ABC's and Ds of Remote Elk Country Scouting

[WapitiTalk1]

So campers, the plan is set....you'll be hunting in a western state for elk in 2014. You've narrowed down your areas you may hunt in (insert state here). What do you look for while pouring over internet mapping sites and the USGS hard copy maps you've ordered/received? Elk country is in a word, big so what specific map features/areas do you feel are worthy of your precious time in the elk woods to research and ultimately target?

[Peskadot]

This is a good one! I'm definitely interested in hearing input on this.

[flystrait]

Well anymore I will pull up the states wolf harvest for those specific zones, If they allow hunting them.

I really do understand your question RJ, BUT honestly I have seen some of the best elk habitat that used to hold a lot of elk have no more. I am specifically talking ID, and parts of MT. It's sad JMHO

Typically I will look for longer isolated east running ridges that have several fingers off of them on the north side. I look at them from afar and pick them out of a large area. They will stand out. I say longer ridge lines that takes you all day to get to and hunt because it will give you a great sample of the area for the old wapiti. There are some other key features as well but this is the biggest for me for the areas I like to hunt which are pretty steep and thick.

[Still Hunter]

For my style of hunting. I look for benches in timber areas. If they have some creeks running through them it's a gold mine for me. They also need some feeding areas near by.

Next I look to see how far the hike will be to my Jeep. It can't be too close, and if there's any ATV trails near by. I scratch the area off my list.

With that said. I never ever plan to hunt any area without putting boots on them first. I know that's difficult for a non resident, but when I came to Colorado as a NR. I came a week early to scout. Scouting is the heart of hunting.

[cnelk]

Geez
Where to start?!

First it would be access. How are you hunting?
Driving to a base camp and hunting?
Spike camp?
Horses?

Lets go with a base camp and hunting from that as that is a popular option. Then getting to the hunting area either on foot or driving a bit

I like to start at the 9000ft elevation and go up/down from there 1500ft or so.

First look at how others will be accessing the area too. Find ALL ways to get into elk country.
Hiking / horse trails, ATV / truck trails. See how they connect to ridges and valleys.
If you have a topo map, use a highlighter and mark these trails.
Hash out ~1/4 mile on each side of the marked trails, as this will show high hunter impact spots.
This is the best way to find pockets that hold game.

I also look for rolling timber with draws. In the draws, look for small openings.
Some aerial pics are clear enough to discern aspen and pine. Look for that mix.
If you see an aspen pocket in a draw, it means water.
Water means grass [and sometimes a wallow]
Grass means feed.
Timber nearby means cover.

As the ridges rise in elevation, you will see saddles between them. Each down side of the saddle can be a draw
About halfway up a ridge is where benches typically occur.

If there is private land in the vicinity, that must be factored for elk movements due to feed and/or hunting pressure

With whats available on the Internet nowadays, there is really no reason not to find some good spots that hold elk.

[cnelk]

Below is a generic topo image I found on the Internet.
It is in Colorado
It shows saddles, benches, and access routes
It is ~4 square miles and I bet there is an elk in there somewhere

Where would hunt?

[cnelk]

Below is a good example of a small opening surrounded by timber
Compare the aerial to the topo to see the small draws between ridges.

If this pic was in elk country, I would definitely know where I would hunt.
That would be the small timbered draw that goes up to a saddle

[Still Hunter]

Road looks kind of close.

[Swede]

There are a lot of things to consider. What State, then what unit, finally which spot. How you want to hunt, points for draw units, pack in vs. base camp can all factor in. As a tree stand hunter I would start with climate information for my chosen State. I prefer semi arid places where I can have limited water. I don't have any points, so I must have an otc or easy draw unit. Next I would look at the State's wildlife information and see where semi arid and higher success come together. Once I have narrowed that down, it is time to ask questions. See what you can find out on this forum and ask cnelk who else to check with. Ask about some specific areas. e.g. Wapiti Mtn., Elk Ridge, Cow meadows, etc. Tell people what you are wanting to hunt. Be specific. Is it any elk or only trophy bulls?
With that information, now I am ready to go back on Google earth and Acme Mapper and start taking down coordinates and placing dots on a map. At that point I am looking for isolated springs and water holes if possible. A stock watering pond may be great too. I would like to find a spring near a good bedding area, but if water is very limited it could be a mile from where they bed. When I have reviewed my maps and G.E., I am ready to go scout on the ground.
On the ground I will see what is really happening at the points I have picked. I will see how good of an ambush place a spot is, if the elk are there.

