The Good, The Bad & The Ugly

[Swede]

I hope he doesn't mind my saying so, but reading Still Hunters posts has got me to thinking again. What has been the effects of the WWW on elk hunting? I want to share my perspective and to hear from you.

The good: There is much information available if you are willing to search it out. Equipment, how to, and even where to in a limited amount. You can find many more people to help you out very quickly. Maybe the best find on a site like this is the friends you can make.

The bad: I believe it is easy to get it all wrong. The impression is that elk hunting can be boiled down to knowing some things you can read or buy on the internet and be an instant success. No problem is too big. I can hunt five miles down in some hole and haul out a great bull. I will agree with Still Hunter some here, and admit that the enthusiasm, and the information gleaned from sites like this has increased the popularity of elk hunting. I have noticed that enthusiasm is often short lived, but it is at the same time broad based.

The ugly: I see people trashed terribly for having a different opinion. Fortunately that has never happened on this forum. I have seen legitimate businesses trashed. Fortunately not here. Different opinions are healthy.

[Huntrgathr]

IS - Congrats and good luck on your new business. All the best ! I don't want to take away from your thread but it seems the discussion is already under way.

There is no doubt that the Internet has changed hunting ( and things in general) profoundly and permanently. Before the Internet and the creation of all these forums a hunter had to put in his time ( in the woods). I know you all remember this. We "earned" knowledge. Now it's sold or given freely. Used to be, there were no shortcuts. Nowadays, a guy can spend 51 weeks of the year on the Internet and one week killing elk. People say hunter numbers are declining. Maybe per capita, but not overall. I can't think of one area that i hunt that there isn't 100-1000% more hunters than there was 10 years ago, or even the year before. This has led to not just overcrowding in the woods but there's also a lot more novice "Internet scouters" out there. So many guys that would not go out because they didn't put in enough time scouting, shooting, training, etc. are going out anyway because they found enough info on the web. Everyone's got a right to be in the woods, it's just annoying when most of them are bumbling around screwing it up for the guys who really paid their dues.

My business is foraging - mushrooms, etc. This is a business that is based on " informational advantage", meaning the guys who know make the money. Like hunting , it has seen the same transformation as the masses figured out him to mine the Internet for information. Even just 5 years ago, if I did enough scouting, map work , phone calls to the FS, etc. I could find a great spot and pick enough mushrooms to make a good living. Now, when an area starts producing, literally thousands of Pickers will descend upon it and no one is making better than minimum wage. Now I buy most of my mushrooms instead of picking. I kinda got chased outta the woods ( financially speaking ). The same thing happened with shed hunting. Before Tines Up, Monster Muleys, and a dozen other shed hunting websites popped up, I could enjoy spending weeks every year watching the wintering herds and biding my time to go pick up their antlers. Now, if one shed hits the ground it's a land race of ATV's, UTV's and SOB's to mob all over the country looking for a few sheds...

It's all inevitable. There's nothing we can do to stop it. Other than train harder, go deeper, and " want it" more than the other guys. The consolation is that a trophy earned is always better than a trophy given.

[Freebird134]

I don't know if it's just the WWW or maybe our society in general, but there's a huge shift in why people hunt. This is especially true for archery.

It wasn't that long ago that any buck or bull with a bow was to be cherished. What an accomplishment! Now, we are bombarded with hyped-up videos and pictures of monster bucks and bulls all the time. Most people are to wrapped up in inches of antler to be concerned with woodsmanship, communing with nature, friendship and memories. I hate it.

[ctdad]

Not everybody starts their elk hunting journey in the same place. However, I do believe that the real lessons learned in elk hunting occur in real world scenarios from trial and error. One hunter might get lucky on their first outing, but I don't think anybody gets "lucky" killing elk every year without gaining some in the field experience. I'm mostly referring to public land elk hunting with a bow (but the same is probably true for rifle too).

For me, the best part of forums like these are that I can enjoy my elk hunting hobby 12 months of the year. I have read a lot of information on internet forums about elk hunting. None of it has made killing elk on public land easy!

