as Reflectix or Low-e but it's normally sold by the role. For size and weight, I would return the REI pad and get one of the ones mentioned here.

[Indian Summer]

That's a good idea itsnlkthing as long as weight isn't an issue. But along those lines... nothing beats getting up off the ground either. If weight wasn't an issue though I'd suggest a lightweight cot. They also eliminate the lumps and bumps and can easily be leveled as well so you don't need the optimum level site to set camp on. That's a huge advantage of a cot... you can dig the legs in on the uphill side and be able to camp just about anywhere and be level.

[wapitibowman]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am a backpack bowhunter, so weight and size make a difference to me. Of course, I want the lightest, warmest, most comfortable pad out there, but . . . we don't always get our ice cream AND cake. I have also purchased a pad by Klymit (Stativ V insulated) - 22 oz, 4.4 R value. It is comfortable too, maybe not quite as much as the REI pad though. I need to test it out in the winter, so I can have a side by side comparison. Maybe this weekend . . .

I might be stuck with:

1) comfortable pad, but slightly cold in 20 degree weather, or

2) warmer pad with little less cushion - so maybe not as comfy

Wapitibowman

[Navesgane]

Found a list of some of the popular brand r values and weights comparisons doing a search

http://sectionhiker.com/sleeping-pad-r-values/

[Indian Summer]

Thanks Jeff that's a really good link for making comparisons. Looks like Exped's Downmat and Synmat still have the market cornered for R values. For those concerned about weight the DownmAt UL 7 might be the way to go at 20 ounces compared to the heavier Downmat9 at 30.

Thermarest NeoAir XTherm looks like a winner as well.

My #1 criteria was warm so it looks like I went the right route with my Exped Downmat9. I'll take 10 more ounces for a guaranteed good night of comfy sleep.

[itsnlkthing]

One thing to keep in mind is that R value can be very misleading, so don't select based on that alone. I'm not an engineer but I owned an insulation business a few years back. Heat moves to cold and transfers through convection, conduction and radiation. Trapped air is one of the best insulators out there and even the pads with additional insulation are primarily relying on that air. The bigger the air gap, the better it works. That's why the cold spots are generally at the pressure points and the pressure points compress the pad creating a smaller air gap. Blood flow is also reduced through those areas. I don't know the testing method for pads but I suspect it is not tested with someone laying on it. Even if it is, it's probably an average over the entire pad. The other major concern is durability. If that sucker leaks, bye bye insulation. Input from people that have one and like it is much more meaningful. There's a great testimonial from IS on the exped and my guess is he's had it in some cold situations. I'd put more stock in that than just values on a chart.

[wapitibowman]

Final answer for me anyways. Slept in the back yard last night with the kids. 20-25 degrees on the Klymit Static V insulated pad. It was much warmer than the REI Flash pad. Fully inflated it was too rigid, so I let a little air out of it and never touched the ground all night. A tiny bit less cushy, but warmer, so I am keeping it (plus it is $40 cheaper). Returned the REI Flash today. Thanks for all the input. Maybe eventually I may consider the Exped, but that thing is pricey/heavy . . .

Wapitibowman

[Lefty]

We had our Klondike three weeks ago. Another scout camp in 3 weeks
Next week Ill be tenting at Bear Lake Idaho; -3 this morning
I do this with scouts and cold weather tenting One or two layers of carpet on top of your ground cloth if you use one.

I also have 1/2 closed cell pad that is 6' x7 ' I like that as a good thermal break an to even out rocks, grass clumps and cactus

I roll around a lot at night and am a bigger guy. If I use an inflatable( Cabela Outfitter pad, Not sure if it is still made)
then place a 2" open cell foam on top in the cold, in temps above 20-25 the inflatable goes on top. but cold it goes underneath

I want to be warm all night. I wear those old wool hunting socks, the grey socks with red top, that is over sized on my feet, Below zero I will add an open face face mask( beanies come right off)
I have a cheapo couples bag and slide my Zero degree rated Grizzle $90 bag inside and cover my self with the better bag and a fleece blanket over my head and shoulder if it is colder than 10 degrees,.. Then Ill sleep in fleece wading pants and a fleece top

I really enjoy cold weather camping
Just like clothing layer-up