Paradox Pack Reviews

by **RockChucker30** » 01 16, 2014 • [Post 1]

Dave Chennault of Backpacking Light has had one of our packs since September and put over 300 miles on it. He wrote an incredibly detailed review that was just published on their site. BPL is a membership driven site, so I'm not sure how much you can see without joining, but for anyone interested it is an awesome resource.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... nault.html

Also, Scott Reekers did a multipack review that was published on 24hourcampfire, and the Paradox was one of the packs reviewed.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/index.html

Hope this helps anyone interested in our pack!

Nathan

by **cnelk** » 01 16, 2014 • [Post 2]

I have read reviews of many products over the years and spent my hard earned money based on them.
I have found that most are inadequate, are inaccurate and usually come with an endorsement.

For instance, here are a few things I what I have found out the hard way.

Badlands make a good pack but their zippers suck and dont know where to place belt pockets
Eberlestock also makes a good pack but they are obsessed with pockets
The soles of Rocky boots are too hard in cold weather
Sleeping bags arent rated correctly

Like many others, Im just an 'regular joe' who hunts hard each fall and uses gear per their intended use.
It sure is disappointing to buy stuff that doesnt cut it

by **kevin_t** » 01 17, 2014 • [Post 3]

Hi cnelk

No endorsements were a part of any reviews. We strive for the most objective reviews we can based on real use. There are several other personal observation reviews, most posted on 24hrcampfire that have similar observations.

Thanks
Kevin

by **kevin_t** » 01 19, 2014 • [Post 4]

Here are some recent photos of newer products . Videos to follow shortly

: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1390172939.151559.jpg (64.1 KiB) Viewed 19160 times

: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1390172958.317632.jpg (55.35 KiB) Viewed 19160 times

by **RockChucker30** » 01 19, 2014 • [Post 5]

cnelk wrote:I have read reviews of many products over the years and spent my hard earned money based on them.
I have found that most are inadequate, are inaccurate and usually come with an endorsement.

For instance, here are a few things I what I have found out the hard way.

Badlands make a good pack but their zippers suck and dont know where to place belt pockets
Eberlestock also makes a good pack but they are obsessed with pockets
The soles of Rocky boots are too hard in cold weather
Sleeping bags arent rated correctly

Like many others, Im just an 'regular joe' who hunts hard each fall and uses gear per their intended use.
It sure is disappointing to buy stuff that doesnt cut it

cnelk,

Did you read the review?

Dave Chennault is a writer, blogger, adventure racer, backpacker, and backpack hunter. He put over 300 miles on our pack in three months. In addition to that, Dave MYOG's his own backpacks. He has a much better understanding of design than most average joes.

Thanks,
Nathan

by **cnelk** » 01 19, 2014 • [Post 6]

Nathan and Kevin
Yes. I read both reviews.

Your pack sounds like it ranks very well.

Now, let me review the 'reviews'.

I dont know either of these guys so this is very objective.
In fact never heard of them.

Im sure Dave Chennault knows his stuff. And is probably not the 'Average Joe'
But when people read reviews they are interested in the item - Average Joes included.
They are interested in the good, bad and ugly.
I didnt see any 'bad or ugly' in his review. Only good.
Maybe its because Im not a member of that site
Why wouldnt a reviewer say something negative about a product?
That makes this 'Average Joe' cautious.

Scott Reekers did a much better job reviewing packs.
You can tell by the details described.
This is the type of review 'Average Joes' are wanting to see - The Good, Bad, and Ugly.

Got a question tho
So how does a company select their 'reviewers'? Do they have to be famous?
Not Average Joes?

by **kevin_t** » 01 19, 2014 • [Post 7]

Hi cnelk

Yes Scott's review is much more from the average joe point of view and he gave a very real world , real guy perspective. Dave did ding us on a couple things , but those have been addressed. I would say you are correct in that he is not an average joe, he spends a lot more time under a pack than most folks doing a variety of activities. Backpackinglight.com as a whole, takes a much more scientific approach to reviews with a lot of detail and focus on failure points and of course weight.