With regards to my whitetail hunting, I will admit that in the past I've felt like I'm "better" at hunting b/c I have experience or I use a bow (vs. a rifle) or b/c I've shot bigger animals than others. I have even felt some mild resentment towards others who did it a different way (archery vs. rifle hunters). What I've come to realize is that all of the hunters that I've come to know and visit with really enjoy the hobby of hunting as much as I do. Some haven't done it very long, some use a rifle or a crossbow, and some have family land with monster animals on them that I'll never have a chance to hunt. I don't begrudge these fellow "hunters" any longer. I realize we are all just hunters who enjoy the sport (for whatever reason which is not for me to judge). There are a few bad apples who cheat and break the law but I'm not referring to them here.

So I guess I feel the same way about the internet. If you can shorten your learning curve by reading online, then I think you'd be foolish not to. I think most will find there is a lot left to learn once the boots hit the ground though.

[Trophyhill]

I make no apologies for using the web for information. It's helped mold me into the elk killer I've become and hopefully continue to get better at. Paul's forum and willingness to share information and experiences with those that would otherwise be wandering the elkwoods aimlessly is invaluable and has drawn some of the best elk hunters in the world in to the mix to help others that share our passion. I don't care about antler size or whether I kill cows or bulls however I don't go into the elkwoods with Intensions of taking a nature hike either. I hunt in order to kill and put food on my table. Thanks to all of you willing to share your valuable knowledge and experiences! Technology is growing and evolving at a quick pace. So are hunters.

[SoCo Mark]

When I was a kid, cow tags were extremely hard to draw. It was a lucky guy who had one going into the season. And my dad never drew one in all the years of applying. Bull tags were over the counter..
Now, it is completely reversed with some putting in for 20 plus years for a coveted bull tag, while cow tags in some areas are additional tags. That said, I have 8 points, and playing the same game as others, so I'm the pot calling the kettle black..
Not sure if the www is completely responsible, but it sure brings out the competitive edge out of some, ie: some people won't shoot something small, or a cow in fear of being ridiculed. That is really sad, in my opinion.
Can the case be made that point creep is a result, in part, to the internet??
The good is plenty. There are many on this site that now an extreme amount about elk, and willingly and openly share with all. If I had to learn on my own each and every elk sound, its meaning, and tactics to handle each of those situations, well let's just say I would never figure it out. I simply don't spend the amount of time in the woods to figure it all out.
At the end of the day, I am looking to parlay the info from this site into 1 good bull with my bow. By good I want a 6 point. Not much on scores but something 270 or better and I would be absolutely tickled. After that, if I only fill the freezer 2 out of every 3-4 years minimum, well I'd more than happy!
Also, look at all the e-businesses where people are making money off of different things, like elk hunting. What I'm saying is, how many Playbooks would've been sold without the internet??? And how much effort would've it taken to sell them? So good for that. People making a living or even just an extra jingle in their pocket because of the internet. It still is a great country.

[Willie makit]

It wasn't that long ago that any buck or bull with a bow was to be cherished. What an accomplishment! Now, we are bombarded with hyped-up videos and pictures of monster bucks and bulls all the time. Most people are to wrapped up in inches of antler to be concerned with woodsmanship, communing with nature, friendship and memories. I hate it.

X2

[SoCo Mark]

Well said Trophyhill. You must've posted while I was typing mine. My opinions exactly.

[Indian Summer]

"Nowadays, a guy can spend 51 weeks of the year on the Internet and one week killing elk." Do you really believe that?

First of all let me make a statement that completely negates that one: I got skunked last year!

That alone should prove that no matter what you learn on the internet, or even on the mountain, the elk aren't going to commit suicide. I sense a little selfishness if you all want to know the truth.

Everyone seems to want people to struggle a little bit is what I'm hearing. They want them to pay their dues just like they did themselves. Isn't it the nature of a parent to want life to be better for their children? Or is that just your children and nobody else's? Makes me think of a scene where parents are watching a junior high football game and there ends up being an argument or even a physical confrontation in the stands.

