Broadheads and blood trails

[Willie makit]

2013 was my first full year switching to carbon arrows, up till last year I shot 2213 aluminum with 125gr snuffer broad heads. I am now using gold tip 5575 with G5 100gr, a huge reduction in cut diameter but my comfortable distance is almost double. I plan to switch to Easton FMJ arrows right after my deer season to up my arrow weight.

I’ve shot three deer this year with this current setup and am not impressed at all with the blood trail my current setup leaves. One deer (we) trailed for 200 yrds and never recovered it was very early and cant 100% confirm hit, the second was a perfect lung shot but the arrow only went in 6 - 10 inches and later we found arrow was snapped off about 2" past the broad head. It was only a 30 yard shot and we lost this deer at a deep water crossing.
The other went about 150 yrds and we found it. it was a perfect low lung shot pass through but the blood trail was not good at all, i knew deer went down as I heard it crash.

My biggest problem is Im red-green colorblind and if it is not a very, very good blood trail, Im fighting an uphill battle. No more than any of these deer bled, if my dad had not been there i would not have gotten 50 yrds. Since Ill most likely be spending a lot of my elk hunts solo I need to get the best broadhead for a quick and easy to follow blood trail. Im tempted to get on the rage bandwagon but im not too much for mechanicals, plus i understand they tend not to pass through, especially on bigger critters such as elk. I want to set up to use same for deer and elk so no switching back and forth.

Ill definitely look into and have some kind of blood lights or chemicals to help me follow blood trails but id rather have a solid quick kill with good blood to follow in the first place. I realize this has been thrashed around before but Im looking at my blood trailing shortcomings ahead of time.

[ChukarNUT]

I will tell you from experience--a mature bull is a TOUGH animal. even with a good vital hit i lost one a few years ago. so IMO there is no way i would ever take a chance with a mechanical on elk...deer sure..elk no way. with that said i have always used slick trick standard 100's from deer to bear to elk. have always had great penetration-blood trails-accuracy-etc. and have never lost an animal with slick tricks. i know there are alot of other slick trick fans on the forum here. viper tricks and razor tricks are supposed to be sweet too.

[Swede]

I agree with chuckarnut. I have killed and recover many elk that had little or no blood trail. Tree stand kills are terrible for leaving scant blood trails. Recovering an elk can be difficult and time consuming, but you will need to have a plan to increase your recovery rate. A better broad head may help, but it is not the complete answer.
I hope I am not hijacking your thread here but, there are some good tips on trailing wounded animals on the forum. Maybe we can get some more here. I know it is good to look for more evidence than blood when tracking. I can sometimes locate one by smell too.

[Toby]

If you like you 125 grains Snuffers and have been satisfied with their blood trails, why not keep using them. FMJ's will up your arrow weight and so will the 125 grain Snuffers, but that's not a bad thing. Confidence in your set up is very important. It's hard to tell from the information, but penetration may be an issue with your current set up, maybe a tuning issue.

I would think a razor sharp Snuffer on the front end of an FMJ would be a great elk arrow. A little slower arrow really isn't that much of a factor, especially if you have a range finder.

[ElkNut1]

Broadheads are only as good as we allow them to be! There are 3 major considerations to very good or very poor blood trails. For good blood trails. 1- Heads that create the larger wound channels - 2- Penetration in the kill zone -- 3- Most important razor, razor, razor sharp heads! Blood is spilled by cutting, you do not want mediocre sharp heads that are pushing veins, vessels or arteries aside you want the head cutting everything it comes in contact with. More damage more blood. High shots produce less blood than low shots. Rare is the head in the wrong, it's sharpness & shot location. In many cases an animal is not hit where we'd hoped or think it's hit thus as a result we have long tracking jobs with poor blood trails, hit them where they live with razor sharp heads & they do not go far, generally under 300yds. Too, pass throughs are nice but not necessary for good blood trails.

Make sure you do not practice with hunting heads & then put them straight in your quiver feeling they are sharp enough, no, razor them or change to new blades. Too, if using a cut on contact head they all need to be sharpened to a razors edge, they generally are not sharp out of the package! Good Luck!

ElkNut1

[bnsafe]

like folks have already said on here, its shot placement. I hit my elk with a standard slick trick thru both lungs and didn't find a drop of blood for 50 yds or so an very spotty blood from there. I lost the trail several times in the 125 yd recovery. I followed tracks for the first 50. when I finally found blood it was bright red with bubbles all over it so I knew I hit him in the lungs. but, I hit him mid chest with the arrow angling up an hit the off side scapula so I didn't get two holes. he feeled up internally but gave me a lousy blood trail. not sure what the answer is completely.

[Freebird134]

I'm probably not as experienced as many here, but i've noticed blood trails come down to three things: cutting diameter, pass throughs and shot placement.