I can understand your apprehension of a more seasoned reviewer vs an average joe. They both have benefits. The avg joe often does not really understand the design aspects, potential failure points and actual construction quality and often times more seasoned reviewers are often more salesperson. We seek neither. We are glad Dave C was so impressed with our pack, but we did not ask him to be a salesperson. Backpackinglight is known for very thorough reviews and the Paradox review that Dave C did follows in this tradition. IMO, it is an exceptional pack, with exceptional comfort across a broad range of loads. It's design is truely an evolution and it's balance of performance, weight and construction is fantastic. Granted, I'm heavily involved in the product, but I also spend a great deal of time with a pack on my back. I probably spend much more time than the average joe. I'm also pretty good at engineering and always have been. I've applied it well to several different disciplines.

Kevin

by **cnelk** » 01 19, 2014 • [Post 8]

Thanks for your reply.

I too have applied my strengths in many different disciplines in life with great success.

I wish you the best of luck in your business venture.
Just remember, those 'Average Joes' out there buy a lot gear and can make or break a product.

by **kevin_t** » 01 19, 2014 • [Post 9]

Thanks cnelk

Scott's review as well as several other reviews on campfire have been of the average Joe type. Nothing wrong with it at all after all average joes are the majority of the field users. David's provides a depth and detail not offered in many reviews that goes over many of the nuances that makes the paradox work. It's just a different type of review , however he spent a lot if time under the pack as well. Both are needed and valuable

by **RockChucker30** » 01 20, 2014 • [Post 10]

Cnelk,

If you're not a member of BPL then you can only read the summary. There is a roughly 6000 word review there that you didn't see unless you purchased the article.

If what you read was only the summary, then in that case I understand where you're coming from. It's like writing a book review after reading only the prologue.

In short, he covers our pack in more detail than any other review that I've ever seen in any field. I am very impressed with his level of understanding, detail, and work that went in. He noted shortcoming of the pack, and he noted shortcomings of his review. Very, very well done.

Nathan

by **kevin_t** » 01 21, 2014 • [Post 11]

Here are a couple more photos of packs coming off the production line. 3 lbs 11 ounces , 5800 CI capacity, very storm proof pack bag design, 150 lb plus load rating

: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1390322013.202376.jpg (57.09 KiB) Viewed 19094 times

: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1390322029.438208.jpg (69.98 KiB) Viewed 19094 times

Extremely efficient

by **cnelk** » 01 21, 2014 • [Post 12]

Very nice.
Can we see a pic of the frame and belt?

by **Mikeha33** » 01 21, 2014 • [Post 13]

Looks like a fantastic product, with a good review by an expert.

Here's what you want to hear; I'll give you $5,000.00 for a 34% share of your company

by **RockChucker30** » 01 21, 2014 • [Post 14]

Mikeha33 wrote:Looks like a fantastic product, with a good review by an expert.

Here's what you want to hear; I'll give you $5,000.00 for a 34% share of your company

LOL!

Here's a pic of the frames.

by **Huntrgathr** » 01 21, 2014 • [Post 15]

I take every review with a "grain of salt". The one review on these packs I thought was very informative. The other one, I'm not going to pay to find out. Maybe you're being a little tough in these guys CNELK. No review is entirely objective. Especially not " average Joe" reviews. These are mostly done by guys who bought the pack and are trying to justify the $600+ they just spent. I'd love to try one of these Paradox frames but still looking hard at the HH full curl and the Eberlestock offerings...

by **FemoralArchery** » 01 21, 2014 • [Post 16]

Where in do you live huntrgathr? I live in Caldwell, and I have the evo frame.

by **Huntrgathr** » 01 21, 2014 • [Post 17]

Femoral - I live in Star. I'd love to check out your frame ! Is it the current model ?

by **cnelk** » 01 21, 2014 • [Post 18]

I had no intention of 'being a little tough'.
I was just stating that not all reviews are created equal and certainly do not reflect the opinion of others.