Don't worry... I'm sure all of you will agree that no matter what information you find on the internet you are still going to have to earn them the old fashioned way. Do you suggest we let people try, fail, try again, until they maybe, finally, get lucky and stumble on a half decent place to hunt? If so shame on you.

I've been reading the posts since yesterday. One thing that comes to mind is this: You've all been hunting in places where there seems to be more hunters than where I hunt. Where I hunt I rarely run into a soul. These places can handle the one party of hunters that I might send there.

This is the first time I have heard talks on Elknut Forums where people suggest that we withhold information. I'm extremely disappointed in that. Extremely! Should I change my ways and do more reading and less typing? Maybe make it more of a one way street?

So with respect to Swede's original theme of this thread: The bad that I see on the internet is that no matter what you say, there will always be someone out there who disagrees. I'll go one step further and say that quite often the reason for this, which many here are perfect examples of.... is because you have applied the subject to the specific area where you hunt. Everyone sees things from their perspective. I guess it's not easy to imagine a place so unlike yours that isn't a rat race where it's important to be secretive in the best interest of others or the elk. I know elk that will never see a hunter this season or next but it seems that is hard for many to fathom.

I always hate to hear that saying "Nice guys finish last" But it's even more disappointing to hear people say that being a nice guy is just wrong. Some of the comments lately sure do have me rethinking my fellow man.

Maybe we should shut this place down before anyone knows too much?

[Indian Summer]

Quick question since it might be easy for a lot of hunters to apply to their home turf: If you told me where a great place to hunt whitetail buck was, would I be able to stroll in there and kill one? Probably not right. But one thing would be a given: It would be easier to go up a tree or sit in a blind and wait for lady luck to come my way than it is for a new elk hunter to look at an area 4 miles by 6 miles and go find lady luck with all their gear on their backs & make it happen. If the point is that it's unfair for someone else to be affected by them being there then I might be wrong doing what I do on here every day. I'd sure like to not have to think so.

Also... they are going to hunt somewhere right? What's the difference if happens to be somewhere I suggested?

[Trophyhill]

Indian Summer, what I've found is this. Although I've learned a lot from others I've still had to struggle through my own mistakes and learn from them 1 mistake and encounter at a time. I sense a little jealousy from some. Don't pay any attention to those negative comments. Do what you do and be the best you can be at it and you will thrive and rise above the negative jealousy.

[Swede]

AMEN! Indian Summer. That is the second great sermon I received today.
When people like Elknut or Indian Summer and others share "how to" information, we all learn and try to use it to be better hunters. Why is sharing a hunting location with someone that lives hundreds or even thousands of miles away from a hunting area any different? I know there are many hunters who were not raised in a forest environment and did not make a career of working in the woods. Maybe that is why I am very willing to share what I have learned. I was blessed and learned a lot on my own. I have been blessed and I know it. I recognize I owe a great debt of thanks to God, good instructors and people who have written some great information. That applies to public school teachers, college instructors, and on and on.
I guess it is ok in some people's mind to hire a guide, but it is wrong to share information on where to go? I don't understand. This I do understand: It gives me great pleasure to hear someone say, or to get a note of thanks from some successful hunter, expressing appreciation for something I shared with them that made a difference.

[Swede]

Thanks Trophyhill for your excellent observation. I was writing while you were posting.

[Huntrgathr]

Wow, talk about missing the point ! I never suggested withholding information or any such BS. I simply made an observation about the state of affairs in the hunting world. It's easier to find the knowledge that you need to be a successful hunter thanks to the Internet. Period. Do I use the Internet and all the info available ? You bet I do ! Do I appreciate it ? You bet ! Do I think it's a god thing for hunting in general ? That remains to be seen..

Jealous ? You gotta be kidding me...

[cnelk]

The Good:
The WWW has been a real asset for me.
With aerial photos, Google Earth and all that other data it is a ot fun to look around from above.
I have met some really great people on hunting forums. And I am looking forward to meeting a few select more.