[Indian Summer]

Man there have already been some really good replies! Just a quick comment which agrees with Elknut's theories: More blades/more cutting. I'd rather shoot an elk with a 3 blade head than a 2 blade for that reason. No question you'll get more blood. Also... with a marginal hit, a single lengthwise cut from a 2 blade head can clot up and seal up producing less blood than will a multi direction cut from a 3 blade. Those types of entry hole are WAY less likely to clot up and quit bleeding. That's why with a head like a Magnus Buzzcut the secondary blades are called "bleeder" blades. They don't just produce more blood, they produce blood longer. Something to think about.

[>>>---WW---->]

Four things effect blood trails.
1) A well tuned bow
2)A well tuned arrow
3) Shot placement
4) A broadhead that is so sharp it makes your eyelashes fall off just from looking at it.

I could explain each one of these in detail but it's time to go to church.

[Indian Summer]

Good points WW... a porpoising or serpentining arrow just won't penetrate like one flying straight and true with all of it's energy concentrated in one direction. That's why we hear people using very similar setups with the same placement saying they had very different results right?

Are you going to pray because a blood trail petered out or isn't that related to the thread?

[Willie makit]

Thanks guys, you helped me with my main temptation, which was to do the rage thing, to me they are too much that can go wrong with them but a 2" cut they advertise was tempting. The old 125 gr blades I had/have seemed to have a MUCH larger cut diameter than even the ones they show to make now. I’m going to see about a side by side, trouble with the older ones was they bent really easily.

I took a bow hunter class back years ago and they did two demos about the importance of coc and sharpness that really stuck with me. They took a brand new head out of a package and mounted it on a short arrow shaft sticking out of a board and took a beaver hide and tried to puncture the hide with the broadhead, the guy literally picked himself up off the floor before it went thought the hide! Then he took one he had sharpened and it passed through like butter. The amount of energy lost on the hide was incredible, ever since I ALLWAYS sharpen my broadheads down to razor point and edge with diamond extra fine stones.
The other trick they demoed was two bars about 6 inches apart filled up with rubber bands to simulate arteries, same thing, factory "new" cut quite a few, but the larger head he sharpened sent rubber bands flying. Those two demos stuck with me, as the understanding of how the arrow kills by cleanly severing arteries so they cant clog up easily. I do realize that the newer oem stuff they make now is much sharper than they made 20 + years ago but I still never trust sharpness to any mfg.

Ever since I learned of my color deficiency, I do pay a lot more attention to where my arrow strikes, precisely which way the deer runs, listen intently for a longer period of time, wait at least an hour, trail mainly by the tracks or disturbance and mark where I trailed. A few times the smell gave away the general area. Its just usually never a good thing when you have to start doing loops trying to stumble upon your downed animal.

I just got really down the other day following dad have trouble trailing the deer thinking, “just how am I going to do this on an elk by myself ½ way across the country?”. T-boning a tree would be so much better than wounding any animal or worse killing one an me not being able to find it…… but it happens.
Just concentrate on a solid accurate hit through the boiler room, going for a complete pass through with a big sharp broadhead is all I can do.

[Willie makit]

LOL, step four!

WW please post a video of that! I get mine sharp, but I think im still short of your definition.

I was having tuning issues earlier with fletching contact with my rest and think that might have had a lot to do with it but the shot placement and arrow flight looked absolutely perfect. But then again everything can be perfect and you still come up short, I just hope the deer survived and is so much the wiser now, the not knowing is what sux.

[Freebird134]

I've never been convinced of the sharpness requirements some people talk about. I've killed deer and had fantastic blood trails with relatively dull, chipped blades. I don't make it a habit....and I see no downside of a razor sharp broadhead....but I've never seen any convincing evidence that a surgically sharp broadhead is better than a kinda sharp one.

Again, I don't see a downside to having razor sharp broadheads. But I think it's a hold-over from days of recurves when (I'm guessing) blade sharpness may have mattered more. With modern equipment, I don't see it. It's just become dogma at this point, and a bragging point (e.g., "my blades are sharper than your blades"). If anyone knows of a comparison between dull and sharp broadheads, I'd love to see it. But I've never noticed a difference.

I'll stick with shot placement, cutting surface (diameter), and getting a pass through as the major (*controllable*)factors in blood trails.

[Toby]

Try taking a dull Broadhead mounted on an arrow shaft and run it across the top of your big tow with just the weight of the arrow on it, then do the same with a razor sharp one

[Freebird134]

Try taking a dull Broadhead mounted on an arrow shaft and run it across the top of your big tow with just the weight of the arrow on it, then do the same with a razor sharp one

Try it at 250fps and tell me if it makes a difference

[Toby]

I hear ya, I just fooling with ya.
Good Luck
Toby

[Z Barebow]

Willie- We are in the same boat re: color blind and we have the exact same thoughts.

I have been using Snuffers for years for this exact reason. I need a lot more blood on the ground than non color blind guys. They are tougher to tune IMHO. And last year I started dabbling with other heads because I couldn't get my Snuffers to fly out of my new bow. I was able to get Razortricks to fly with my FP's. I picked up some Stingers also and they are built like a brick sh!thouse. If they fly well out of my set up, I will be seeing how much bl0od they put on the ground.

