Elk Hunting Basics......Your Move, Thread #7

[Trophyhill]

I think this scenario will be as basic as the concept of these threads and has happened or will happen to anyone hunting elk long enough.

so you've done everything right, up to this point, you've found the elk, you've made the correct sounds and so forth to bring a herd bull into your wheel house. the bull comes in silent or screaming in. doesn't matter in this scenario because it will happen both ways eventually. you've set up in a great spot where you just know that bull will step into 1 of several spots where you will have a great opportunity to make a great shot, and then it happens! he comes in and stops in the thickest crap on the mountain looking for the elk that was making those sounds and you don't have a shot. let's say for the sake of argument anywhere from 10-40 yards and moving a few feet or a few yards won't uncover his vitals. you're pinned down and can't move. when the bull doesn't see that elk he was looking for and doesn't move to a spot where you expect him to give you a shot, he leaves the same way he came in. now what do you do?

[easeup]

only know of 3 options trophy;
1) wait and pray
2) roll your head away from him and quietly call-
3) wait him out and when he turns to leave use the nervous grunt quickly

[Trophyhill]

only know of 3 options trophy;

3) wait him out and when he turns to leave use the nervous grunt quickly

this can be tricky because there is a possibility that this bull could move into a spot where you have a shot without making any sounds. but if you try to wait him out he may give you a nervous grunt. then you're screwed. and if the jungle is too thick a nervous grunt still may not get him out into the open and he can still leave the way he came in.

[JGH]

Had this happen in 2013.

6 yards ... Just a few steps away from certain doom! ... then, he backed out the way he came.

I tried the nervous grunt. It stopped him, alright ... in an even thicker patch of jungle at about 20 yards. No go, and what's worse is that he now had me pinned down and went from "confused" to "nervous" real quickly.

Timing.

I'm following this thread ... I like the nervous grunt idea, but suppose it isn't an option, or doesn't work ... then what?

[Elkonthebrain]

I'll try one. Just a guess so don't crucify me if I'm wrong. You could watch which direction he walks away in. Get the wind in your favor, quietly circle around in front of him and set back up and try the same calling that worked the first time in hopes he would come in again and present a shot this time.
Thank you for doing these. There great for learning and a lot of fun.

[JJ Overkill]

I would have to try and call the bull in with a quite cow call away from the bull and hope it works out, call and pray here.

[Swede]

It has been my experience that the game is over when you see this scenario. Before he stopped you could have tried a nervous grunt, but as Tanya Tucker said in her song, "It's a little too late to do the right thing now." He doesn't see the elk he knows is supposed to be there. Too bad for you. Maybe Elknut knows a good trick. I know of nothing.

[cnelk]

There are times that things just dont go your way.
This is one of them. Its called hunting.
Dont spook the bull anymore and you can hunt him again, hopefully with a better result.
If we killed every elk that came into our calling or setups, that wouldnt be very exciting after awhile would it?

[LckyTylr]

This happened to me this year with a big 6 point. Not sure that what I did was right, but it worked twice after the first time I called him.

I called him in the first time with whiney cow calls, but not very often. He took about 30 minutes to get worked up and out of his bed, then another 15 to get him fired up and hot enough to come in. Came in, about to enter a shooting lane at 50 and broadside, caught a sudden change in wind and stopped in the thick looking my way. I thought there was enough brush between his eyes and myself, so I let down. He turned around and went back the way he came at a fast walk/trot, crashing through the brush.

My response, I immediately stood up, nervous barked (since he hadn't yet). I could only see pieces of his hide through the brush, so I took the gamble that he wouldn't be able to see me well either. I picked up my pack and literally started Stomping up the hill away from the bull while doing nervous barks every 5 seconds or so. I did that for about 40 yards until I could hear him following me. At some point he bugled and started paralleling me. I knew I needed to get the wind in my favor, so I started jogging down the ridge line (still noisily crashing through the brush). I stopped twice and could hear him paralleling me in the draw.