Im sure the Paradox Packs are a great item and are worth the money.
And I hope all the hard work and efforts by Nathan and Kevin pay off for them.

Being in a good business means you have to work hard, have good customer service and be perceptive to all who review your product and your communication

by **itsnlkthing** » 01 21, 2014 • [Post 19]

I think these guys are trying to do just that. They've been very responsive to feedback and design criticism and quickly put those changes into their design. They have a different design concept that they seem to be struggling to articulate to the market. I'm sure they welcome your feedback even as a non - reviewer as that helps them to understand market perception.

by **sreekers** » 01 21, 2014 • [Post 20]

Will answer one thing here quick. I am in the middle of a move and time is a commodity, so if I don't respond as quickly as I normally do, that is why.

I am an average Joe, who has been freelance reviewing for a couple of years now. My partner in the review is another average guy, who rucks heavy loads in the military on a regular basis. We paid for the packs ourselves, with the exception of the Paradox because we had one of the first testers. We shipped it out to the next guy after we were done. I talked with Aron Snyder of Kifaru, Kurt Raccicot of Stone Glacier, and both of the guys at Paradox during the review. We only had one interaction with Mystery Ranch, and it was positive as well.

We did this review because we wanted to, we enjoy testing gear, and had a great opportunity with a large audience on 24hourcampfire. I put a lot of miles on in season, and so did Nevada. All miles where we learned all kinds of things about these packs, and pack fit in general.

by **kevin_t** » 01 22, 2014 • [Post 21]

itsnlkthing wrote:I think these guys are trying to do just that. They've been very responsive to feedback and design criticism and quickly put those changes into their design. They have a different design concept that they seem to be struggling to articulate to the market. I'm sure they welcome your feedback even as a non - reviewer as that helps them to understand market perception.

Thanks for giving us the opportunity to try and articulate our core concepts. At the most basic level we believe in efficiency. We accomplish this with a sturdy frame and top notch belt that prevents suspension torso collapse coupled with very weather proof pack bag designs and a top notch compression system. I believe we have accomplished all three of those. The belt and frame have always worked well, we did adjust the harness a bit and updated harnesses are available all you need to do is contact us. Now, I believe our latest refinements to the pack bags result in pack bags that are as fine as any. The roll top above has a full side access zipper, that is covered. The roll top is a secure weather proof closure and the fabric is forever waterproof. What this results in, is a pack that will gain very little water weight as compared to others, a pack bag that blood washes right out, a pack bag that you can just put your gear in without putting it in extra stuff sacks to keep your gear dry. We have made pack rain covers obsolete in our design, which is a good thing, because honestly they were a failed idea to begin with. You had the choice to carry the extra weight or not, if its a drizzle and you don't put it on, your pack will gain weight and your gear may get wet. If you put it on, now you have reduced access to the bag. Our design is so much better for real backpacking use. The compression system is highly adaptable, and can compress almost anything. Thus far it's carried a complete whitetail, a rescue litter, truck tires and whatever else.

Yes our system is very different than most and really draws on the last 40 years of design, with many changes , some obvious and some subtle such as tailoring and tabs. I had NO desire to make a pack like everyone else, as I saw most of those designs as a failure, that were based as much on ways to cheaply produce gear as anything. It's a copy cat league, so everyone else followed along and really tried to improve designs that were fundamentally flawed IMO. I could go on for a long time on many of the failed design aspects and what I would consider band aids to make them work (such as a rain cover for your pack) but I won't waste your time. We take great pride in the fact that we believe the Paradox is the only pack that really can carry 15 and 150 lbs equally as well (within reason) due to it's design. We also take great pride in our construction details and feel the pack will stand the test of time with the best of them. Every single piece of the pack is easily replaced. There is not a catastrophic failure point that renders it useless. So far, and it won't always be this way, I have assembled and inspected every pack, put them all on my back before they ship.