RE: Sharpness. There are many things out of my control at the time of a shot. Having a razor sharp broad isn't one of them. I touch mine up several times throughout the season. They need to shave the hair off of my arm.

[Toby]

I used stingers for a few years, but was never impressed with their blood trails. I also didn't care for the point, has a tendency to roll over.

VAP's are similar to Snuffers, but give better flight.

Sharpness is a big deal, blood vessels will slide past a dull head.

The arrow is only traveling 250fps a few feet from the bow, it slows down a lot as it penetrates hair, hide, muscle, ribs..........

Sharp is the way to go.

Take a look at Viper tricks! razor sharp! great penetration.

[Freebird134]

Do you think that a broadhead that is RAZOR sharp leaving a bow is really any sharper than a "kinda sharp" broadhead once it's 6" into an animal?

[Stateline]

I'm not a specialist on this, but common sense tells me that sharper is better. I know I can really tear up a coyote or raccoon hyde with a sharp knife, whereas a dull blade has a hard time hurting it. The sharper it is, the more it will cut and the deeper it will go. A good example to me is a Montec vs. a Montec CS (Carbon Steel). We've noticed better damage and penetration from the latter. Again just my persnal opinion.

[Stateline]

Should mention the new Toxic broadheads. A little soon to give a great review, but so far I'm quite impressed with them. SERIOUS wound channel. Not much experience with it in a bone situation but total pass through (easily) on my cousins spike elk this past season through the ribs. Looked like a gimicky head to me, but performance on a 3-D bear target and that spike was fairly convincing. Awesome in fact! Legal in Idaho, not sure about other states due to 7/8" diameter. Doesn't sound very big but it's a serious hole.......no sealing up around a shaft, that's for sure. Need a few more success stories to make it legitimate. Hopefully that will happen soon !

[ElkNut1]

Brandon, absolutely! You hunt with dull heads & you will pay the price of frustration & scant blood trails.

ElkNut1

[ctdad]

I think shot placement is more important than sharpness. However, I don't believe shot placement is as easily controlled as sharpness is. Animals move, adrenaline affects my ability to execute shot and that little twig I didn't see can all negatively affect my shot placement. I do believe that if shot placement is questionable, I do want a razor sharp head to try to help penetrate the wrong part of the elk to get to the lethal part of the elk.

[Toby]

Do you think that a broadhead that is RAZOR sharp leaving a bow is really any sharper than a "kinda sharp" broadhead once it's 6" into an animal?

I do. Shoot a sharp one and a dull one into foam, and you will see.

Broadheads kill by hemoraging, the more blood vessels, including capillaries that can be cleaning cut, the greater the loss of blood.

[timberland]

Broadheads can kill by hemoraging, but I believe what puts an animal on the ground fast is the inability to get oxygen to the brain and a key factor is also "collapsed" lungs. Meaning I want 2 holes in the chest cavity which means penetration which you will give up with mechanicals and dull broadheads.

[Toby]

Broadheads can kill by hemoraging, but I believe what puts an animal on the ground fast is the inability to get oxygen to the brain and a key factor is also "collapsed" lungs. Meaning I want 2 holes in the chest cavity which means penetration which you will give up with mechanicals and dull broadheads.

Good point.

[Willie makit]

The important thing is the broadhead not only kills by hemoroging but the sharper cleaner cuts on the blood vessels and veins make it harder for the blood platelets to attach and stop the bleeding making it a quicker kill. Broadhead sharpness is really the only sure thing a bow hunter has 100% complete control over in hunting.

[ElkNut1]

Depending on the shot placement determines how an animal expires? Through the lungs causes suffocation with blood loss as well, other vital organs or large tissue damage can result in hemorrhaging, sharp heads are a must for best results. Do not use dull heads!!!!

ElkNut1

[Z Barebow]

We all can agree that a broadhead kills by hemorage.

The best way to describe why sharp arrows are important.

If you have ever cut yourself when shaving, which is easier to quit bleeding. A cut with a new blade, or one with an old razor? As mentioned above, old razors leave a raged edge and allow for easier clotting. A cut with a fresh razor never seems to quit. The cut/wound is too clean and clotting is inhibited.

[otcWill]

Not to derail the thread, but I have noticed that a VERY important factor in recovery of bow-shot bulls is calming them after the shot. Be able to use a diaphragm and have it in your mouth at all times. Stopping the bull after the shot has always led to VERY short recovery for me. Even if he doesn't roll over right there, it'll calm him enough that he goes an extremely short distance.

In short, I think calling IMEDIATELY post shot is dang near as important as having a good sharp broadhead flying out of a well tuned bow.

[Toby]

Do you bugle or cow call after you hit a bull.

[cnelk]

Do you bugle or cow call after you hit a bull.

Either one or both

[Z Barebow]

RE Calling after shot. I usually cow call, but they suck! The main reason is I have a diaphragm already in my mouth. I won't speak to the quality of the calling though,,,,,,,,,,,,, I do agree it is important though, nothing to lose, anything which might cause a shorter blood trail.