Course in Map Reading

[stringunner]

So I was trying today to paste a picture of a topo map so as to get some of you map reading experts on here to teach how to obtain gps coordinates from a map. I know how to convert coordinates from google earth into my gps with help from my computer but never have been able to pick it up on how to read gps coordinates on a map. I know information like map datum and map scale are all part of it but I am no where close to being efficient. I know how to read and map and such, I would just really like to be able to pick a spot on a map and figure the coordinates.

Any takers in walking those of us who don't know how through the process OR is there a great website that I haven't found that can easily teach this?

[cohunter14]

The coordinates are typically located on the top and sides of a topo map. You can use those to help find the exact coordinates of certain locations.

[cnelk]

OK.
Before I had a GPS I did what you are looking for.
On each side of a map are small Lat/Long blue tic marks - both sides and top & bottom

Take a long ruler and connect these tic marks to create a grid on the map.
Once that is complete you will need a small plastic grid scale
You then find a place on the map and scale your area down using the scale to create sub coordinates

It sounds confusing but not too bad with some practice

[SoCo Mark]

One thing I did was switch to the UTM scale. The UTM scale, in simple terms, is a 2 sets of lines, one set running east/west and the other running north/south, creating 1000 meter by 1000 meter "boxes" on your map. Each east/west line is numbered as is each north/south line. These lines are printed onto a map. Then, using a UTM reading tool, you can "measure" over from each line and pretty accurately find where you are on a map. This UTM reading tool is nothing more than a transparent piece of plastic that is the size of on 1000 meter by 1000 meter box. That box then has 10 lines running north/south and ten lines running east/west, which dissects one of the 1000 meter boxes equally. Overlay the tool on the map, count how many lines you are from the map lines and you can quickly get with in 100 meters. Spend some more time, and you can pretty much find your exact location on a map.
Most GPS units will read in the UTM scale. Your UTM coordinates will be something like 13-384 and then 39- 629. So, you find where lines 13 and 39 intersect, and then you will be and measure from the 13 line toward the 14 line, 384, or just a little less than 4 of the interior lines on your reader. And then from the 39 line, measure toward the 40 line, 629, or about 6 and a third interior lines on your reader.
The above coordinates are basically telling you that you are 384 meters from the 13 line and 629 meters from the 39 line.

Now, I just read my answer and can only imagine I've probably confused people more than help them. The UTM system is really very simple to use. But I've found it difficult to explain, lol. If anyone else can explain this better, I'm sure some will find it a great alternative to the lat/long method... I believe the military teaches it, but not sure on that. I know this, since using it I always know exactly where I'm at. As long as my gps is working.....

The down side is your map has to have the UTM lines on it. Some have them, some have small tic lines at the edge that you may have to extend. Mytopo will print them on your custom map if requested, for a small charge.

Clear as mud???

[cnelk]

Every spot within a zone can be defined by a coordinate system that uses meters. Your vertical position is defined in terms of meters north and your horizontal position is given as meters east. They are sometimes referred to as your northing and easting. In the following picture you can see the northing and easting coordinates on the boarder of the topo map. They are the small bold black numbers. Along the edge of the map the first UTM shown is 3901000 meters north. On a regular topo map the dash above that number would be blue. As you go up the right hand side of the map, the next UTM is 3902000 meters north. As you go up the right hand side of the map every time you pass a the small blue dash you have gone up 1000 meters (one meter = 3.281 feet). The same applies with the UTM's across the bottom of the map.

[Swede]

For maps with latitude and longitude, or UTM coordinates you need to interpolate to get reasonably close to what you will find on the ground. After interpolating the Latitude and longitude, put it into your GPS. If I am looking at a spring on t topographic map I will also make note of the elevation, as that can help me get closer to my target location. When you go to the location in the forest, pay attention to the terrain features on the map. If your target is on a northwest facing slope remember you do not have exact coordinates. Find the nearest NW facing slope on the same elevation you have for the target. If you can see out and take compass readings on mapped points, you can also run a line on that bearing from that point to cross where your are. If you have two known point in view you can pinpoint your exact location. Just don't forget to correct for declination (the difference between true and magnetic north).
Stringunner, if I see you in camp this summer while over there scouting or in the hunting season I will give you a few minutes to check you out. I only know about 10 minutes worth on out door navigation, but it could be valuable.

[Jelf]

Cnelk posted a snip from a topo map along with some good information about UTM coordinates.

The following link displays an high resolution online topo map. The center of this map is the lower left corner of the map snip posted by cnelk. To display a UTM grid on this map click Menu ==> UTM - LatLng - Off

http://www.mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.p ... &z=15&t=t4

Full disclosure time: I am the developer of the Gmap4 browser app. It is free for non-commercial use and part of my way to “pay it forward”. The hi-res topos ("t4 topo high") cover the USA.