Kevin

by **FemoralArchery** » 01 22, 2014 • [Post 22]

What is different in the updated harness? I bought mine in September, is there something I should get updated?

Huntrgathr, I'll pm you and see if we can't meet up one of these days and you can check it out.

by **RockChucker30** » 01 22, 2014 • [Post 23]

Adam, we had several requests for thicker padding in the harness so we widened the shoulder straps a bit, changed foams slightly, and lined the underside with 3d mesh.

I thought the original harness was ok, and I think the new one is really really good.

Nathan

by **FemoralArchery** » 01 22, 2014 • [Post 24]

Is it hard to swap them out? What would it cost me to swap them out?

I haven't hauled any heavy loads with mine, and I don't have any complaints. But, hey, if there's a more comfortable option, I'll take that option.

Thanks again Nathan for the great pack and the amazing service.

by **RockChucker30** » 01 23, 2014 • [Post 25]

It's actually extremely simple to swap out. You can do That in a minute or two.

Shoot me an email.

Nathan

by **kevin_t** » 01 27, 2014 • [Post 26]

Here are a few photos from the weekend of various configurations. Yes the snow was way to thin for skis but there was about 4 miles that was ski able. No one had been in the area for a couple months so the animals were
very relaxed. Elk had been bedded just off of ridge lines on the edge of timber. Several big horn rams were just out feeding.
Enjoy

: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1390848007.585543.jpg (100.45 KiB) Viewed 19007 times

Rams

: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1390848074.317943.jpg (72.49 KiB) Viewed 19007 times

With pocketed lid and orange base talon

: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1390848110.984603.jpg (96.88 KiB) Viewed 19007 times

With just a pocketed lid and busting a lot of brush

Cheers
Kevin

by **itsnlkthing** » 01 29, 2014 • [Post 27]

Nice pic's! Looks like a great day for a stroll. .

by **RockChucker30** » 02 01, 2014 • [Post 28]

We've had requests for pics showing bow carry.

by **RockChucker30** » 02 03, 2014 • [Post 29]

I've had people asking how to best adjust our pack.

Fitting and adjusting a Paradox is fast and simple.

To adjust the harness, load the pack with some weight, shoulder it, set the belt, and adjust the harness to where it needs to be.

If you've got a short torso then you can gain a couple more inches of adjustment by extending the hipbelt connection out to the longer grommet.

[/quote]

by **kevin_t** » 02 14, 2014 • [Post 30]

A short but fairly comprehensive overview

Cheers

by **RockChucker30** » 05 20, 2014 • [Post 31]

Quick update, the website now has better product photos.

Last Thursday my wife and I were setting up our outdoor booth at Appalachian Trail Days in Damascus, VA. It was raining sideways at the time. It was one of those miserable miserable days.

The AT ran about 10 feet in front of our space, and hikers would periodically trudge by in the slopping rain. One poor guy was wearing a pack that was about 50 liters in size, and he had a rain cover on it that must have been a 70-80 liter size.

It had rained so much that the bottom of his rain cover had actually filled up with water, and it was swinging back and forth. Probably two quarts of water was hitting his rear on each step.

Guys, THAT is why we use X-Pac for our pack bags. Kevin and I have both been there, done that, and it royally SUCKS.

It poured the next day as well, so I left my personal pack out to get drenched. The contents were dry as a bone afterward.

by **FemoralArchery** » 05 23, 2014 • [Post 32]

What is your email again? My dad is taking my pack to Colorado this September and I figured I would upgrade the straps for him.

by **RockChucker30** » 05 24, 2014 • [Post 33]

Its nathan@paradoxpacks.com

Shoot me an email and we'll get you taken care of.