[WapitiTalk1]

Below is a generic topo image I found on the Internet.
It is in Colorado
It shows saddles, benches, and access routes
It is ~4 square miles and I bet there is an elk in there somewhere

Where would hunt?

Nice graphic aids cnelk. Guys/gals, if you copy this topo to your desk top then open up with 'paint' or a similar program, you can put a dot or something on spots that you think may be of interest. Mark up the topo and tell why you think there may be elk in those areas and why. This thread is designed to be interactive, not just to sit back and wait for the old salts to provide info. Come on, let's get some analysis and scouting going

[Indian Summer]

I'm going to let Brent Labere speak on my behalf. I think he knows my take. Neat to see what guys picked up from us over time and how it came together for them as a result. I want to hear it in his words. Hope he finds his way here!

[Madison COunty]

What does a drainage ditch you speak of look like on a map?

[WapitiTalk1]

What does a drainage ditch you speak of look like on a map?

Where did you see drainage ditch?

[Madison COunty]

I just hear people talk about hunting them on this form.

[WapitiTalk1]

Ok guys, before we can talk about specifics we need to learn the language. This should help with understanding the ABCs of map lingo. This will give a few of the old salts a flashback

http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/P ... ures.shtml

[WapitiTalk1]

I just hear people talk about hunting them on this form.

Ahh, got it. Drainage ditchs will look like a small stream on a topo.

[cnelk]

Thanks RJ, that saved me a lot of typing!

Drainages [no ditch] or draws can be small, just a seasonal trickle or very big, up to a mile wide or more.

[Indian Summer]

Yep... possibly seasonal so possibly no water. A "draw" is a single smaller canyon. A drainage is more like the big picture: An area made up of many draws and smaller secondary finger ridges and all of the water within ends up in a common waterway. Drainages are divided by major ridges. Elk may move about within a drainage. Bed on one side and move to the other to feed. Switch beds in that drainage etc. Eventually they may move out of it. When elk are seriously spooked that's what they do.... switch drainages altogether going over the top of the main ridge into a whole other "world".

[Mikeha33]

I won't go where any motorized vehicles are allowed. I'm putting in the effort to get away from everybody, and I won't let a guy on an ATV come flying by me, beating me to a spot or spooking animals. Also, for now, relatively close to home plays a big part. I'm sticking to CO for now, because from SE KS, its about as close I can get, and still get in the thick of it. I'll hunt Montana someday, but for now, the logistics work better for CO, and costs a lot less to drive 13 hours than 30 hours. I also looked for some of the most remote areas I could find. Only 1 road going in, and no roads anywhere for 10-15 miles, I'm interested. Further from people, and closer to God.

[BrentLaBere]

I'm going to let Brent Labere speak on my behalf. I think he knows my take. Neat to see what guys picked up from us over time and how it came together for them as a result. I want to hear it in his words. Hope he finds his way here!

I will try my best . It wont be to a "T" but with some quick home work and over view of the area I have it narrowed down to start.

What should one be looking for? Pressured animals are always harder to hunt.I am looking to get away from the main road running north and south. The ridge running north and south to the east has trails beyond the main ridge so I look to the west. Looks like there are less designated paths. In the image provided it shows a pack trail. That's the trail head or starting point (by Johnny Draw). This is where you need to extend at least a mile off of this point. Preferably over the next ridge if possible. In this scenario we have an east/west running drainage so we follow that. Off to the south we have eagle Mtn. This is where I started my map research. I looked for creek beds and actually blue line indicating seeps/springs that could provide water. I'm not only looking for blue lines because you need to see the contour separations where there is run off in the early season and hold water late. Perfect example of this is the first bowl on the north facing slope of Eagle Mountain. The top of these seeps is where you place your 'x' on the map to investigate. This ridge looks great for the high country with good saddles allowing easy transition from feeding on the south slopes to bedding on the north. Using the topo I want to now mark "like" spots or other 'X' points on the map to investigate.

[Indian Summer]

You sound like a veteran with confidence in your plan. The area looks great. Has all the ingredients. Nice post Brent!

"The top of these seeps is where you place your 'x' on the map to investigate." You could have just stopped there. That statement can hold true in many many places.