The bad:
The Internet can be addicting. It can take precious time away from other more more important things.

The Ugly:
Typing something online can be easily be taken the wrong way.
We all know there are sites that you better have Big Boy Boots on to participate.
But being different is what makes the world go 'round - as ugly as it may be.

[easeup]

I see it as nothing but a good thing. So many young men and women these days are not raised in a traditional family where dad is home every night. For many dad is never around at all. On top of that, they are living away from the outdoors in a concrete jungle.
just by chance they catch a gleam in their eye to be part of this grand thing of hunting out west. so where could they even have a chance to learn these things they need to know.?

C'mon guys ....it is this place and others like it. and it me and you sharing with a smile.

[Kevrod3]

I know that the WWW has been good for me! I live in Ohio, so heading west for scouting trips isn't a reality. Being on this website gets me pumped for September way more than anything else! I'm not here to steal spots, but what I want is to become a better hunter. Not only that, but I want to be a better "prepared" hunter! ie. survival tips, equipment, elk knowledge, and overall being apart of a community of like minded hunters. I haven't been on here long, but I've heard nothing but positive things on this site. I've even found a few guys willing to help get me on elk! So ya it has probably brought more guys to the elk woods and I'm one of them!

[>>>---WW---->]

JMHO: But I think cabin fever is setting in real heavy. Sure hope this doesn't turn into another AT or Bowsite. I'd sure hate to see that happen to such a nice forum like we have here.

[Lefty]

Mostly good

Ive met some of my best friends on one forum,..
I was always a big map reader I us to need to go to the Army Corps Of Engineering Depository to get what I wanted then copied pages and pages, a few minutes on a computer and hit print

Bad and Ugly sometimes Ive written a post poorly and it came across way different than my intentions

[JohnFitzgerald]

The Good: John Fitzgerald
The Bad: RJ, Swede, CNELK, Indian Summer
The Ugly: Clint Howard(See attached photo)

On a serious note, everything hunting is good. Civil discussion makes everyone better hunters.

[Swede]

WW: I feel confident this forum will not turn into a Bowsite or AT. It is people like you that will keep it positive and informative. You and many others have also kept it fun. I believe being fun and informative is what this hunting site is all about. I have to admit I may have not thought enough about where this thread would go when I started it. In my first post it was mentioned that the ugly part of some sites, has been the self destructive way they treat one another. Up to this point we have been able to disagree in a respectful and well thought out manner. Up to this point we have exchanged ideas and stayed friends. I am committed to ensuring that never changes. I accept responsibility for starting this thread. I never envisioned it getting personal. My apologies to anyone I may have offended, and for any other thing that was said that was offensive. I admit that calling the thread "The good, The Bad, & The Ugly" was an attempt to catch people attention. If I had it to do over again it would probably be the "benefits, and the liabilities" or something like that.
In other words If your football team lost today, don't take it out on the folks here.

[WapitiTalk1]

The Good: John Fitzgerald
The Bad: RJ, Swede, CNELK, Indian Summer
The Ugly: Clint Howard(See attached photo)

On a serious note, everything hunting is good. Civil discussion makes everyone better hunters.

I can't believe you posted my uncle's picture. So not cool.

[JohnFitzgerald]

The Good: John Fitzgerald
The Bad: RJ, Swede, CNELK, Indian Summer
The Ugly: Clint Howard(See attached photo)

On a serious note, everything hunting is good. Civil discussion makes everyone better hunters.

I can't believe you posted my uncle's picture. So not cool.

Hey, he made the top 10 ugliest celebrities list. Not my fault. BTW, can you get me an autograph?

[WapitiTalk1]

The Good: John Fitzgerald
The Bad: RJ, Swede, CNELK, Indian Summer
The Ugly: Clint Howard(See attached photo)

On a serious note, everything hunting is good. Civil discussion makes everyone better hunters.