I got back into the draw and started anxious/nervous cow calling (very frequent mews) for about 30 seconds until he bugled twice and I could tell that he was closing the gap. He hung up again at 50 yards, obviously knowing that something went awry last time. I knew the wind was in my favor, so I stopped all sounds and hunkered down for the wait. He was at 50 yards for about 10 minutes or so (I think, my head was a blur). He'd bugle about every 45 seconds while he worked over a 8' pine tree. Eventually, after he started drooling all over himself, peeing on himself, making every elk noise I'd ever heard of, I knew he was ready. I reached back, found a small stick and snapped it in half with my thumb. HOLY RED BUTTON! HE Screamed at me, put his head down and RAN OVER that tree. He ran into 30 yards and stopped behind a big tree. He postured there for about 30 seconds before he picked up his foot again to move. I drew. He came to 15 yards and turned broadside, walking from left to right down in the draw.

Should have been a gigantic dead 6-point in my truck that afternoon, but as I was pivoting and tracking his movement waiting for a small shooting lane, my knee slipped and made the slightest noise. He locked onto me, at full draw and 15 yards. I held as long as I could, but he obviously won the staring match and took off out of there.

BUT, I tried the Exact Same response again. He got just out of sight, I let out a really loud nervous bark, and started RUNNING down the hill, crashing like an elephant. He stopped, bugled at me and game charging down after me.

At some point on this 3rd try, I think he winded me again, it took 35 minutes to call him in the 3rd time. I was about 300 yards further down the hill and found myself an abandoned logging road. He was very reluctant to come onto my new shooting lane, but finally did. I caught his antlers coming down through the brush, drew my bow, guessed him at 50 and waited for a shot. He stopped with only his head and neck exposed, with his two front feet in what used to be the uphill ditch of the logging road. Looked both ways like he was crossing a street . . . turned around and walked back up to the hill, bugling as he made his way to his bed.

Poor ol' guy, must have been pretty lovesick to get fooled 3 times by a rookie solo bowhunter.

[Indian Summer]

There are times that things just dont go your way.
This is one of them. Its called hunting.
Dont spook the bull anymore and you can hunt him again, hopefully with a better result.
If we killed every elk that came into our calling or setups, that wouldnt be very exciting after awhile would it?

Exactly Brad. Tomorrow could be another day... unless you really blow your cover. He's too close to try to make a move. Too close to call at in any way shape or form.

The only thing I can think of... but would going outside of the given scenario.. is if I had a partner calling from behind me. Then the two scenarios would be for the caller to move directly away from the bull. I still wouldn't call though. I'd stomp and maybe rake a tree. Something subtle.... he's in your lap! Ok maybe a cow call with my call directed away from him. The other would be to have the caller move left and/or right while stomping. The bull is already in range so I just need him to quit with the "frozen statue" stuff and give me that small window of opportunity I need at this point. That's a tactic I have used with success in the past.

[WapitiTalk1]

There are times that things just dont go your way.
This is one of them. Its called hunting.
Dont spook the bull anymore and you can hunt him again, hopefully with a better result.
If we killed every elk that came into our calling or setups, that wouldnt be very exciting after awhile would it?

Exactly Brad. Tomorrow could be another day... unless you really blow your cover. He's too close to try to make a move. Too close to call at in any way shape or form.

The only thing I can think of... but would going outside of the given scenario.. is if I had a partner calling from behind me. Then the two scenarios would be for the caller to move directly away from the bull. I still wouldn't call though. I'd stomp and maybe rake a tree. Something subtle.... he's in your lap! Ok maybe a cow call with my call directed away from him. The other would be to have the caller move left and/or right while stomping. The bull is already in range so I just need him to quit with the "frozen statue" stuff and give me that small window of opportunity I need at this point. That's a tactic I have used with success in the past.

X3. Very, very tough for a solo hunter in the calling/responding mode to get a shot (ground hunter) in the thick crap which ironically, is really about all I hunt. You can get close to bulls but unless the stars line up perfectly for a solo hunter it seldom results in a shot. In the thick junk, it's sometimes impossible to call, move forward, and set up where the bull may come in. IMO calling for a buddy works better than a solo attack in alder jungles. IS mentioned some solid tatics for a buddy system in the jungles. It's the shooter who has to ice the cake in these thick encounters with the caller doing all the right sounds/movement behind and off to one side. The bull will oftentimes hang up 30-50 yards out from where he heard the hunter call from in a typical caller/shooter scenario and come in repeatedly on some encounters, giving the shooter a potential close range shot.