[BrentLaBere]

Ok, so here is an example of where I like to put the x to start. This goes back to thread last summer discussing where to look. Its not exactly what was said but in this game we play nothing ever is...right? Anyway, I would also like to add at the head waters is where you can find the most elk activity, the most sign. Reading Swedes book, he also talks about most likely areas to concentrate on. You may find a few game trails leading to these 'x' marks like the spokes leading to the hub on a wheel (water hole) . Correct me if I am not stating the right information on your behalf's elknuts! This is the type of information I used to find my elk this last season. First time hunting the mountain, let me tell you, it worked.

Ok, now here is a perfect example of finding water where the topo says there isnt any!

[BrentLaBere]

You sound like a veteran with confidence in your plan. The area looks great. Has all the ingredients. Nice post Brent!

"The top of these seeps is where you place your 'x' on the map to investigate." You could have just stopped there. That statement can hold true in many many places.

Thanks! Only learning from the best . And swede, I am only a little ways into your book so this I cant say for sure yet!
I do want to add a few more things I have learned and picked up on from scouting......and by that I mean internet scouting. If you are going to a new area and new to elk hunting, expect many hours pouring over maps. Use different tools as well. For example, the water hole, wasn't shown on my topo or on google earth but did show up on bing maps. Well that's great I re assured myself from a map stand point but I would still look for that spot scouting on foot or investigate while hunting. The topo map is giving you clues and you need to know what they are.

[Backcountry]

Still learning so be easy on me, lol. Based on the topo I like the looks of these saddles(red circles). I do think the saddle to the east will see less pressure while still yeilding a fairly easy hike. To the west, the green circle encompasses what I think should* be a bedding area. I would also believe that there has to be water in that big north basin that could potentially produce wallows.

map.jpg (152.4 KiB) Viewed 10250 times

[Indian Summer]

Brent man... your learning curve is like the side of Mt McKinley... up and fast!

We HAVE to use more than one tool. Topos ad Google earth aren't half as valuable without each other. One statement you made is HUGE: Finding water where the maps say there is none. If water is scarce, or all down low, AND nobody else realizes it is there, you have a gold mine. They will be there at some point in time. The place to look for it, as you have obviously found out, is in the highest reaches of the hill. It will seep out near the top before going back underground never to surface again sometimes. These spots are logged away in an elk's mind for sure. When the grasses have dried up in late summer there will still be greener more nutritious feed there along with the water. Sometimes you will find that there's not numbers elk around.... but one solitary herd bull using it all by himself.

Backcountry... right on man. You are looking at saddles. Not all saddles are created equal. The best ones stand out because they are the first forgiving spot coming down off of a steep drop. They WILL have a trail there. That doesn't mean they spend any amount of time there necessarily but it is a place to cross paths with elk or to begin to find where they are feeding or bedding. It may be part of the route to feed from bed. You guys are making some great points here!

[Mikeha33]

This sounds like a stupid question to me, especially since I sit at a PC most days, and I hate (kind of) to thread jack, but how are you guys drawing on your maps? Are you writing over them as a PDF, opening them in a different format, or what? If i could do that, that's be awesome for me to share notes/maps with my hunting parter.

[WapitiTalk1]

This sounds like a stupid question to me, especially since I sit at a PC most days, and I hate (kind of) to thread jack, but how are you guys drawing on your maps? Are you writing over them as a PDF, opening them in a different format, or what? If i could do that, that's be awesome for me to share notes/maps with my hunting parter.

Mike, there are a few ways to do what you're describing. Here's one way. Copy a topo map off Acme Mapping/Google Earth, etc. to your desktop. Open with "paint" and select one of the characters (stars, etc.) and place it on the map. Next, select the text tool and type a note by that symbol using the same color. I did a real quick one with cnelk's topo map example. See below. Another method is to merely send the grid coordinates obtained from Acme Mapper, Google Earth, GPS, etc. to your buddy in an email, text, carrier pidgeon, etc. He can plug them into his mapping site and see exactly what you're talking about.

map-topo.jpg (153.3 KiB) Viewed 10199 times

[Indian Summer]

This sounds like a stupid question to me, especially since I sit at a PC most days, and I hate (kind of) to thread jack, but how are you guys drawing on your maps? Are you writing over them as a PDF, opening them in a different format, or what? If i could do that, that's be awesome for me to share notes/maps with my hunting parter.

Nice. Someone saved me from sounding like the stupid one. Never used Paint before. Gotta try that. Thanks once again Phantom.