I can't believe you posted my uncle's picture. So not cool.

Hey, he made the top 10 ugliest celebrities list. Not my fault. BTW, can you get me an autograph?

Dang it. Busted. He can't be my uncle as we were both born in 59. I was thinking of someone else. All my relatives are optically challenged so I get confused easily (0n my side of the family of course). Want an autographed pic of Swede? I can check

[JohnFitzgerald]

The Good: John Fitzgerald
The Bad: RJ, Swede, CNELK, Indian Summer
The Ugly: Clint Howard(See attached photo)

On a serious note, everything hunting is good. Civil discussion makes everyone better hunters.

I can't believe you posted my uncle's picture. So not cool.

Hey, he made the top 10 ugliest celebrities list. Not my fault. BTW, can you get me an autograph?

Dang it. Busted. He can't be my uncle as we were both born in 59. I was thinking of someone else. All my relatives are optically challenged so I get confused easily (0n my side of the family of course). Want an autographed pic of Swede? I can check

That's like asking me if I want a sharp stick poked in my eye!

General - Just a friendly reminder that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If we head in the direction of the "other" forums, I'll have to turn the moderators loose. And they are vicious when they have power.

[Indian Summer]

The only bad thing I got from this thread is I can't quit whistling the little rif from the beginning of the Clint Eastwood movie.

[LckyTylr]

From my perspective. My Computer-Ninja-Recliner resides in Boise, ID. As many of you know, Idaho is a wonderful state to live in if you want to hunt bulls/cows every single year with either bow or rifle. Getting a tag is as simple as stopping at a 24-hour walmart on your way out of town at 03:30.

The down side . . . Boise has a LOT . . . . . A L.O.T. of Hunters. Not just your lazy ATV crowd either. We have numerous individuals in this community and in other parts of Idaho that are seriously dedicated to getting in there and hauling out game. The competition is fierce.

For people that didn't grow up hunting elk, or for those that didn't grow up where they hunt, this can be a difficult game to learn. Take, for example, myself. I'm a transplant for the East Coast. As a young boy, I had aspirations to escape the Concrete Jungle (well . . . the rural farm lands of Upstate NY) and travel out West to live the life of adventure and exploration. I landed in Idaho 7 years ago. Year 1, had knee surgery couldn't hunt. Year 2, cut my teeth by hunting something familiar (killed a whitetail doe in the Panhandle). Year 3 to present . . . I have been pursuing the mighty wapiti.

It's been the most challenging thing I have ever pursued. I spent a few years hitting the common "honey holes" that everyone in Boise has been to and for some reason still frequents. I spent a year in never never land trying to outdistance my fellow bipeds and found myself in some pretty desolate and inhospitable places with very little game (and finally no bipeds). THEN . . . I stumbled onto this site.

Whoa . . . let the learning curve be crushed. I earned a stripe or two in the school of hard knocks before I found you guys, but mostly it was bumbling around in areas with few elk and many two-leggeds. Immediately upon joining Elknutforums.com . . . my transformation was evident. I still can't seem to stick a wapiti, but at least I'm in the elk every year now. I have also figured out how to hunt in very crowded areas and still get encounters with very call-shy and weary animals.

In short, the internet (this site) has made my dreams a realization. I'm doing what I had intended to do as a little boy, hunting out of my pack, chasing elk, encountering all of the creatures that roam the West. It's incredible!

Without the www, I may have hunted elk for 6 or 7 years before giving in with frustration. I couldn't find a hunting partner that would "show me the ropes" or even point me in the right direction. It's very frustrating to be such a successful whitetail hunter only to be absolutely schooled by elk. I could have easily given up on elk and chosen to pursue whitetails up North. Thanks to this site, I have persevered. Not only do I have the knowledge to kill elk (it's only a matter of time), I now have a fire burning inside of me to crank up the intensity of my training, my "internet scouting", my boots-on-the-ground scouting, and ultimately, my time spent afield.