[>>>---WW---->]

He is hung up in the thick stuff. Hopefully he will eventually have his eyes behind something so he can't see you. This could be the time to try a nervous bark. But you have to beat him to the punch. You must do it to him before he does it to you.

If that doesn't work, well, some days are diamonds and some days are coal! But whatever you do, don't force things to the point that he will know you are a person and not another elk. Just let him walk. There is a good chance you can work on him another time. And maybe the next time you'll have a better setup.

[Swede]

If the bull can stay in cover or out of range in a meadow, and see where the call came from, that is what he will do. There are a couple other things you can do to avoid that problem. 1. Set up where they have to commit before they can see where you are. An example of this is a knoll or ridge that they have to come up on and are in a good position before they see where you called from. 2. In cold calling situations especially , call then quickly and quietly move just far enough that you can see the elk come, and he will not be looking to where you are. I go back to my call location to call a couple times before I move on in this situation.

[elkmtngear]

You've got some advantage here, because he didn't make you out.

I would wait until he started walking away, deploy the SLIP Decoy (that should have been open in the first place), and give a nervous grunt.

Then, I'd back out a little ways, with the decoy shielding. Plant the decoy, back away from it and get behind a tree.

Wait to see his next move

[Still Hunter]

I didn't read the posts, so I don't know if it was mentioned. This situation shouldn't have happened.

You say you picked a great spot. Then you say the bull is only 10-40yds away, and is in the worst thick stuff on the mountain. Does this make sense to you? A great spot wouldn't be in that situation. You should have a shot with a bull that close.

So, my answer is you screwed up picking the spot. Let the bull go.

[Mikeha33]

StillHunter, your post reeks of arrogance, especially to a novice elk hunter, like myself, who may think that I am in the "perfect" spot, with a significant number of shooting lanes, and a terrific patch of thick stuff to hide behind. What the elk does is out of the hunters power, but given the fact that a herd bull was brought in with a call, to within 10-40 yards, in my mind, that's a pretty darn good spot. It may not be good for a ML hunter as yourself, but being armed with a bow is a different story. To say you should have had shot with an animal that close is way off base. I've had numerous encounters with animals inside of that range, but if you're slinging an arrow, the opportunity for a good shot does not rely on the hunter, but rather the animal to put itself in a position for an ethical archery shot. When I travel for 15 hours one way, once a year, to chase these magnificent creatures, just letting the bull go isn't an option for me.

[Still Hunter]

Trophyhill is a novice hunter? That's who I was talking to. A perfect spot is going to give you room to shoot. It didn't seem that was the case.

Sorry if my honest opinion didn't meet your standards of niceness. There's a difference between an honest answer, and arrogance. You should work on that.

[cnelk]

Mikeha33

A couple things about your post.
1st - Never ever 'hide behind' a patch of thick stuff. You want to be in front of it.

2nd - You will find out that no matter how far you travel there will be times the best thing to do is let them walk.
The reasoning of 'THEY ARE GETTING AWAY' is for the inexperienced

Finding the best setup in thick timber is difficult. But you make due.
When I setup on my bull last fall, I had 2 shooting lanes. 20yds max with thick blowdowns behind me.
He walked right into the first lane and all worked out.

But Still Hunter is correct. Picking the wrong setup can be a real bitch...and will bite you.
I have been bitten many times before I learned.

[Mikeha33]

SH, I am not concerned with the niceness of your previous post, hell, I tend to not be very nice sometimes. What I was trying to emphasize (and poorly, I must add) was that these posts are made to help people learn how to react in these circumstances, and that I took it as basically calling someone who puts them self in that situation a screw-up, which essentially, is what it would have been, a screw up. But, I wouldn't know that, until I was put in the circumstance, which I mentally put myself in when I am reading the "Your Move" threads. I apologize for the poor way that I conveyed that. I enjoy reading your posts about still hunting, and am trying to learn everything I can about the different ways to conquer the beast.
About the hunt, Brad, is the only reason you don't want a patch of thick stuff in front of you simply because of the brush blocking a shot opportunity? I guess what I am having a hard time understanding, is if this bull doesn't know you're there, or what was making the sounds, and he just goes back to where he came from, then it's just best to not pursue him anymore? What do you mean by "They are getting away"?