Gmap4 works in most browsers on most devices, from smartphones to desktops. If you open a Gmap4 link with the browser on your smartphone or other mobile device, then it automatically displays a touch friendly interface. Your browser has to be online.

The Gmap4 homepage has a FAQ, examples, quick start info (in the Help file) and more to quickly get you up to speed.

Gmap4 default map: http://www.mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.php

Gmap4 homepage: http://www.mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.html

Joseph, the Gmap4 guy
Redmond, WA

[stringunner]

Thanks guys for the help. And yes SoCo Mark I was able to follow your post. I think I will look at the UTM System. Cnelk thanks for throwing up the pic and explaining it that helped a bunch. I have gotten pretty good at figuring locations out with coordinates and such using the computer but have found myself going over maps at camp and not having access to the internet and wishing I was able to pull coordinates off a map to put into my gps while at camp. Thus the question. Jelf I will be checking out your site. Thanks for posting that.

John I look forward to picking your brain more about this when our paths cross this summer or fall. I'm hoping however for more than 10 minutes as I'm gathering quite a list of questions for you that go beyond out door navigation.

[Mikeha33]

StringGunner,
My partner last year taught me pretty easily how to use the UTM system, and I was amazed, with a little practice, how easily we could find almost exactly where we were on our USGS maps using the UTM tool. Here is a link to a site that helped me a lot.
Good luck.

http://www.maptools.com/UsingUTM/UTMonUSGSmaps.html

[Swede]

Jeremy: I may have learned more than 10 minutes worth of information related to land navigation and map reading over the years. You are more than welcome to anything and everything I know. I will keep in contact so we can do some scouting together this summer. I have noticed you are a quick study. I got to thinking for awhile you learned way too much. I know I will never keep up with you.

[>>>---WW---->]

NOTE TO JOHN & PAUL: This thread would be an excellent one to put on the (Elknuts Tips & Clips) forum.

John is it possible to leave it here as well as move it also to the Tips & Clips so it will show up in both places?

[Swede]

WW: We can put it in the "Archived Tips" real easy and can leave a copy here. We normally just move the file, but either option is open. It is interesting that you ask as RJ and I are discussing having a category for map reading and land navigation. Right now the only place it would fit is under "miscellaneous".

[Z Barebow]

I will add an exclamation to using UTM. I used to do the line across the blue tic marks. I had purchased a plastic rule called "The Card" (from Silva). Once I got the hang of it, you don't need a "card". You can use a dollar bill and develop your own ruler on the bill. Fold over for smaller increments. Once you get to less than 100 meters, you should be close enough for most of the map reading I do.

Another handy feature in conversion when using GE. You can enter your waypoints in Lat/Long (or however you have them stored). Go under Tools/Options and you can change the measurement format. (Not exactly mapping, but related topic)

I use Garmin Base Camp quite a bit. It allows you to view waypoints in GE so it is a easy way to verify your cyber scouting. (ARC GIS Explorer is a good tool also)

[WapitiTalk1]

Here's a couple of pics on how to use a coordinate scale to determine your basic digits (within the grid square measurement). These images have the LAT/LONG lines connected from E to W and N to S as others have mentioned. Six digits will get you within 100 meters, eight digits within 10, and 10 digits within one meter. Add in the rest of the data and you should have something like 0559741 4282182 if I'm seeing the tiny print correctly ..

16f8efa.gif (70.39 KiB) Viewed 13612 times

Grid Overlay COOR Scale.gif (62.12 KiB) Viewed 13612 times

[stringunner]

Phantom- that is awesome. Can you purchase the coordinate scale online somewhere? I'm assuming that is an external device (don't know what else to call it) that you can lay on top of the map? Did you pull those images from a website that teaches how to read it?

[stringunner]

And yes John I plan to stay in touch and connect with you (hopefully) this summer up there to allow for more time to converse and such when we are not pre-occupied with wanting to be on stand. I was hoping to gather a few thoughts and send you an email and follow up with phone conversation based on some map scouting I have been doing lately.

[WapitiTalk1]

Phantom- that is awesome. Can you purchase the coordinate scale online somewhere? I'm assuming that is an external device (don't know what else to call it) that you can lay on top of the map? Did you pull those images from a website that teaches how to read it?

Yep. Check out various on line map stores. I used these for years in the army. They're clear plastic. If carrying in the field, get one with round corners.