The www, this site specifically, has been like a pack of wolves training one of their fledging killers. I may be gangly and awkward now, but in a few more seasons with your guidance, I'm going to be an elk killing machine.

With that, thank you to all of the regular posters that offer guidance and how-to's. Your wisdom is more appreciated than you probably realize.

[Still Hunter]

My parting words.

Teach someone how to hunt.

Teach someone how to shoot.

Teach someone how to scout.

Then cut them loose.

Don't hunt for them.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Everyone can post their opinion without fear of ridicule or personal attack. If anyone feels they've received unfair treatment I would encourage a PM to an administrator or moderator. Please don't try to publicly address it because that leads to arguments.

This forum is known for the quantity and quality of information. So Lets keep educating our forum family.

[Indian Summer]

Cnelk is a bully! He's been pickin on me!

[JohnFitzgerald]

Cnelk is a bully! He's been pickin on me!

He is a bully isn't he. Brad next time PM me so we can double team Joe! He's crying right now, but it's not hard enough.

[Swede]

Still Hunter: Best wishes on your book. You shared some parting advise for us, so please allow me to return the favor. You came here and claimed a lot of knowledge and experience, but we never got to know you. I think you could offer a lot of help to others, but you come off as negative at times and very condescending. If you build up people rather than tear down, or talk down to them, you will be better received. Write your book and share with others around the campfire as an equal. I do not write this for any other reason than to help you see the way others perceive what you wrote on this forum. Again all the best and good-bye.

[jmez]

I think it is a great tool. I don't see a big downside. I think, as others have mentioned, jealousy and selfishness are the major reasons most people don't like forums, helping others, scouting services, guides and outfitters. There is an old saying it often holds true, "Jealousy breeds contempt." We see that played out in various aspects of life every day.

I would think that most everyone that lives and spends their time in elk country still has a huge advantage over those of us that don't. You know the country better, you know the animals better and you know their habits better. You can't buy that type of knowledge from anyone. If I can pay someone to give me an X on a map and stroll into that area and kill elk while someone that lives there can't one of two things. I'm really lucky or they aren't real good elk hunters. Maybe a mix of both. If I see other hunters, there were two right in amongst us last year, I tend not to worry about it. In my mind, I'm in better shape, better prepared, and more willing to do what it takes to get an animal on the ground.

There simply is absolutely no substitute for experience in the elk woods. These aren't just big deer. Paying for information simply gets you information. That, IMO, is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to getting within archery range of an elk, be that a cow, calf or mature bull.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Elknut could hand me a map covered with X's of his honeyholes. Turn us both loose in that area and he is going to outhunt me, see more elk than I do, have more encounters than I do, etc. You can't buy experience.

[Still Hunter]

Still Hunter: Best wishes on your book. You shared some parting advise for us, so please allow me to return the favor. You came here and claimed a lot of knowledge and experience, but we never got to know you. I think you could offer a lot of help to others, but you come off as negative at times and very condescending. If you build up people rather than tear down, or talk down to them, you will be better received. Write your book and share with others around the campfire as an equal. I do not write this for any other reason than to help you see the way others perceive what you wrote on this forum. Again all the best and good-bye.

I can't leave without responding to this. You may be right on how i'm perceived by some. I can't help that. You really can't know what's in a persons mind when he types something. Condescending is not what I feel i'm doing when I make a post. The written word is hard to understand sometimes. If you talk to me in person, or on the phone. You probably won't get the same impression.

With that said. I do get very frustrated with what's happening to hunting, and it probably shows in my posts. I'm from another era. I was taught to do things myself. My dad was super strict it teaching me to hunt his way, and no other way. I didn't question it, because it worked, and I loved it. To be honest. Before getting a computer I thought everybody thought like I did. I can remember my dad telling me.............Son, if the hunt is too easy. It isn't worth spit!