[cnelk]

About the hunt, Brad, is the only reason you don't want a patch of thick stuff in front of you simply because of the brush blocking a shot opportunity? I guess what I am having a hard time understanding, is if this bull doesn't know you're there, or what was making the sounds, and he just goes back to where he came from, then it's just best to not pursue him anymore? What do you mean by "They are getting away"?

About the hunt, Brad, is the only reason you don't want a patch of thick stuff in front of you simply because of the brush blocking a shot opportunity?
Yes.
Having something behind you to breakup your outline is what you need. You dont need much in front as the elk typically come in from cover anyway.
Always, always set up in front of an obstacle


He just goes back to where he came from, then it's just best to not pursue him anymore?
That is correct. You know he is the area, maybe later that evening or again the next morning, I would setup again and see if I can can get him to respond

What do you mean by "They are getting away"?
You mentioned that letting the bull go isnt an option.
Sometimes it is.
I have seen many times where hunters have decided that the animal is 'getting away' and make a poor decision by shooting when they shouldnt have.
If I misunderstood your post, I apologize

[Still Hunter]

Mikeha.........I wasn't trying to sugarcoat it. I wanted to make a point that you should set yourself up to call in elk to have a shot at them. As Brad mentioned. The cover should be behind you to breakup your outline. As long as you don't move, and the wind is in your favor. You won't spook the elk. As soon as they look away. You shoot.

I'm direct and to the point. Don't take it as arrogance. That's just how old farts are.

[WapitiTalk1]

Reminder that even the best laid plans........ We've all been in situations where the set up was as good as possible in the terrain provided and bullwinkle just doesn't comply with our master plan and walk through the pre-determined shooting lanes. I think that's what Trophy was alluding to. Where I hunt is mostly choked with 10 foot high alder. Nope, it's not the best place to shoot a bull but my areas hold numerous bulls which is why I hunt there. Do I get a lot of shot opportunities? Nope. Do I get into a lot of screaming wapiti at close range? Yep, which makes my time in these areas worth while. I believe Trophy's scenario question was a good one and directed towards what action (your move) if any, a hunter may consider when a bull encounter in thick stuff does not work out, not so much was the setup the best. Perhaps it's time a "proper way to set up" thread comes up again. They are always good.

[Trophyhill]

Reminder that even the best laid plans........ We've all been in situations where the set up was as good as possible in the terrain provided and bullwinkle just doesn't comply with our master plan and walk through the pre-determined shooting lanes. I think that's what Trophy was alluding to. Where I hunt is mostly choked with 10 foot high alder. Nope, it's not the best place to shoot a bull but my areas hold numerous bulls which is why I hunt there. Do I get a lot of shot opportunities? Nope. Do I get into a lot of screaming wapiti at close range? Yep, which makes my time in these areas worth while. I believe Trophy's scenario question was a good one and directed towards what action (your move) if any, a hunter may consider when a bull encounter in thick stuff does not work out, not so much was the setup the best. Perhaps it's time a "proper way to set up" thread comes up again. They are always good.

Spot on Phantom. thanks for bringing that into perspective. i didn't want to necessarily make this thread about me or any 1 encounter that I've had. that's why i didn't get more specific on a certain encounter or a specific set up or scenario. only that i know this happens frequently when guys are hunting where the elk are and can happen in just about any scenario. elk aren't always where we think they should be nor do they always do what we think they should do. and yes, I've been a victim of my set ups at times. some from bad decisions and poor set ups and some from being a victim of elk circumstances. God i love Bowhunting elk!

[easeup]

oh so true......this scenario has happened to me a number of times even against my best planning...but the thick stuff is where we hunt and some times you just get caught by the territory and there are not many options.
One of the points that came through the discussion above is not to consider taking an ill advised shot through the tangle. I perceive the guys say to let one walk means that would be the better choice so as to try again a little later.

the other thing I caught form the elk killers here is that there is no magic formula to pull one out; every time.