[Jelf]

If anyone is practicing figuring out UTM coordinates using one of those plastic scale thingies and a topo map then you can use Gmap4 to check yourself and make sure you are reading the plastic scale correctly.

This link displays the default map of the world:
http://www.mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.php

Next, do Menu ==> Search and look for the nearest town or something. You can also search on latitude longitude (decimal degrees, WGS 84 datum). Then zoom and pan till you find your spot.

To see the hi-res topos click the button in the upper right corner of the map and select "t4 Topo high".

Right click the spot on the Gmap4 topo where you are reading the UTM coordinates from your paper topo. A window will appear that displays the coordinates in various formats, including UTM.

Joseph, the Gmap4 guy

[Swede]

A 1:24,000 scale grid is great for a 1:24,000 scale map. Are there other grids for other scale maps? I have always ended up doing the scale work with a ruler. A little cheater like RJ's would be great for my 1" per mile scale fireman's maps.

[WapitiTalk1]

A 1:24,000 scale grid is great for a 1:24,000 scale map. Are there other grids for other scale maps? I have always ended up doing the scale work with a ruler. A little cheater like RJ's would be great for my 1" per mile scale fireman's maps.

Ha ... This is the best I can come up with. Covers a few map scales. Just snip/round the corners off so it doesn't poke a hole in your pocket.

image27.gif (49.95 KiB) Viewed 13569 times

[quote="Jelf"] If anyone is practicing figuring out UTM coordinates using one of those plastic scale thingies and a topo map then you can use Gmap4 to check yourself and make sure you are reading the plastic scale correctly.

Don't sleep on the military coordinate scale. It's called in accurate firepower on bad guys for many wars

[cnelk]

One thing that I like about UTM is that its in meters, which is fairly close to yards.
And with each grid square is 1000m, a person can quickly deduce that half a grid is 500yds, and half of that is ~250yds.
As you get used to using Easting and Northing, it wont take long to quickly navigate on a map.

One thing to do when you start incorporating the coordinates into your gps, is make sure your hunting buddies also have their gps set to UTM.
Decimal Degrees or DMS wont work

[Daved270]

This is some great information! Thanks guy's!!

[>>>---WW---->]

Here are a couple of other options . I have a Nexus Type 15 compass. It is the same exact thing as a Sylva Ranger. Many Special Ops would rather have either one of these and discard their military compass. If you have one of these, you can get by without the UTM card.

Mine has several scales on it as well as being able to adjust declination to true north. The scales include the following.

1)inches

2) mm

3) 1-25000 scale for that type of map reading. I have no idea why it is printed that way but that is close enough to 1-24000 to work right

4) 1-50000 scale if you have those type of maps

5) The center hub has east & west declination lines. (Not needed if you have it adjusted to true north. And remember, if you have that feature, both your compass and GPS should be adjusted that way to correspond with your USGS maps

6) It can also be used as a level. Could come in handy when tuning your bow.

7) You can also measure slope angles with it

The other option is a micro SD card from HuntingGPSmaps.com. It shows the entire state you choose on a 1-24000 scale map. And it tells your exact location or any other location you choose in either longitude & latitude or UTM. Again, which ever you choose. And by being an actual map on your GPS, it can show you exactly on the map just where you are or want to be. The card I have also tells the land owners name weather it is private, state, BLM, or Forest. Pretty gang cool!

It sure makes navigation simple. But you have to remember that electronic gadgets can go hay-wire. So know your map and compass and know how to use them properly.

[stringunner]

I do have the SD card from huntinggpsmaps for Oregon. This is a great tool particularly as it shows public and private.

[Triplebhunters]

Very good thread. I learned more in the last five minutes reading this than I have in the last five years searching the web. Very nice teachings.

[Chukarhunter]

A good way to get familiar with your map and GPS would be to do some local geocaching. There are a lot of people doing this for fun, and it's a great way to become proficient without going far from home. As a trainer for my local search and rescue team, I used to do a number of geocaching weekends for the squad.
If you're not familiar with it, see: http://www.geocaching.com/

[cnelk]

geocaching rocks!

[cnelk]

Below is a pic of a compass that was given to me by my grandpa.
He used it to survey his homestead in 1914

The other pic is the compass that WW mentioned that has a few scales on the edges. UTM / Inch / cm / 1:24 / 1:62

A bit of a change

[>>>---WW---->]

(silva ranger cl compass) Here is the one I was talking about Brad. Do a search for it and you will see that it has many more feature. It's a great tool!

[>>>---WW---->]

http://store.silvacompass.com/professio ... -ranger-cl

Here is a link for the Sylva Ranger Compass. And if you scroll down on the link you can download instructions on how to use it. Choose the English one. Some great information on compass use there.