So, i'm not leaving hunting forums, because of anything that's said about me. I'm not bothered by that at all. I'm leaving, because I can't handle how everybody seems ok with making hunting as easy as possible. No matter what. Instant success is all that's important. Maybe i'm sticking my head in the sand by leaving forums. I really can't do anything to stop what's happening. When I try it's not accepted, and I just piss off people. It's better that I just keep it to myself. After all. The only person I need to please is myself. If i'm true to myself. I'm happy. At my age. Being happy is much better than being a grumpy old man.

You all keep doing what you're doing. Be true to yourself, and don't do anything to please others if you feel it's wrong.

Later

[Swede]

Thanks Still Hunter for your response. I see we share a common concern among other things.

I'm leaving, because" ------ "Instant success is all that's important.

If you go back to the original post that started this thread, you will see that "instant success" was identified as a part of the bad. I have cautioned hunters, and would be hunters many times against this very real misunderstanding. Unreal expectations quickly lead to frustration and giving up. I agree that I am all for giving hunters the tools they need to be successful. Many old timers on this forum have dedicated much to passing on their knowledge to the next generation of hunters. We have done everything reasonable to help folks from places like North Carolina and others to be able to have some chance at success out of the box so to speak and to learn all that is needed in a reasonable amount of time. That is what this forum is all about.
I harbor no resentment towards any good hunter. My problem is only with the inconsiderate hunting slob. Lord, just help me not to be one.

[Bowhunter]

It wasn't that long ago that any buck or bull with a bow was to be cherished. What an accomplishment! Now, we are bombarded with hyped-up videos and pictures of monster bucks and bulls all the time. Most people are to wrapped up in inches of antler to be concerned with woodsmanship, communing with nature, friendship and memories. I hate it.

X2

X3 Heck I am happy with a fat cow. I have let some nice whitetail walk by at home because I wasn't excited and shot some smaller ones because it felt right and my pulse was raceing. I have shot some P&Y bucks but don't care to register any. When or if the excitement ever leaves I will take up a new hobby.

[mtnmutt]

From a woman's perceptive with no family or friends as hunting mentors ...

Good: 2013 after reading the forum for months, I learned more about virtual scouting and on the ground scouting, plus so much more. You guys even gave me the tips I needed to figure out how to use a mouth reed after 3 years of trying on my own and getting no where. My learning curve went way up. I would have never gotten there in 10 years by myself. This forum truly should be called the elk hunting mentoring forum.

Good 2: Sharing different ideas and techniques is what happens all the time in education and research. Why not elk hunting? I may try still hunting this year and finally learn to use binoculars in thick timber.

Bad: Reading the equipment section has been costly. I ended up spending money last year that I did not plan for: spotting scope, trail cameras. Do NOT read the equipment section.

Ugly: TV and online videos of seemingly easy trophy kills. Why in the world would anyone want to walk 100 yards from their truck, shoot an animal and be done? For meat yes, but where is the fun? That is not very rewarding or interesting. I wouldn't want to brag about it. I love being in the woods. I do want an elk, but I don't want someone else to do all the work for me. It needs to be rewarding, otherwise, I should not be out there at all.

Ugly 2: The internet(forums)/Arpanet (newsgroups) has a much higher percentage of the "bad" than in 1987 when I first started using it. Some of it is due to poor wooding which I am guilty of myself at times. Therefore, not intended. Then there are those that are the "bullies" that get their kicks bashing others. Most other people do not think much of them either unless they are part of the same pack of wolves. These people have insecurities and get their kicks trying to hurt others.

Filter through all the noise on the internet to find the good stuff. The gems (elknut forum) are there to be found.

[Indian Summer]

Goodest of the goods (new word): You guys, the friends I've made on here. Nothing I can learn will top that. Crazy but I talk to you guys more than I do some of my friends here in Pa. Guys I was best man for at their weddings etc. I have more in common with the average elknut. Look at you Patricia... gone for awhile and we all notice it right away... Where is MtnMutt??

The good here is that we are proof that there are good people on the internet who have learned how to use it properly and for the right reasons.

[Freebird134]

The good here is that we are proof that there are good people on the internet who have learned how to use it properly and for the right reasons.

Well said!